On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 19:36:17 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:04:28 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

It's the speculators and the uncertainty of a modicum of stability
among Muslim states in the Middle East that are raising the prices of
oil.

===

In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large
petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up
sufficient future supplies.

Or the guy who runs a plant that runs on bunker oil. He buys oil futures
contracts to ensure that he has the resources to operate his plant at a
known cost.

===

Exact same concept. His job is to make sure the fuel is there when
needed. If there is risk he starts booking farther out and creates
an increase in demand.

On 3/5/12 8:21 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:40:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large
petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up
sufficient future supplies.



I will grant what you say with this modification:

"In some cases, the speculator is the logistics manager..."

======

Let's take an example that everyone understands. Most people fill up
the tank of their car when it starts getting low, possibly less than a
quarter of a tank give or take. However, if there is talk of a
possible shortage or a major price increase, many people would start
filling up more often, oerhaps when half full or even 3/4ths. Does
that make them speculators? The exact same thing happens with
logistics managers who are hired to ensure adequate future deliveries.
Does that cause an increse in demand and increased auction prices?
Of course it does. Does that make them speculators?


And when they sell what they bought on a futures market? They're not
speculating?

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:40:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large
petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up
sufficient future supplies.



I will grant what you say with this modification:

"In some cases, the speculator is the logistics manager..."

======

Let's take an example that everyone understands. Most people fill up
the tank of their car when it starts getting low, possibly less than a
quarter of a tank give or take. However, if there is talk of a
possible shortage or a major price increase, many people would start
filling up more often, oerhaps when half full or even 3/4ths. Does
that make them speculators? The exact same thing happens with
logistics managers who are hired to ensure adequate future deliveries.
Does that cause an increse in demand and increased auction prices?
Of course it does. Does that make them speculators?

What's your point? Most people know how commodity suppliers and
consumers lock in future prices.
The fact is speculators run the show.
70% of oil contracts are held by Wall Street banks and hedge funds.

Pure speculation by the one-percenters.
They don't produce oil or buy it in bulk.
They shuffle and trade paper to suck up money any way they can.
The 99-percent provide the money when they pay for oil.
That's the face of it.
Put all the make-up you want on it. It's still the same face.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/05/1...explains-more-
about.html

On 3/5/2012 9:33 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:33:50 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/5/2012 5:12 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 14:14:47 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

A few of the camping forum guys recommend getting the smog crap off the engine. But, they don't get
specific enough.


You mean, break the law?


"Take the smog crap off" worked in the 70s when emission control was a
clumsy add on to a conventional engine. These days the computer is
your smog control. You can certainly tune the computer for more power
and less for economy but the most efficient burn will usually also
give you the least emissions. I bet a new NASCAR racer would pass the
1975 emission controls at anything but idle speed. Fuel consumption is
important to them too.

No way... It's important but there is no way they get that good of a
burn without a catalytic converter...

If the engine was designed with a catalytic converter, you will have
problems if you take it off.

I'm pretty sure NASCAR doesn't run Cats, and he said NASCAR.. I wasn't
trying to be an ass, but I don't see NASCAR passing Emissions here in CT
anyway. Too much unburned gasoline at any RPM. And yes, I actually
posted this knowing it was Greg and if I am wrong, I will see a cite
fairly quickly

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:29:46 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 3/5/12 8:21 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:40:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large
petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up
sufficient future supplies.



I will grant what you say with this modification:

"In some cases, the speculator is the logistics manager..."

======

Let's take an example that everyone understands. Most people fill up
the tank of their car when it starts getting low, possibly less than a
quarter of a tank give or take. However, if there is talk of a
possible shortage or a major price increase, many people would start
filling up more often, oerhaps when half full or even 3/4ths. Does
that make them speculators? The exact same thing happens with
logistics managers who are hired to ensure adequate future deliveries.
Does that cause an increse in demand and increased auction prices?
Of course it does. Does that make them speculators?


And when they sell what they bought on a futures market? They're not
speculating?

===

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on their original intent and what has
happened subsequently to supply, demand and price. Just like the
stock market, a certain amount of buying and selling by intermediaries
is necessary to maintain liquidity and orderly markets.

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 19:41:51 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:40:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large
petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up
sufficient future supplies.



I will grant what you say with this modification:

"In some cases, the speculator is the logistics manager..."

======

Let's take an example that everyone understands. Most people fill up
the tank of their car when it starts getting low, possibly less than a
quarter of a tank give or take. However, if there is talk of a
possible shortage or a major price increase, many people would start
filling up more often, oerhaps when half full or even 3/4ths. Does
that make them speculators? The exact same thing happens with
logistics managers who are hired to ensure adequate future deliveries.
Does that cause an increse in demand and increased auction prices?
Of course it does. Does that make them speculators?

What's your point? Most people know how commodity suppliers and
consumers lock in future prices.
The fact is speculators run the show.
70% of oil contracts are held by Wall Street banks and hedge funds.

Pure speculation by the one-percenters.
They don't produce oil or buy it in bulk.
They shuffle and trade paper to suck up money any way they can.
The 99-percent provide the money when they pay for oil.
That's the face of it.
Put all the make-up you want on it. It's still the same face.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/05/1...explains-more-
about.html

===

Futures are bought and sold in auction markets and anyone can play.
There are exchange traded funds for smaller investors.

On 3/6/2012 2:10 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:49:23 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/5/2012 9:33 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 17:33:50 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/5/2012 5:12 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 14:14:47 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

A few of the camping forum guys recommend getting the smog crap off the engine. But, they don't get
specific enough.


You mean, break the law?


"Take the smog crap off" worked in the 70s when emission control was a
clumsy add on to a conventional engine. These days the computer is
your smog control. You can certainly tune the computer for more power
and less for economy but the most efficient burn will usually also
give you the least emissions. I bet a new NASCAR racer would pass the
1975 emission controls at anything but idle speed. Fuel consumption is
important to them too.

No way... It's important but there is no way they get that good of a
burn without a catalytic converter...

If the engine was designed with a catalytic converter, you will have
problems if you take it off.

I'm pretty sure NASCAR doesn't run Cats, and he said NASCAR.. I wasn't
trying to be an ass, but I don't see NASCAR passing Emissions here in CT
anyway. Too much unburned gasoline at any RPM. And yes, I actually
posted this knowing it was Greg and if I am wrong, I will see a cite
fairly quickly

They have ECUs running NASCAR cars and I bet they run a lot leaner
than they used to. That and the fact that they are running on ethanol
makes these as clean as the standard was in the 70s (my original
claim)
I am not sure how but my Monza passed the 75 level test in about 1980
(whenever Md started testing) without a cat. It was just the empty
can.

It's not pure ethanol, and I still doubt it would pass... You just can't
move that much material through a cylinder at that speed without a lot
of unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust, even at idle... As to your
Monza, try running it with open headers and see how it does

In article , says...

On 3/5/2012 7:31 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In , says...

On 3/4/2012 1:35 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 09:35:24 -0500, wrote:

In , says...

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2012...lectric-lemon/


Told you, and you laughed...snerk Sometimes it pays to look at the
world with an open mind...

Jeffrey Immelt, the CEO of GE who doesn't pay taxes, will have to find
another vehicle to force his people who have company cars to purchase
and drive.

http://gas2.org/2012/02/20/ge-forcin...o-chevy-volts/

===

With all due respect Bert, that sounds like a regurgitation from a
Rush Limbaugh rant. The republican party needs to put a muzzle on
that dude before he alienates every swing voter in the country.

With all due respect Wayne, the Republican party doesn't control Rush
Limbaugh and Rush Limbaugh doesn't control the Republican party. Rush
will rise or fall based upon his audience and advertisers. The
Republican party leadership has lost its way and holds no sway over the
grass roots.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz needs to be muzzled due to her alienating swing
voters. Every time she speaks she lies.

The street has people on both sides ****ing off people on the other side
of the street.

I think the jury is still out on electric cars but any program at all
which encourages energy independence is a good thing in my opinion.

The jury is in on electric cars. They are the future. The problem is
that there hasn't been enough R&D to make them feasible yet.

The hybrid, gas-electric, is just a diesel-electric locomotive downsized
with the added benefit of pulling the electricity generated from
breaking and coasting to charge the batteries. The all electric needs
needs work with storing enough power to be useful over a longer period
of time and distance.

I say as long as batteries are what they are, the jury is indeed out,
and electric cars are dead...

Want to wager a LOT of money?

Provide proof as to who you are beyond all doubt and I may make a wager.


Oh brother, Plume is reverting to the "wanna' bet" defense again...

I have decided to call it out. I will bet it if it provides me with
incontrovertible proof as to who it really is.

It will have to figure out how to get the information about itself to me
because I have put it back in the box for a while.

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 3/5/12 8:21 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:40:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large
petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up
sufficient future supplies.



I will grant what you say with this modification:

"In some cases, the speculator is the logistics manager..."

======

Let's take an example that everyone understands. Most people fill up
the tank of their car when it starts getting low, possibly less than a
quarter of a tank give or take. However, if there is talk of a
possible shortage or a major price increase, many people would start
filling up more often, oerhaps when half full or even 3/4ths. Does
that make them speculators? The exact same thing happens with
logistics managers who are hired to ensure adequate future deliveries.
Does that cause an increse in demand and increased auction prices?
Of course it does. Does that make them speculators?


And when they sell what they bought on a futures market? They're not
speculating?

We now know why you sold your dad's boat business when he died. You
haven't got a clue as to how to operate a profitable business.

I heard from an oil exec being interviewed yesterday that the oil
companies plan 20 and 30 years out. What they need is stability. They
hate the swings of oil prices just as much as the consumers because one
day the price of oil is $150 a bbl and the next day it is $50 a bbl.
With such wide fluctuations you budget goes in the toilet.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:40:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large
petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up
sufficient future supplies.



I will grant what you say with this modification:

"In some cases, the speculator is the logistics manager..."

======

Let's take an example that everyone understands. Most people fill up
the tank of their car when it starts getting low, possibly less than a
quarter of a tank give or take. However, if there is talk of a
possible shortage or a major price increase, many people would start
filling up more often, oerhaps when half full or even 3/4ths. Does
that make them speculators? The exact same thing happens with
logistics managers who are hired to ensure adequate future deliveries.
Does that cause an increse in demand and increased auction prices?
Of course it does. Does that make them speculators?

What's your point? Most people know how commodity suppliers and
consumers lock in future prices.
The fact is speculators run the show.
70% of oil contracts are held by Wall Street banks and hedge funds.

Pure speculation by the one-percenters.
They don't produce oil or buy it in bulk.
They shuffle and trade paper to suck up money any way they can.
The 99-percent provide the money when they pay for oil.
That's the face of it.
Put all the make-up you want on it. It's still the same face.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/05/1...explains-more-
about.html

Are you saying you want all commodities futures trading to be made
illegal? The farmers would revolt.