On 3/5/12 9:12 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:33:12 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:20:52 -0500, Happy
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 21:57:19 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:48:21 -0500,
wrote:

They said they
were gonna' do it. I know most of you here aren't bothered by the
price
of gas, but that nearly 75 extra dollars a week we are spending
is
killing us....

===

I think everyone is affected by the price of gas to one extent or
another. My suggestion to people who do a lot of driving is to
get a
more fuel efficient vehicle if at all possible. My truck is
getting
expensive at $80+ per fill up. I find it very strange that we
don't
have the large variety of small, fuel efficient diesels like they
do
in Europe. My gut feel is that it is yet another head-in-the-sand
Detroit issue. Last year we drove a full size Volkswagon diesel
van
through the mountains of France, Switzerland and northern Italy.
It
had plenty of power, seating for 6 adults, and a huge amount of
luggage space. Average fuel economy was better than 20 mpg.


Good point. If the VW diesel van had not been withdrawn from the US
market, that's probably what
we'd have been doing our camping in. Of course, the Mercedes
Sprinter is available, but they ain't
cheap.

What you just bought is way more beterer :-)

Well, it's definitely roomierer!


Lots of room to store a spare 500-gallon fuel tank? :)
Seriously, what sort of mileage do you anticipate? I hope you get at
least 10 mpg.

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:04:28 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

It's the speculators and the uncertainty of a modicum of stability
among Muslim states in the Middle East that are raising the prices of
oil.

===

In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large
petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up
sufficient future supplies.

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:37:06 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:35:14 -0500, BAR wrote:

The jury is in on electric cars. They are the future. The
problem is
that there hasn't been enough R&D to make them feasible yet.

The hybrid, gas-electric, is just a diesel-electric locomotive
downsized
with the added benefit of pulling the electricity generated from
breaking and coasting to charge the batteries. The all electric
needs
needs work with storing enough power to be useful over a longer
period
of time and distance.

===

I think we both agree on most of those points. Where we seem to
disagree is whether or not it makes sense to roll out half a
loaf.

Knowing full well the limitations of half a loaf, I still say yes.
The reason being that getting some electric cars on the road
starts to
get people thinking about the infrastucture issues (like charging
stations and better batteries). Same thing with alternative
energy
like wind and solar. If you don't start rolling some of this out
to
the public you end up with a perpetual chicken and egg syndrome
where
you can't have the chicken because you don't yet have an egg and
vice
versa. There are also a lot of people whose transportation needs
would be well served right now by a car like the Volt. The
problem
is price of course, and prices will not come down until there is
economy of scale, with the engineering and tooling costs amortized
across a wider base. I could use a Volt right now if the price
was
right. It would be great for running short errands and the like,
running on gas for the occasional longer trip.


You are 100% correct, but it just gives the far right wing the
ability
to say SEE, new technology is BAD....


Got your Cheby Volt yet? Didn't think so. Me, being moderate and
slightly right leaning, prefers to wait till the elec car matures and
shakes out most of the bugs. Buyers who must be on the bleeding edge
will pay dearly for the privilage of owning a product that ain't
quite there yet.

By the way, you are far too polarîzed. A common trait among democrats.

On 3/5/2012 9:25 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:04:28 -0500, X `
wrote:

It's the speculators and the uncertainty of a modicum of stability
among Muslim states in the Middle East that are raising the prices of
oil.

===

In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large
petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up
sufficient future supplies.


So somebody needs to explain to me why the middle east effects the
speculators and we are told that what happens here, doesn't? snerk

On 3/5/12 9:25 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:04:28 -0500, X `
wrote:

It's the speculators and the uncertainty of a modicum of stability
among Muslim states in the Middle East that are raising the prices of
oil.

===

In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large
petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up
sufficient future supplies.



I will grant what you say with this modification:

"In some cases, the speculator is the logistics manager..."

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:37:06 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:35:14 -0500, BAR wrote:

The jury is in on electric cars. They are the future. The
problem is
that there hasn't been enough R&D to make them feasible yet.

The hybrid, gas-electric, is just a diesel-electric locomotive
downsized
with the added benefit of pulling the electricity generated from
breaking and coasting to charge the batteries. The all electric
needs
needs work with storing enough power to be useful over a longer
period
of time and distance.

===

I think we both agree on most of those points. Where we seem to
disagree is whether or not it makes sense to roll out half a
loaf.

Knowing full well the limitations of half a loaf, I still say yes.
The reason being that getting some electric cars on the road
starts to
get people thinking about the infrastucture issues (like charging
stations and better batteries). Same thing with alternative
energy
like wind and solar. If you don't start rolling some of this out
to
the public you end up with a perpetual chicken and egg syndrome
where
you can't have the chicken because you don't yet have an egg and
vice
versa. There are also a lot of people whose transportation needs
would be well served right now by a car like the Volt. The
problem
is price of course, and prices will not come down until there is
economy of scale, with the engineering and tooling costs amortized
across a wider base. I could use a Volt right now if the price
was
right. It would be great for running short errands and the like,
running on gas for the occasional longer trip.


You are 100% correct, but it just gives the far right wing the
ability
to say SEE, new technology is BAD....


Got your Cheby Volt yet? Didn't think so. Me, being moderate and
slightly right leaning, prefers to wait till the elec car matures and
shakes out most of the bugs. Buyers who must be on the bleeding edge
will pay dearly for the privilage of owning a product that ain't
quite there yet.

By the way, you are far too polarîzed. A common trait among democrats.

What makes you think I'm a democrat, to start with? Also, Scotty and BAR
claim that there will never be an electric car that works!

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:19:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:
On 3/5/12 9:12 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:33:12 -0500,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:20:52 -0500, Happy

wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 21:57:19 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:48:21 -0500,

wrote:

They said they
were gonna' do it. I know most of you here aren't bothered by
the
price
of gas, but that nearly 75 extra dollars a week we are
spending
is
killing us....

===

I think everyone is affected by the price of gas to one extent
or
another. My suggestion to people who do a lot of driving is
to
get a
more fuel efficient vehicle if at all possible. My truck is
getting
expensive at $80+ per fill up. I find it very strange that we
don't
have the large variety of small, fuel efficient diesels like
they
do
in Europe. My gut feel is that it is yet another
head-in-the-sand
Detroit issue. Last year we drove a full size Volkswagon
diesel
van
through the mountains of France, Switzerland and northern
Italy.
It
had plenty of power, seating for 6 adults, and a huge amount
of
luggage space. Average fuel economy was better than 20 mpg.


Good point. If the VW diesel van had not been withdrawn from
the US
market, that's probably what
we'd have been doing our camping in. Of course, the Mercedes
Sprinter is available, but they ain't
cheap.

What you just bought is way more beterer :-)

Well, it's definitely roomierer!




Lots of room to store a spare 500-gallon fuel tank? :)
Seriously, what sort of mileage do you anticipate? I hope you get
at
least 10 mpg.

I'd be tickled pink if my barge got even close to 10 MPG.

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:58:27 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:
On 3/4/12 6:57 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:41:00 -0500, wrote:

I don't want to support Arab Oil, I want to support US Oil.
Drill here,
drill now.

Why? Apparently we already have too much, since oil companies are
exporting American oil to foreign companies in record quantities.


http://www.americanprogress.org/issu...l_exports.html

The we have achieved our goal of stopping our dependence on
foreign oil.
You lefties should be dancing in the streets.

And the Canadians want to share a pipeline to the gulf with
American
companies to ship EVERYBODY'S oil overseas, too.

Ship the oil or gasoline over seas?

Drill, drill, drill? Hell no, if it isn't staying HERE (and it
isn't).

Drill, drill, drill, sell, sell, sell, as long as they are buying
the
oil from us I don't care what they do with it.






What's the point of selling this country's natural resources
overseas? I
hope your answer isn't "making money."

Why?

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:47:44 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:37:06 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:35:14 -0500, BAR wrote:

The jury is in on electric cars. They are the future. The
problem is
that there hasn't been enough R&D to make them feasible yet.

The hybrid, gas-electric, is just a diesel-electric
locomotive
downsized
with the added benefit of pulling the electricity generated
from
breaking and coasting to charge the batteries. The all
electric
needs
needs work with storing enough power to be useful over a
longer
period
of time and distance.

===

I think we both agree on most of those points. Where we
seem to
disagree is whether or not it makes sense to roll out half a
loaf.

Knowing full well the limitations of half a loaf, I still say
yes.
The reason being that getting some electric cars on the road
starts to
get people thinking about the infrastucture issues (like
charging
stations and better batteries). Same thing with alternative
energy
like wind and solar. If you don't start rolling some of this
out
to
the public you end up with a perpetual chicken and egg
syndrome
where
you can't have the chicken because you don't yet have an egg
and
vice
versa. There are also a lot of people whose transportation
needs
would be well served right now by a car like the Volt. The
problem
is price of course, and prices will not come down until there
is
economy of scale, with the engineering and tooling costs
amortized
across a wider base. I could use a Volt right now if the
price
was
right. It would be great for running short errands and the
like,
running on gas for the occasional longer trip.


You are 100% correct, but it just gives the far right wing the
ability
to say SEE, new technology is BAD....


Got your Cheby Volt yet? Didn't think so. Me, being moderate and
slightly right leaning, prefers to wait till the elec car matures
and
shakes out most of the bugs. Buyers who must be on the bleeding
edge
will pay dearly for the privilage of owning a product that ain't
quite there yet.

By the way, you are far too polarîzed. A common trait among
democrats.


What makes you think I'm a democrat, to start with? Also, Scotty
and BAR
claim that there will never be an electric car that works!

Never say never.
I'll bet you are a fiscal conservative and a social liberal.:-)

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:51:10 -0500, oscar wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:19:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:
On 3/5/12 9:12 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:33:12 -0500,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:20:52 -0500, Happy

wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 21:57:19 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:48:21 -0500,

wrote:

They said they
were gonna' do it. I know most of you here aren't bothered by
the
price
of gas, but that nearly 75 extra dollars a week we are
spending
is
killing us....

===

I think everyone is affected by the price of gas to one extent
or
another. My suggestion to people who do a lot of driving is
to
get a
more fuel efficient vehicle if at all possible. My truck is
getting
expensive at $80+ per fill up. I find it very strange that we
don't
have the large variety of small, fuel efficient diesels like
they
do
in Europe. My gut feel is that it is yet another
head-in-the-sand
Detroit issue. Last year we drove a full size Volkswagon
diesel
van
through the mountains of France, Switzerland and northern
Italy.
It
had plenty of power, seating for 6 adults, and a huge amount
of
luggage space. Average fuel economy was better than 20 mpg.


Good point. If the VW diesel van had not been withdrawn from
the US
market, that's probably what
we'd have been doing our camping in. Of course, the Mercedes
Sprinter is available, but they ain't
cheap.

What you just bought is way more beterer :-)

Well, it's definitely roomierer!




Lots of room to store a spare 500-gallon fuel tank? :)
Seriously, what sort of mileage do you anticipate? I hope you get
at
least 10 mpg.

I'd be tickled pink if my barge got even close to 10 MPG.

I expect to get about 12-14 with the trailer. I'm considering one of these, but don't know if
they're worthwhile: http://www.bullydog.com/product.php?ID=2 I think I'll start a separate thread to
see if anyone knows anything about them.

And, BTW, I don't think Harry can ask something serious, which is why I responded to you.