In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:48:21 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

They said they
were gonna' do it. I know most of you here aren't bothered by the price
of gas, but that nearly 75 extra dollars a week we are spending is
killing us....

===

I think everyone is affected by the price of gas to one extent or
another. My suggestion to people who do a lot of driving is to get a
more fuel efficient vehicle if at all possible. My truck is getting
expensive at $80+ per fill up. I find it very strange that we don't
have the large variety of small, fuel efficient diesels like they do
in Europe. My gut feel is that it is yet another head-in-the-sand
Detroit issue. Last year we drove a full size Volkswagon diesel van
through the mountains of France, Switzerland and northern Italy. It
had plenty of power, seating for 6 adults, and a huge amount of
luggage space. Average fuel economy was better than 20 mpg.

Is it cheaper to continue to drive the gas guzzler or is it cheaper to
acquire a fuel efficient vehicle. Where is the break-even point?

New technology bad.....FOX tell me..... Me scared.....

I have a 11 year old vehicle that costs me $200 a year in insurance and
gets 20 MPG on the highway.

Let's say I drive burn 20 gallons a month ,in the vehicle whicih about
right, at $5 a gallon. This is about $1,400 dollars a year for operating
costs. Throw in an oil change once a year and you get $1,500 rounded
off.

How long is it going to take to recover the cost of a new vehicle?

Your problem is that you don't look at the economics of the situation.
It has nothing to do with technology it has to do with my wallet.

Your problem is you think everyone drives exactly your route, your
mileage, and your vehicle.

On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:50:09 -0500, wrote:


Because it's not strategic in the long run. The energy situation has
to be viewed as a global chess game. He who finishes with the last
oil wins.

That is ridiculous. He who finishes last will be the one that has
energy resources to continue playing. Those depending on oil will be
the first ones out of the game.

===

Those depending on oil for *energy* will be the first ones out. The
real value of oil is as an industrial feedstock and high efficiency
transportation fuel (jet aviation).

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article , says...

On 3/5/2012 6:12 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:00:39 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

What about that coal or oil fired generating plant?

===

Oil fired plants are becoming very uncommon as more and more of them
have converted to natural gas. Coal is being phased out everywhere
in the US. Petroleum is becoming a transportation fuel as opposed to
a stationary power plant fuel. Natural gas will eventually become a
transportation fuel also.

Coal is not being phased out, it is being forced out by regulation.

The idea is to raise the prices so much, "green' energy seems competitive...

Cite?

You are blind or stupid, take your pick.

So, I take it you don't have any specific real life examples, so you
pull what someone else used to do here, and when confronted, call names
and insult.

In article ,
says...

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 3/5/12 2:18 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 3/5/2012 1:58 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 13:33:35 -0500, wrote:

On 3/5/2012 11:03 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:51:10 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:19:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:
On 3/5/12 9:12 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:33:12 -0500,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:20:52 -0500, Happy

wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 21:57:19 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:48:21 -0500,

wrote:

They said they
were gonna' do it. I know most of you here aren't bothered by
the
price
of gas, but that nearly 75 extra dollars a week we are
spending
is
killing us....

===

I think everyone is affected by the price of gas to one extent
or
another. My suggestion to people who do a lot of driving is
to
get a
more fuel efficient vehicle if at all possible. My truck is
getting
expensive at $80+ per fill up. I find it very strange that we
don't
have the large variety of small, fuel efficient diesels like
they
do
in Europe. My gut feel is that it is yet another
head-in-the-sand
Detroit issue. Last year we drove a full size Volkswagon
diesel
van
through the mountains of France, Switzerland and northern
Italy.
It
had plenty of power, seating for 6 adults, and a huge amount
of
luggage space. Average fuel economy was better than 20 mpg.


Good point. If the VW diesel van had not been withdrawn from
the US
market, that's probably what
we'd have been doing our camping in. Of course, the Mercedes
Sprinter is available, but they ain't
cheap.

What you just bought is way more beterer :-)

Well, it's definitely roomierer!




Lots of room to store a spare 500-gallon fuel tank? :)
Seriously, what sort of mileage do you anticipate? I hope you get
at
least 10 mpg.

I'd be tickled pink if my barge got even close to 10 MPG.

I expect to get about 12-14 with the trailer. I'm considering one
of these, but don't know if
they're worthwhile: http://www.bullydog.com/product.php?ID=2 I
think I'll start a separate thread to
see if anyone knows anything about them.

And, BTW, I don't think Harry can ask something serious, which is
why I responded to you.

If that thing can get your engine to open it's mouth wider it might be
worth the 600 bucks. Otherwise dunno what you can do.

A few of the camping forum guys recommend getting the smog crap off
the engine. But, they don't get
specific enough.

You'll void any warranty you have doing that.

IIRC, it's a federal rap too.... Maybe that's just if a garage does it...

What would Rush do?

Why don't you ask him.

Because he'd just make up lies like usual.

In article , says...

On 3/5/2012 7:12 PM, BAR wrote:
In articleCYWdnYBbwIZ0iMjSnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@earthlink .com, dump-on-
says...

On 3/5/12 2:18 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 3/5/2012 1:58 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 13:33:35 -0500, wrote:

On 3/5/2012 11:03 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:51:10 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:19:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:
On 3/5/12 9:12 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:33:12 -0500,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:20:52 -0500, Happy

wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 21:57:19 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:48:21 -0500,

wrote:

They said they
were gonna' do it. I know most of you here aren't bothered by
the
price
of gas, but that nearly 75 extra dollars a week we are
spending
is
killing us....

===

I think everyone is affected by the price of gas to one extent
or
another. My suggestion to people who do a lot of driving is
to
get a
more fuel efficient vehicle if at all possible. My truck is
getting
expensive at $80+ per fill up. I find it very strange that we
don't
have the large variety of small, fuel efficient diesels like
they
do
in Europe. My gut feel is that it is yet another
head-in-the-sand
Detroit issue. Last year we drove a full size Volkswagon
diesel
van
through the mountains of France, Switzerland and northern
Italy.
It
had plenty of power, seating for 6 adults, and a huge amount
of
luggage space. Average fuel economy was better than 20 mpg.


Good point. If the VW diesel van had not been withdrawn from
the US
market, that's probably what
we'd have been doing our camping in. Of course, the Mercedes
Sprinter is available, but they ain't
cheap.

What you just bought is way more beterer :-)

Well, it's definitely roomierer!




Lots of room to store a spare 500-gallon fuel tank? :)
Seriously, what sort of mileage do you anticipate? I hope you get
at
least 10 mpg.

I'd be tickled pink if my barge got even close to 10 MPG.

I expect to get about 12-14 with the trailer. I'm considering one
of these, but don't know if
they're worthwhile: http://www.bullydog.com/product.php?ID=2 I
think I'll start a separate thread to
see if anyone knows anything about them.

And, BTW, I don't think Harry can ask something serious, which is
why I responded to you.

If that thing can get your engine to open it's mouth wider it might be
worth the 600 bucks. Otherwise dunno what you can do.

A few of the camping forum guys recommend getting the smog crap off
the engine. But, they don't get
specific enough.

You'll void any warranty you have doing that.

IIRC, it's a federal rap too.... Maybe that's just if a garage does it...

What would Rush do?

Why don't you ask him.

Or you could ask Jon Stewart since what he said was 100 times worse...
or Chris Matthews, or: Well, read for yourself, in the words of a
prominent Liberal...

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/03/0...c-liberal-men/

As far as I am concerned anybody swiping at Rush that didn't go after
Jon Stewart or MSNBC (Like the dem senators and congressmen that go on
those shows all the time and never have the courage to call them out),
you are just another loud mouth with no concern for decency...

In my opinion, when someone condones the words that Rush used, that
person has no concern for decency or women.

In article ,
says...

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 3/5/12 7:34 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 3/5/2012 7:12 PM, BAR wrote:
In articleCYWdnYBbwIZ0iMjSnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@earthlink .com, dump-on-
says...

On 3/5/12 2:18 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 3/5/2012 1:58 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 13:33:35 -0500, wrote:

On 3/5/2012 11:03 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:51:10 -0500,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:19:14 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:
On 3/5/12 9:12 AM, Happy John wrote:
On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:33:12 -0500,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:20:52 -0500, Happy

wrote:
On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 21:57:19 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:48:21 -0500,

wrote:

They said they
were gonna' do it. I know most of you here aren't
bothered by
the
price
of gas, but that nearly 75 extra dollars a week we are
spending
is
killing us....

===

I think everyone is affected by the price of gas to one
extent
or
another. My suggestion to people who do a lot of driving is
to
get a
more fuel efficient vehicle if at all possible. My truck is
getting
expensive at $80+ per fill up. I find it very strange that we
don't
have the large variety of small, fuel efficient diesels like
they
do
in Europe. My gut feel is that it is yet another
head-in-the-sand
Detroit issue. Last year we drove a full size Volkswagon
diesel
van
through the mountains of France, Switzerland and northern
Italy.
It
had plenty of power, seating for 6 adults, and a huge amount
of
luggage space. Average fuel economy was better than 20 mpg.


Good point. If the VW diesel van had not been withdrawn from
the US
market, that's probably what
we'd have been doing our camping in. Of course, the Mercedes
Sprinter is available, but they ain't
cheap.

What you just bought is way more beterer :-)

Well, it's definitely roomierer!




Lots of room to store a spare 500-gallon fuel tank? :)
Seriously, what sort of mileage do you anticipate? I hope you get
at
least 10 mpg.

I'd be tickled pink if my barge got even close to 10 MPG.

I expect to get about 12-14 with the trailer. I'm considering one
of these, but don't know if
they're worthwhile: http://www.bullydog.com/product.php?ID=2 I
think I'll start a separate thread to
see if anyone knows anything about them.

And, BTW, I don't think Harry can ask something serious, which is
why I responded to you.

If that thing can get your engine to open it's mouth wider it
might be
worth the 600 bucks. Otherwise dunno what you can do.

A few of the camping forum guys recommend getting the smog crap off
the engine. But, they don't get
specific enough.

You'll void any warranty you have doing that.

IIRC, it's a federal rap too.... Maybe that's just if a garage does
it...

What would Rush do?

Why don't you ask him.

Or you could ask Jon Stewart since what he said was 100 times worse...
or Chris Matthews, or: Well, read for yourself, in the words of a
prominent Liberal...

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/03/0...c-liberal-men/


As far as I am concerned anybody swiping at Rush that didn't go after
Jon Stewart or MSNBC (Like the dem senators and congressmen that go on
those shows all the time and never have the courage to call them out),
you are just another loud mouth with no concern for decency...




A bull**** right-wing screed from "hot air"?

Hehehe.

If the left does it, it is ok. If the right does it, they should be
muzzled? We know how the left plays the game.

http://mrctv.org/blog/sandra-fluke-g...nt-and-health-
insurance

Ms. Fluke is a left wing radical and she got what she deserved. There
will be no lawsuit.

Just why did Ms. Fluke "deserve" being called a slut and a prostitute?

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 09:20:57 -0500, JustWait
wrote:

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2012...lectric-lemon/


Told you, and you laughed... snerk Sometimes it pays to look at the
world with an open mind...

Maybe if all of the whiny-ass neo-cons would quit badmouthing the car,
people would buy it. Maybe you WANT to continue supporting Arab Oil.

Why would we stop bad mouthing a car that is a useless pile of junk? I
have already proved that you can buy a car for $10,000 new and drive it
for hundreds of thousands of miles before you reach the acquisition cost
of a Volt.

I don't want to support Arab Oil, I want to support US Oil. Drill here,
drill now.

Oil is a finite resource. Let alone old technology.

Oil is a new technology. It is only about 170 years old.

Now that's the typical Republican response to technology!


You said the Volt was dead, obviously, you are entirely wrong again. A
five week suspension in production is hardly a death.

We will see if they restart production. They have dealers who refuse to
order Volt's and who refuse to have Volts pushed onto them. There must
be a reason that the Chevy's own dealers don't want the cars on their
lots.

Cite?

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...ers-rejection-
volt-allocation/

http://www.dailytech.com/Some+Chevro...g+on+Volt+EVs+
After+Fire+Concerns+Dwindling+Customer+Interest/article23852.htm

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/polit...-green-%E2%80%
9Cfield-dreams%E2%80%9D


And NONE of those are peer reviewed studies, so it's just hearsay and
speculation, right?

I never said they were peer reviewed studies. You wanted cites to
support my argument that Chevy dealers did not want Volt's on their lots
because they were hard to sell.

But using your standards, they have to be peer reviewed studies to be
taken seriously.

The medical profession has higher standards than the news profession, if
you can call it a profession.

So, you can use hearsay if it's not the medical profession, but if it is
the medical profession, everything has to be peer reviewed? Oh, wait, I
get it, if someone posts something that YOU don't' believe, it has to be
peer reviewed (which I did but you've still not shown me a peer reviewed
study that says second hand smoke is NOT harmful), but if you need to
prove something, then hearsay is just fine.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:37:27 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 09:35:24 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article , says...

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2012...lectric-lemon/


Told you, and you laughed... snerk Sometimes it pays to look at the
world with an open mind...

Jeffrey Immelt, the CEO of GE who doesn't pay taxes, will have to find
another vehicle to force his people who have company cars to purchase
and drive.

http://gas2.org/2012/02/20/ge-forcin...o-chevy-volts/

If my employer "forced" me to drive a company car, I wouldn't bitch
about who made it.

But maybe you feel entitled to force your employer to chose the car of
YOUR choice?

I have never had a job where my employer provided me with a car or a car
allowance.

I haven't either and if I had, I wouldn't be looking that gift horse
in the mouth.

Why would you?

It depends. My brother-in-law received a car allowance each month. The
allowance was to include the lease on the vehicle, insurance,
maintenance and fuel costs. The car he chose from the list of vehicles
was a gas pig. He was busting through hi allowance each month due to the
fuel costs.

Then why did he choose a gas pig?

It was on the list of approved vehicles.

Only gas pigs were on the list?

In article , says...

On 3/5/2012 7:20 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

In b.com,
says...

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:37:06 -0500, wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:35:14 -0500, wrote:

The jury is in on electric cars. They are the future. The
problem is
that there hasn't been enough R&D to make them feasible yet.

The hybrid, gas-electric, is just a diesel-electric locomotive
downsized
with the added benefit of pulling the electricity generated from
breaking and coasting to charge the batteries. The all electric
needs
needs work with storing enough power to be useful over a longer
period
of time and distance.

===

I think we both agree on most of those points. Where we seem to
disagree is whether or not it makes sense to roll out half a
loaf.

Knowing full well the limitations of half a loaf, I still say yes.
The reason being that getting some electric cars on the road
starts to
get people thinking about the infrastucture issues (like charging
stations and better batteries). Same thing with alternative
energy
like wind and solar. If you don't start rolling some of this out
to
the public you end up with a perpetual chicken and egg syndrome
where
you can't have the chicken because you don't yet have an egg and
vice
versa. There are also a lot of people whose transportation needs
would be well served right now by a car like the Volt. The
problem
is price of course, and prices will not come down until there is
economy of scale, with the engineering and tooling costs amortized
across a wider base. I could use a Volt right now if the price
was
right. It would be great for running short errands and the like,
running on gas for the occasional longer trip.


You are 100% correct, but it just gives the far right wing the
ability
to say SEE, new technology is BAD....


Got your Cheby Volt yet? Didn't think so. Me, being moderate and
slightly right leaning, prefers to wait till the elec car matures and
shakes out most of the bugs. Buyers who must be on the bleeding edge
will pay dearly for the privilage of owning a product that ain't
quite there yet.

By the way, you are far too polarîzed. A common trait among democrats.

What makes you think I'm a democrat, to start with? Also, Scotty and BAR
claim that there will never be an electric car that works!

I never said that there will never be an electric car. I have said that
the technology is not available at this time to make them useful. Lion
technology has a heat problem that they haven't been able to solve. You
are lucky that you can take your cellphone and computer on airplanes.
Most bulk shipments of Lion batteries have to be specially packaged or
shipped via surface carrier.

Power density and recycling are the biggest problems with electric cars
at this time. These issues will be resolved in time but, until then
someone else can be on the bleeding edge of this technology.

Plume always lies about what "we" said... It's the only way he can get
attention...

Who said "the electric car is dead"???

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 09:47:44 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:37:06 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:35:14 -0500, BAR wrote:

The jury is in on electric cars. They are the future. The
problem is
that there hasn't been enough R&D to make them feasible yet.

The hybrid, gas-electric, is just a diesel-electric
locomotive
downsized
with the added benefit of pulling the electricity generated
from
breaking and coasting to charge the batteries. The all
electric
needs
needs work with storing enough power to be useful over a
longer
period
of time and distance.

===

I think we both agree on most of those points. Where we
seem to
disagree is whether or not it makes sense to roll out half a
loaf.

Knowing full well the limitations of half a loaf, I still say
yes.
The reason being that getting some electric cars on the road
starts to
get people thinking about the infrastucture issues (like
charging
stations and better batteries). Same thing with alternative
energy
like wind and solar. If you don't start rolling some of this
out
to
the public you end up with a perpetual chicken and egg
syndrome
where
you can't have the chicken because you don't yet have an egg
and
vice
versa. There are also a lot of people whose transportation
needs
would be well served right now by a car like the Volt. The
problem
is price of course, and prices will not come down until there
is
economy of scale, with the engineering and tooling costs
amortized
across a wider base. I could use a Volt right now if the
price
was
right. It would be great for running short errands and the
like,
running on gas for the occasional longer trip.


You are 100% correct, but it just gives the far right wing the
ability
to say SEE, new technology is BAD....


Got your Cheby Volt yet? Didn't think so. Me, being moderate and
slightly right leaning, prefers to wait till the elec car matures
and
shakes out most of the bugs. Buyers who must be on the bleeding
edge
will pay dearly for the privilage of owning a product that ain't
quite there yet.

By the way, you are far too polarîzed. A common trait among
democrats.


What makes you think I'm a democrat, to start with? Also, Scotty
and BAR
claim that there will never be an electric car that works!

Never say never.
I'll bet you are a fiscal conservative and a social liberal.:-)

Most Democrats are fiscally conservative when it comes to their own
money, however, when it comes to your money they are as fiscally liberal
as they can be.

Typical unhinged far right winger, telling everybody else what they
think and what they do.