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#1
posted to rec.boats
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Thank you so much...
....former President Bush and former Vice President Cheney:
KBR Tells U.S. Army it will Cost $500 Million and Take 13 Years to Close out Its Iraq Contract The recipient of the largest government services contract in U.S. history has told military officials it will take another 13 years and half a billion dollars to finish off its work stemming from the Iraq war. This assessment from KBR Inc., which won the $38 billion deal from the U.S. Army way back in 2001, is at the heart of a legal battle between the two sides. KBR was responsible for aiding virtually all American military support operations as part of the Logistics Civil Augmentation Program (LOGCAP) III in Iraq. With the conflict over and the pullout of combat units, the Pentagon sought to alter the terms of payment for the remainder of the contract. U.S. Defense Department officials want to pay KBR a fixed amount for what’s left to do (which could save it hundreds of millions of dollars), while the company wants to be reimbursed for its efforts, which has been the case since the deal was arranged last decade. The Army’s move to implement the change prompted KBR to sue in court, where its lawyers argued that the remaining duties will cost $500 million and take 13 years to complete. Emails exchanged between the two sides were presented as part of the litigation, allowing Charles Tiefer, professor of government contracting at the University of Baltimore and a member of the Commission on Wartime Contracting, to review them. His take on the communications? “The emails show things have gotten very nasty between KBR and the Defense Department,” Tiefer told the Federal Times. “The emails show that the Defense Department, in its dealings with KBR, feels like it’s wrestling with a giant python,” he added. “The kind of willingness to work with KBR that you saw for a number of years during the Iraq War has completely gone.” - - - Wow. KBR ought to go into the banking and stock brokerage business... |
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#2
posted to rec.boats
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Thank you so much...
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#3
posted to rec.boats
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Thank you so much...
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#5
posted to rec.boats
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Thank you so much...
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/17/13 8:04 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/16/13 11:20 PM, wrote: The thing most people don't know or chose to ignore is that our withdrawal from Iraq was only the DoD people. We left 20,000-30,000 "contractors" there to do what the military was doing. It is good for the government because dead contractors don't come home to Dover in flag draped coffins. It is not any cheaper tho. I suppose the real question is whether we have any reason to be there in the first place. Many of the "contractors" are in Iraq because of greed, and nothing more. If they come home dead, it is because they were willing to take the risk for the money. I doubt most uniformed military personnel joined up because of the money. ---------------------------------------------------------- I continue to find it incredulous that so many people or businesses engaged in providing a service or product for profit is doing so due to "greed" according to you. The goal of any person or business should be to earn more money than they spend. In personal finances, the extra can be applied to improvements in life style, education of family members and a nest egg for retirement. In business it affords growth, expansion, higher employment and job security. Some do it better than others, but without profits, we all may as well let the government define what standard of living is allowed, what education we receive, what health care is enough and what is a socially acceptable retirement income. Maybe that's your idea of utopia, but it's certainly not mine. The topic started out with an example of how a private contractor was trying to screw the federal government out of billions of dollars. "Greed" would be a mild descriptor. It then devolved to the "contractors" who went to Iraq to make more money than they could guarding buildings than they could at home, and how some of those non-military personnel are getting killed. My comment was that these non-military contractors were there for the big bucks, and that getting killed was part of their equation. That's a lot different than the motivation for a typical soldier, who isn't enlisting for "the big bucks." ------------------------------------------------------------- My point is that how a person or private contractor earns money is their business as long as it's lawful. Obviously a contract with the government was involved. If you feel the contractors are "greedy" maybe the fault lies with whatever government agency signed the contract. Personally, if I were to consider going to Iraq as a private contractor for hire and risk my life, I'd only do it for BIG bucks. But I wouldn't do it. You couldn't pay me enough. |
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#6
posted to rec.boats
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Thank you so much...
On 5/17/13 8:34 AM, Eisboch wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/17/13 8:04 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/16/13 11:20 PM, wrote: The thing most people don't know or chose to ignore is that our withdrawal from Iraq was only the DoD people. We left 20,000-30,000 "contractors" there to do what the military was doing. It is good for the government because dead contractors don't come home to Dover in flag draped coffins. It is not any cheaper tho. I suppose the real question is whether we have any reason to be there in the first place. Many of the "contractors" are in Iraq because of greed, and nothing more. If they come home dead, it is because they were willing to take the risk for the money. I doubt most uniformed military personnel joined up because of the money. ---------------------------------------------------------- I continue to find it incredulous that so many people or businesses engaged in providing a service or product for profit is doing so due to "greed" according to you. The goal of any person or business should be to earn more money than they spend. In personal finances, the extra can be applied to improvements in life style, education of family members and a nest egg for retirement. In business it affords growth, expansion, higher employment and job security. Some do it better than others, but without profits, we all may as well let the government define what standard of living is allowed, what education we receive, what health care is enough and what is a socially acceptable retirement income. Maybe that's your idea of utopia, but it's certainly not mine. The topic started out with an example of how a private contractor was trying to screw the federal government out of billions of dollars. "Greed" would be a mild descriptor. It then devolved to the "contractors" who went to Iraq to make more money than they could guarding buildings than they could at home, and how some of those non-military personnel are getting killed. My comment was that these non-military contractors were there for the big bucks, and that getting killed was part of their equation. That's a lot different than the motivation for a typical soldier, who isn't enlisting for "the big bucks." ------------------------------------------------------------- My point is that how a person or private contractor earns money is their business as long as it's lawful. Obviously a contract with the government was involved. If you feel the contractors are "greedy" maybe the fault lies with whatever government agency signed the contract. Personally, if I were to consider going to Iraq as a private contractor for hire and risk my life, I'd only do it for BIG bucks. But I wouldn't do it. You couldn't pay me enough. I think the government ought to terminate the contract with KBR on 90 days notice, and let the contractors sue. Screw 'em. As for the private guards who go to Iraq for the big bucks, as I stated, they are going there for the money and if they get killed, it isn't as if they were military volunteers who went there. I don't feel a sense of loss or sorrow for the moneygrubbing paramilitary types if they come home in a box. |
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#7
posted to rec.boats
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Thank you so much...
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/17/13 8:34 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/17/13 8:04 AM, Eisboch wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 5/16/13 11:20 PM, wrote: The thing most people don't know or chose to ignore is that our withdrawal from Iraq was only the DoD people. We left 20,000-30,000 "contractors" there to do what the military was doing. It is good for the government because dead contractors don't come home to Dover in flag draped coffins. It is not any cheaper tho. I suppose the real question is whether we have any reason to be there in the first place. Many of the "contractors" are in Iraq because of greed, and nothing more. If they come home dead, it is because they were willing to take the risk for the money. I doubt most uniformed military personnel joined up because of the money. ---------------------------------------------------------- I continue to find it incredulous that so many people or businesses engaged in providing a service or product for profit is doing so due to "greed" according to you. The goal of any person or business should be to earn more money than they spend. In personal finances, the extra can be applied to improvements in life style, education of family members and a nest egg for retirement. In business it affords growth, expansion, higher employment and job security. Some do it better than others, but without profits, we all may as well let the government define what standard of living is allowed, what education we receive, what health care is enough and what is a socially acceptable retirement income. Maybe that's your idea of utopia, but it's certainly not mine. The topic started out with an example of how a private contractor was trying to screw the federal government out of billions of dollars. "Greed" would be a mild descriptor. It then devolved to the "contractors" who went to Iraq to make more money than they could guarding buildings than they could at home, and how some of those non-military personnel are getting killed. My comment was that these non-military contractors were there for the big bucks, and that getting killed was part of their equation. That's a lot different than the motivation for a typical soldier, who isn't enlisting for "the big bucks." ------------------------------------------------------------- My point is that how a person or private contractor earns money is their business as long as it's lawful. Obviously a contract with the government was involved. If you feel the contractors are "greedy" maybe the fault lies with whatever government agency signed the contract. Personally, if I were to consider going to Iraq as a private contractor for hire and risk my life, I'd only do it for BIG bucks. But I wouldn't do it. You couldn't pay me enough. I think the government ought to terminate the contract with KBR on 90 days notice, and let the contractors sue. Screw 'em. As for the private guards who go to Iraq for the big bucks, as I stated, they are going there for the money and if they get killed, it isn't as if they were military volunteers who went there. I don't feel a sense of loss or sorrow for the moneygrubbing paramilitary types if they come home in a box. ----------------------------------- Interesting. Many of the paramilitary types are former military types who can't find employment back at home. I'd have a sense of sorrow for anyone who got killed trying to do their job. As for KBR contracts, most major government contracts have termination clauses in them. I used to deal with them in both direct government contracts and in contracts with major defense contractors like Raytheon, Lockheed and others. The termination clauses are typically not negotiable as they are structured for the convenience of the government. Heck, even a simple thing like my military obligation was extended for two months beyond my "contract" for "the convenience of the government". I wasn't too happy about that but there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. So, it works both ways. |
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#8
posted to rec.boats
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Thank you so much...
On 5/17/13 8:53 AM, Eisboch wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message I think the government ought to terminate the contract with KBR on 90 days notice, and let the contractors sue. Screw 'em. As for the private guards who go to Iraq for the big bucks, as I stated, they are going there for the money and if they get killed, it isn't as if they were military volunteers who went there. I don't feel a sense of loss or sorrow for the moneygrubbing paramilitary types if they come home in a box. ----------------------------------- Interesting. Many of the paramilitary types are former military types who can't find employment back at home. I'd have a sense of sorrow for anyone who got killed trying to do their job. I'd of course feel a loss if and when these paramilitary contractors were engaged in humanitarian efforts, such as guarding a convoy of supplies heading to a clinic, or a convoy of food heading to a village. or guarding a hospital. |
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#9
posted to rec.boats
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Thank you so much...
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#10
posted to rec.boats
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Thank you so much...
On 5/17/13 10:42 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 17 May 2013 06:57:25 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 5/16/13 11:20 PM, wrote: The thing most people don't know or chose to ignore is that our withdrawal from Iraq was only the DoD people. We left 20,000-30,000 "contractors" there to do what the military was doing. It is good for the government because dead contractors don't come home to Dover in flag draped coffins. It is not any cheaper tho. I suppose the real question is whether we have any reason to be there in the first place. Many of the "contractors" are in Iraq because of greed, and nothing more. If they come home dead, it is because they were willing to take the risk for the money. I doubt most uniformed military personnel joined up because of the money. greed? now being paid is greed? People join the military for the same reason they become firemen, police or teachers. It is a job they can get with their qualifications. They become contractors because the pay is a bit better usually because of their military training. If folks like you had not ended the draft, we would not need contract soldiers. I didn't end the draft. The draft was terminated during a Republican administration. I protested the war against Vietnam, but never the draft. |
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