It's modern technology!!

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2RSePl/:lBqP_2kE:U!
@upUCW/mashable.com/2012/06/23/tesla-model-s-factory/

On Jun 24, 8:13*am, iBoaterer wrote:
It's modern technology!!

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2RSePl/:lBqP_2kE:U!
@upUCW/mashable.com/2012/06/23/tesla-model-s-factory/

I take it you're alsos aying it should be orgasmic for the left-
wingers?

Really...how about a boating post for once

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:50:38 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

How did we generate the electricity to charge the
batteries?

Most likely natural gas at this point in time. New driling technology
has enabled the domestic production of more natural gas than we can
currently use. Many power plants have already converted from oil or
coal and most of the rest will convert within 5 to 10 years.
Compressed natural gas (CNG) is also becoming a transportation fuel
but the distribution and retail infrastructure will take a lot of work
and investment.

What is the efficiency of the charging process?

Depends on the battery technology and the charger. On balance I
don't view it as being all that important.

Most of us are not against electric cars, we are against stupid subsidies.

I think it's safe to say that everyone is against stupid subsidies.
It is not at all clear however whether or not that is the case with
electric autos. Everyone agrees that battery technology is critical
to long term success. If subsidies can hurry along better battery
production, I view that as a good thing that will also have positive
fallout in other areas like off grid energy storage.

It is a huge mistake to politicize this issue in my opinion.

On 6/24/12 4:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:50:38 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

How did we generate the electricity to charge the
batteries?

Most likely natural gas at this point in time. New driling technology
has enabled the domestic production of more natural gas than we can
currently use. Many power plants have already converted from oil or
coal and most of the rest will convert within 5 to 10 years.
Compressed natural gas (CNG) is also becoming a transportation fuel
but the distribution and retail infrastructure will take a lot of work
and investment.

What is the efficiency of the charging process?

Depends on the battery technology and the charger. On balance I
don't view it as being all that important.

Most of us are not against electric cars, we are against stupid subsidies.

I think it's safe to say that everyone is against stupid subsidies.
It is not at all clear however whether or not that is the case with
electric autos. Everyone agrees that battery technology is critical
to long term success. If subsidies can hurry along better battery
production, I view that as a good thing that will also have positive
fallout in other areas like off grid energy storage.

It is a huge mistake to politicize this issue in my opinion.


I wonder what could be better for long-term improvement of the US
economy than to take the lead in the development of battery and other
alternative energy technology. Our daily auto transportation needs here
are pretty limited during the work week...about 15 miles each way to the
commuter bus twice a day, and then maybe another 10 miles round trip to
the commercial (supermarkets, restaurants, et cetera) district.
Add in some reserve, and an inexpensive but sturdy car that'll do
125-150 miles a day on a charge from a household charger would be very
attractive.

On 6/24/2012 4:26 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 6/24/12 4:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:50:38 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

How did we generate the electricity to charge the
batteries?

Most likely natural gas at this point in time. New driling technology
has enabled the domestic production of more natural gas than we can
currently use. Many power plants have already converted from oil or
coal and most of the rest will convert within 5 to 10 years.
Compressed natural gas (CNG) is also becoming a transportation fuel
but the distribution and retail infrastructure will take a lot of work
and investment.

What is the efficiency of the charging process?

Depends on the battery technology and the charger. On balance I
don't view it as being all that important.

Most of us are not against electric cars, we are against stupid
subsidies.

I think it's safe to say that everyone is against stupid subsidies.
It is not at all clear however whether or not that is the case with
electric autos. Everyone agrees that battery technology is critical
to long term success. If subsidies can hurry along better battery
production, I view that as a good thing that will also have positive
fallout in other areas like off grid energy storage.

It is a huge mistake to politicize this issue in my opinion.


I wonder what could be better for long-term improvement of the US
economy than to take the lead in the development of battery and other
alternative energy technology. Our daily auto transportation needs here
are pretty limited during the work week...about 15 miles each way to the
commuter bus twice a day, and then maybe another 10 miles round trip to
the commercial (supermarkets, restaurants, et cetera) district.
Add in some reserve, and an inexpensive but sturdy car that'll do
125-150 miles a day on a charge from a household charger would be very
attractive.


I think you are ready for an electric hybrid car. You have minimal
needs. So the question is which one will it be for you?

On Jun 24, 3:07*pm, Wayne.B wrote:


I think it's safe to say that everyone is against stupid subsidies.

That is, unless your the receiver of subsidies.

It is a huge mistake to politicize this issue in my opinion.

Agreed!!!

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 10:50:38 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

How did we generate the electricity to charge the
batteries?

Most likely natural gas at this point in time. New driling technology
has enabled the domestic production of more natural gas than we can
currently use. Many power plants have already converted from oil or
coal and most of the rest will convert within 5 to 10 years.
Compressed natural gas (CNG) is also becoming a transportation fuel
but the distribution and retail infrastructure will take a lot of work
and investment.

What is the efficiency of the charging process?

Depends on the battery technology and the charger. On balance I
don't view it as being all that important.

Most of us are not against electric cars, we are against stupid subsidies.

I think it's safe to say that everyone is against stupid subsidies.
It is not at all clear however whether or not that is the case with
electric autos. Everyone agrees that battery technology is critical
to long term success. If subsidies can hurry along better battery
production, I view that as a good thing that will also have positive
fallout in other areas like off grid energy storage.

It is a huge mistake to politicize this issue in my opinion.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
I think it is already politicized. As to efficiency, that is a big
question and problem. We are losing about 8-10% in line loss now, just
getting the power distributed. We are maximum generating capacity in a lot
of areas. with the huge growth in electronics usage, we have not kept up
with power generation. We use a lot of natural gas in generation but lots
and lots of coal, which is a fairly dirty source. Lots of Radon gas
released in mining, and we better have great scrubbers on the stacks. Most
of the mercury in fish from the open ocean is from the Chinese coal burning
plants. No scrubbers, and mercury is an off shoot of burning coal. Both
better battery technology is required for better charging operation and for
higher power density in the battery. If you use a flooded cell battery, you
are going to be using tons of battery to get distance. The higher tech
batteries still are going to have huge weight for enough KWH's to run a car
a long distance.

wrote in message ...


You are making the same argument that automobiles will never replace
horses. Electricity is likely to be the next fuel, but one thing is a
sure thing: petroleum is going out.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Not for quite a while, I don't think.

Electricity and battery powered automobiles are simply examples of
energy generated by other means
and converted to electricity and/or stored in batteries. If the
current fascination with
"green", electric powered cars grows, we will see the cost of
generating the energy required
to charge them rise. The bulk of raw energy is still in the form of
fossil fuels and the conversion
process adds additional energy and cost requirements.

Those who think they are being "green" by driving a battery powered
car have been fed a
line of BS. It might make them feel good or give them some sense of
being environmentally
friendly, but the truth is they are more environmentally "unfriendly"
than friendly.
Lithium Ion batteries are the best technology we have to date and they
are an environmental
hazard the likes of which we haven't yet to fully experience.

Solar and wind can't come close to meeting the demand and nuclear is
still a political
hot potato. Here's where the energy used to produce electricity in
the USA comes from:

http://mapawatt.com/wp-content/uploa...table_2010.gif

Eisboch

On 6/25/2012 5:44 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:02:29 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



wrote in message ...


You are making the same argument that automobiles will never replace
horses. Electricity is likely to be the next fuel, but one thing is a
sure thing: petroleum is going out.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Not for quite a while, I don't think.

Electricity and battery powered automobiles are simply examples of
energy generated by other means
and converted to electricity and/or stored in batteries. If the
current fascination with
"green", electric powered cars grows, we will see the cost of
generating the energy required
to charge them rise. The bulk of raw energy is still in the form of
fossil fuels and the conversion
process adds additional energy and cost requirements.

Those who think they are being "green" by driving a battery powered
car have been fed a
line of BS. It might make them feel good or give them some sense of
being environmentally
friendly, but the truth is they are more environmentally "unfriendly"
than friendly.
Lithium Ion batteries are the best technology we have to date and they
are an environmental
hazard the likes of which we haven't yet to fully experience.

Solar and wind can't come close to meeting the demand and nuclear is
still a political
hot potato. Here's where the energy used to produce electricity in
the USA comes from:

http://mapawatt.com/wp-content/uploa...table_2010.gif

Eisboch

All of that seems quite obvious. Batteries will likely NOT be the most
efficient storage medium, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be
used in the interim.

Oil is on its way out. Period.

Unless somebody can give me a viable alternative, I'm sticking with
electricity as the next fuel.


Electricity is a product made from mostly fossil fuels.

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:02:29 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



wrote in message ...


You are making the same argument that automobiles will never replace
horses. Electricity is likely to be the next fuel, but one thing is a
sure thing: petroleum is going out.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Not for quite a while, I don't think.

Electricity and battery powered automobiles are simply examples of
energy generated by other means
and converted to electricity and/or stored in batteries. If the
current fascination with
"green", electric powered cars grows, we will see the cost of
generating the energy required
to charge them rise. The bulk of raw energy is still in the form of
fossil fuels and the conversion
process adds additional energy and cost requirements.

Those who think they are being "green" by driving a battery powered
car have been fed a
line of BS. It might make them feel good or give them some sense of
being environmentally
friendly, but the truth is they are more environmentally "unfriendly"
than friendly.
Lithium Ion batteries are the best technology we have to date and they
are an environmental
hazard the likes of which we haven't yet to fully experience.

Solar and wind can't come close to meeting the demand and nuclear is
still a political
hot potato. Here's where the energy used to produce electricity in
the USA comes from:

http://mapawatt.com/wp-content/uploa...table_2010.gif

Eisboch

All of that seems quite obvious. Batteries will likely NOT be the most
efficient storage medium, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be
used in the interim.

Oil is on its way out. Period.

Oil isn't on the way out. The infrastructure is all oil based from
acquisition, to refining, to distribution and finally to consumption.
When you can put 8,000 gallons of gas or diesel in a tanker and take it
to where you need it for 24 hour a day use in almost any weather
condition batteries can't perform like that and neither can solar or
wind.

If people are there then the oil can get there.

Unless somebody can give me a viable alternative, I'm sticking with
electricity as the next fuel.

Water produces electricity.
Coal produces electricity.
Solar produces electricity.
Wind produces electricity.
Oil produces electricity.
Nuclear produces electricity.

Electricity is a method of delivery and consumption it is not a fuel.