On 5/17/13 10:46 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 08:42:24 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I think the government ought to terminate the contract with KBR on 90
days notice, and let the contractors sue. Screw 'em.

And put our military people back in there to keep the place stable?



The place isn't stable and won't be.

On 5/17/2013 12:02 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 5/17/13 10:42 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 06:57:25 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 5/16/13 11:20 PM, wrote:


The thing most people don't know or chose to ignore is that our
withdrawal from Iraq was only the DoD people. We left 20,000-30,000
"contractors" there to do what the military was doing. It is good for
the government because dead contractors don't come home to Dover in
flag draped coffins.
It is not any cheaper tho.

I suppose the real question is whether we have any reason to be there
in the first place.



Many of the "contractors" are in Iraq because of greed, and nothing
more. If they come home dead, it is because they were willing to take
the risk for the money. I doubt most uniformed military personnel joined
up because of the money.

greed? now being paid is greed? People join the military for the same
reason they become firemen, police or teachers. It is a job they can
get with their qualifications. They become contractors because the pay
is a bit better usually because of their military training.
If folks like you had not ended the draft, we would not need contract
soldiers.


I didn't end the draft. The draft was terminated during a Republican
administration. I protested the war against Vietnam, but never the draft.

In what manner did you protest?

On 5/17/13 12:35 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:02:44 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 5/17/13 10:42 AM, wrote:

If folks like you had not ended the draft, we would not need contract
soldiers.


I didn't end the draft. The draft was terminated during a Republican
administration. I protested the war against Vietnam, but never the draft.

My mistake. I was sure you were against the draft or just about
anything else military.

So you agree, we should reinstate the draft.
If we had that much conscripted labor in the military, we could get
away from most, if not all, of the contracting.


I favor two years of universal service. That could be fulfilled in the
military or in other ways deemed important by society.

I don't have much use for the military "establishment" because of its
self-perpetuating nature, its affinity for war, and the weak-wristed way
it cares for the short and long term needs of those who are injured. War
creates billets for officer and NCO promotions and opportunities for
profiteering by defense contractor establishments. My disdain for the
establishments, however, doesn't mean I lack respect for honorable
individuals who wear the uniform and risk their necks.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:48:42 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:


They are attempting to do that sort of thing, along with trying to
maintain peace in a place that has been on the edge of civil war for a
decade. I suppose we could just get pout but if we do that we should
do it everywhere in the middle east and let the big dog eat.

I doubt Israel would last long tho ... at least without starting a
nuclear war.

If not for oil, I have no idea why we'd try to change the middle east to
a Christian society. Imagine what would happen in this country if a
massive military came here and said, hey, we don't like your religion,
so from now on, we want you to be Hindus.

I don't how of any attempt to convert the people of the middle east to
christianity'

Cite that.

If anything we are propping up Judaism.
Our involvement there has more to do with Israel than Oil.
If it was just Oil we would have invaded Nigeria or Venezuela where we
get a lot more oil.

WTF do you think an "American type of democracy" would be???

http://tinyurl.com/6ofbm2c
http://tinyurl.com/6e9ao4

On 5/17/13 1:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:45:13 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I favor two years of universal service. That could be fulfilled in the
military or in other ways deemed important by society.

I agree 100%. In fact it could really just be a year in some programs
but it should be based on a military model of discipline and
responsibility.

If for no other reason, I liked the military because it made me a
better student. I went from being the "do enough to get by" guy I was
in high school to a guy who wanted to be at the top of my class at
everything I did. The military schools make that a thing worth doing,
Maybe this could also encompass an apprenticeship program if the
thrust of your "service" was in patching up our crumbling
infrastructure. (a worthwhile objective)
The problem is, you could never get this by the unions.


It takes more than a year in an apprenticeship program to learn the sort
of skills necessary to do most heavy and highway, aka, infrastructure,
work. Most of the skilled unions offer three to five year
apprenticeships, half classroom and half work on the job under
supervision. Absolute newcomers usually go through a 12-week job corps
center with union instructors so the students can learn proper job
skills, safety procedures and discipline.

On 5/17/13 3:23 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 14:41:48 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 5/17/13 1:08 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 12:45:13 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I favor two years of universal service. That could be fulfilled in the
military or in other ways deemed important by society.

I agree 100%. In fact it could really just be a year in some programs
but it should be based on a military model of discipline and
responsibility.

If for no other reason, I liked the military because it made me a
better student. I went from being the "do enough to get by" guy I was
in high school to a guy who wanted to be at the top of my class at
everything I did. The military schools make that a thing worth doing,
Maybe this could also encompass an apprenticeship program if the
thrust of your "service" was in patching up our crumbling
infrastructure. (a worthwhile objective)
The problem is, you could never get this by the unions.


It takes more than a year in an apprenticeship program to learn the sort
of skills necessary to do most heavy and highway, aka, infrastructure,
work. Most of the skilled unions offer three to five year
apprenticeships, half classroom and half work on the job under
supervision. Absolute newcomers usually go through a 12-week job corps
center with union instructors so the students can learn proper job
skills, safety procedures and discipline.


A military training program goes a lot faster than that. The
difference is the slow pokes get kicked out of the program and get to
do a more menial job. That is not the union way. There is the
objective of limiting the number of journeymen to artificially keep
labor costs high.


Your knowledge of the skilled trade apprenticeship programs is not up to
snuff.

On 5/17/2013 12:02 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:

I didn't end the draft. The draft was terminated during a Republican
administration. I protested the war against Vietnam, but never the
draft.

---------------------------------------------

I have a question that might be difficult to answer objectively, given
the years that have transpired.

You have mentioned before that you had a high draft number which was
never called. I assume at the time you were a young man in his late
teens, more likely in your early 20's.

Had your number been called, would you have reported as ordered?
Not how you feel now .... how you felt then.

On 5/17/13 4:32 PM, Eisboch wrote:




On 5/17/2013 12:02 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:

I didn't end the draft. The draft was terminated during a Republican
administration. I protested the war against Vietnam, but never the draft.

---------------------------------------------

I have a question that might be difficult to answer objectively, given
the years that have transpired.

You have mentioned before that you had a high draft number which was
never called. I assume at the time you were a young man in his late
teens, more likely in your early 20's.

Had your number been called, would you have reported as ordered? Not
how you feel now .... how you felt then.




Absolutely, I would have reported for a pre-induction physical and if I
were judged proper cannon fodder, I would have been in the Army, I
guess. But I was never called, even though all the years I was of draft
age, I regularly sent my draft board a registered, return receipt letter
informing it of my current status and address. My problem wasn't with
the draft, it was with the moronic war against the Vietnamese people.

Most young men of draft age were not drafted.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 5/17/13 4:32 PM, Eisboch wrote:




On 5/17/2013 12:02 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:

I didn't end the draft. The draft was terminated during a
Republican
administration. I protested the war against Vietnam, but never the
draft.

---------------------------------------------

I have a question that might be difficult to answer objectively,
given
the years that have transpired.

You have mentioned before that you had a high draft number which was
never called. I assume at the time you were a young man in his
late
teens, more likely in your early 20's.

Had your number been called, would you have reported as ordered?
Not
how you feel now .... how you felt then.




Absolutely, I would have reported for a pre-induction physical and if
I
were judged proper cannon fodder, I would have been in the Army, I
guess. But I was never called, even though all the years I was of
draft
age, I regularly sent my draft board a registered, return receipt
letter
informing it of my current status and address. My problem wasn't with
the draft, it was with the moronic war against the Vietnamese people.

Most young men of draft age were not drafted.

---------------------------------------------------------

Thanks. Most of us felt that way at the time. Hindsight over the
years may change one's views but at the time it was the honorable
thing to do.
I almost got drafted. Well, actually I guess I did. But at the
advice of a retired Navy Captain, I beat feet down to the Navy
recruiter's office. Signed up and was told to "burn" my draft notice
letter and card if I so desired. I saved them for years but are now
long lost.

On 5/18/13 1:58 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 17:00:40 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 5/17/13 4:32 PM, Eisboch wrote:




On 5/17/2013 12:02 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:

I didn't end the draft. The draft was terminated during a Republican
administration. I protested the war against Vietnam, but never the draft.

---------------------------------------------

I have a question that might be difficult to answer objectively, given
the years that have transpired.

You have mentioned before that you had a high draft number which was
never called. I assume at the time you were a young man in his late
teens, more likely in your early 20's.

Had your number been called, would you have reported as ordered? Not
how you feel now .... how you felt then.




Absolutely, I would have reported for a pre-induction physical and if I
were judged proper cannon fodder, I would have been in the Army, I
guess. But I was never called, even though all the years I was of draft
age, I regularly sent my draft board a registered, return receipt letter
informing it of my current status and address. My problem wasn't with
the draft, it was with the moronic war against the Vietnamese people.

Most young men of draft age were not drafted.


I bet you were 2-S most of that time.
They did not draft people in school


I did what I was supposed to do in my local draft board. I was not
disappointed I was never ordered to report for a pre-induction physical.