"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...


Ducati produces beautifully made motorcycles that are super fast,
handle
well, and are reliable. I've had Honda and Kawasaki motorcycles and
have
found their reliability no different than "The Duc."

---------------------------------

I think the reliability of all modern vehicles .... cars, trucks,
motorcycles and even boats .... are vastly improved over the ones
produced 20 or 30 years ago. Only problem is, they have become so
complex that they can't usually be worked on by us "shade tree
mechanics" of yesterday.

I just bought a 2002 Saturn for a local "kick around" car. It's
about as basic as you can get but the price was right and it's in
amazingly good condition.
Looks new ... even the interior is spotless.

But, the AC didn't work. Popping the hood I noticed that the clutch
on the AC compressor wasn't pulling in. I had a old Pontiac LeMans
(probably a '65 or thereabouts) years ago in Puerto Rico that had the
same problem. Something was messed up in the controls that engaged
the clutch. I simply hotwired a fused and switched wire from the
battery to the clutch connector and it worked fine, except I had to
remember to cycle it on and off. Not so on the Saturn.

Now they have a pressure transducer that senses both the high and low
pressure sides of the AC system. If either are out of spec, it
doesn't allow the clutch to pull in. Ok. So, I figured maybe it
needed a charge and headed off to Auto Zone and bought one of those
DIY charging kits. Sure enough, the low pressure side was low when
measured with the included gauge. I carefully and faithfully
followed the directions on how to charge it. But it didn't make
sense because the clutch wouldn't engage. Tried it several times
getting the low side up to the specified pressure reading without
success. So, out comes the multimeter and I started checking all the
voltage points. Everything is fine, except no power to the clutch.
I was about to give up and do the "hot wire" thing to see if the
clutch worked at all but decided to Google the wiring schematics for
the Saturn's AC system. Turns out there's a diode in the fuse box
that is supposed to protect the AC fuse from spikes in the line when
the clutch disengages. Checked it in forward and reversed biased
positions and it was shorted. Back to AutoZone and got a new diode,
thinking I had found the problem. Still didn't work, so I decided to
give the recharge one more try. This time I ignored the warnings
about overcharging and brought the pressure up above above the
specified level. That did it. The clutch suddenly engaged and the
tank of R134A started getting cold, meaning the AC system was drawing
the refrigerant out of the tank and the low side pressure dropped to
within the specified range.

Within 5 minutes the car vents were blowing nice, ice cold air and I
felt pretty proud of myself. Rechecked the new diode and it's fine,
so hopefully it will keep working.

"Eisboch" wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ...


Ducati produces beautifully made motorcycles that are super fast, handle
well, and are reliable. I've had Honda and Kawasaki motorcycles and have
found their reliability no different than "The Duc."

---------------------------------

I think the reliability of all modern vehicles .... cars, trucks,
motorcycles and even boats .... are vastly improved over the ones
produced 20 or 30 years ago. Only problem is, they have become so
complex that they can't usually be worked on by us "shade tree mechanics" of yesterday.

I just bought a 2002 Saturn for a local "kick around" car. It's about
as basic as you can get but the price was right and it's in amazingly good condition.
Looks new ... even the interior is spotless.

But, the AC didn't work. Popping the hood I noticed that the clutch on
the AC compressor wasn't pulling in. I had a old Pontiac LeMans
(probably a '65 or thereabouts) years ago in Puerto Rico that had the
same problem. Something was messed up in the controls that engaged the
clutch. I simply hotwired a fused and switched wire from the battery to
the clutch connector and it worked fine, except I had to remember to
cycle it on and off. Not so on the Saturn.

Now they have a pressure transducer that senses both the high and low
pressure sides of the AC system. If either are out of spec, it doesn't
allow the clutch to pull in. Ok. So, I figured maybe it needed a
charge and headed off to Auto Zone and bought one of those DIY charging
kits. Sure enough, the low pressure side was low when measured with the
included gauge. I carefully and faithfully followed the directions on
how to charge it. But it didn't make sense because the clutch wouldn't
engage. Tried it several times getting the low side up to the specified
pressure reading without success. So, out comes the multimeter and I
started checking all the voltage points. Everything is fine, except no
power to the clutch. I was about to give up and do the "hot wire" thing
to see if the clutch worked at all but decided to Google the wiring
schematics for the Saturn's AC system. Turns out there's a diode in the
fuse box that is supposed to protect the AC fuse from spikes in the line
when the clutch disengages. Checked it in forward and reversed biased
positions and it was shorted. Back to AutoZone and got a new diode,
thinking I had found the problem. Still didn't work, so I decided to
give the recharge one more try. This time I ignored the warnings about
overcharging and brought the pressure up above above the specified level.
That did it. The clutch suddenly engaged and the tank of R134A started
getting cold, meaning the AC system was drawing the refrigerant out of
the tank and the low side pressure dropped to within the specified range.

Within 5 minutes the car vents were blowing nice, ice cold air and I felt
pretty proud of myself. Rechecked the new diode and it's fine, so
hopefully it will keep working.

You are waywayway beyond my car mechanic abilities... 😄

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ...



You are waywayway beyond my car mechanic abilities... 😄

--------------------------------------

Trust me, I am *NO* mechanic. I usually get frustrated and end up
breaking something.

But it was kinda fun. Mrs.E. even got a big kick out of watching my
efforts and actually became a little emotional. Back in our younger
days raising kids, etc., we could never afford a new car so I was
always spending half the weekends fixing up (as best I could)
whatever car or cars we had just so I could get to work again the
following week. But as the years went by and financial situations
changed, the old cars became a thing of the past, replaced with easy
to buy new ones. I've certainly had my share and then some of nice,
new fancy cars. But I've lost interest in them now. I actually got
a big kick out of searching for an older car that I could "fix up" and
use for local driving instead of using the truck all the time and I
got a weird sense of accomplishment in fixing the AC system and
installing new front rotors and brake pads on it. Something I haven't
felt for many years.

wrote in message ...

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 21:05:56 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:




Trust me, I am *NO* mechanic. I usually get frustrated and end up
breaking something.


You still don't know where the gas went. You will be back.

-----------------------------------------

That's true. Might have a major leak and the charge will be gone
again soon. But maybe not. It was not completely discharged. It was
just low .... about 20 psi on the low side. Should be about 36 to 40
psi. From Googling about this, apparently if an AC compressor isn't
run for a long time the seals will harden and leak. The car I bought
had been sitting for almost a year without being started or used.

The recharge "kit" refrigerant contains a lubricant and a "seal
conditioner" that is advertised to stop the leaks caused from non-use,
assuming the seal is not destroyed. They also sell replacement seals
and a UV dye and light kit that you can hunt the leak down with. I
talked to a couple of people, including my son who have recharged
their systems using the DIY kit. Been a couple of years now and their
systems are still working fine. I'll just cross my fingers. If the
compressor itself is bad (which I doubt, because it's working fine
now), a rebuilt one is $194. The recharge kit with gauge is only
$34. Even if I have to do it once a year, it's worth it.

On 6/10/2013 9:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 21:05:56 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ...



You are waywayway beyond my car mechanic abilities... ?

--------------------------------------

Trust me, I am *NO* mechanic. I usually get frustrated and end up
breaking something.

But it was kinda fun. Mrs.E. even got a big kick out of watching my
efforts and actually became a little emotional. Back in our younger
days raising kids, etc., we could never afford a new car so I was
always spending half the weekends fixing up (as best I could)
whatever car or cars we had just so I could get to work again the
following week. But as the years went by and financial situations
changed, the old cars became a thing of the past, replaced with easy
to buy new ones. I've certainly had my share and then some of nice,
new fancy cars. But I've lost interest in them now. I actually got
a big kick out of searching for an older car that I could "fix up" and
use for local driving instead of using the truck all the time and I
got a weird sense of accomplishment in fixing the AC system and
installing new front rotors and brake pads on it. Something I haven't
felt for many years.


You still don't know where the gas went. You will be back.


Maybe not.. A lot of these kits now have "stop leak" built in. Some have
the black light dye too so you can go back and find the leak. A good tip
for Dick might be just to go back and check all the joints...

Just a note, Greg is refering to the fact that the stuff that goes in
there doesn't degrade or "go bad", if it's not working, it's not there
anymore, there is a leak.. At least for freon, etc...

On 6/10/2013 9:37 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 21:05:56 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ...



You are waywayway beyond my car mechanic abilities... ?

--------------------------------------

Trust me, I am *NO* mechanic. I usually get frustrated and end up
breaking something.

But it was kinda fun. Mrs.E. even got a big kick out of watching my
efforts and actually became a little emotional. Back in our younger
days raising kids, etc., we could never afford a new car so I was
always spending half the weekends fixing up (as best I could)
whatever car or cars we had just so I could get to work again the
following week. But as the years went by and financial situations
changed, the old cars became a thing of the past, replaced with easy
to buy new ones. I've certainly had my share and then some of nice,
new fancy cars. But I've lost interest in them now. I actually got
a big kick out of searching for an older car that I could "fix up" and
use for local driving instead of using the truck all the time and I
got a weird sense of accomplishment in fixing the AC system and
installing new front rotors and brake pads on it. Something I haven't
felt for many years.


You still don't know where the gas went. You will be back.

About 3 mos. ago I had exactly the same scenario as Eisboch, including
the difficulty getting the compressor to start. Over several years, the
charge can leak past the seals. Mine has been working fine since the
recharge. Knock on wood.

"Hank©" wrote in message
b.com...

On 6/10/2013 9:37 PM, wrote:

You still don't know where the gas went. You will be back.

About 3 mos. ago I had exactly the same scenario as Eisboch, including
the difficulty getting the compressor to start. Over several years,
the
charge can leak past the seals. Mine has been working fine since the
recharge. Knock on wood.

-----------------------------------------------

The seals that typically go bad are simple Buna or Viton O'rings.
They are not perfect seals, even when new. They have a specification
called "permeability" that relates to how many molecules can pass
through the material it's made of. Dealt with this routinely in the
high vacuum equipment business. Assuming no real "leaks", the
permeability of the various O'ring seals used on the vacuum system is
what limited the ultimate level of vacuum that could be achieved. In
ultra high vacuum systems, use of Buna or Viton O'rings are used
sparingly and compressed copper metal seals are used instead.

One of the features of the 134A refrigerant that replaced freon 12 is
that the gas molecules are smaller and the number of molecules that
can pass "through" the O'ring material is higher. If the O'ring is
kept lubricated (contained in the 134A refrigerant), the amount lost
due to permeability is reduced. But if the system sits, unused for
lengthy periods of time, enough can pass through the O'ring seals to
make the system inoperable.

I think the old Freon 12 systems had a high pressure cut out that
disengaged the clutch, causing the system to cycle on and off in
normal operation. What appears to be new in the more modern systems
is a transducer that also monitors the low side pressure side. If it
drops too much, the clutch will not engage. It's purpose is to
prevent damage to the compressor by running it "dry". I am not an AC
expert by any means but it makes sense to me.

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 19:48:28 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 6/10/13 7:37 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"Earl" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ...



With someone more skilled than I am driving it, my motorcycle will blow
the doors off that Ford truck in 0-60 and in the quarter mile and again,
with the right driver, leave that 911 Turbo you had behind, too. If I
recall the test data, the Duc will do 0=60 in 3.1 or 3.2 seconds, and
the quarter mile in 11.1 seconds. A couple of the Ducs will beat 3
seconds in 0-60 and do the quarter mile in under 10 seconds.

But...not me with driving.

---------------------------------------

Or me. I like bikes too ... or did. But at some point you have to
face the music and realize that reflexes aren't what they used to be
and motorcycles can be .... well ... flat out dangerous, even for
experienced riders. That, plus the fact that I got spoiled having
the Harley in Florida. I know I'll get all kinds of incoming flack
for this but cruising around in the early evening on some of the
inland roads near Jupiter in a tee shirt and no helmet was the balls.
Never went fast. Just nice, cruising on isolated back roads away
from all the noise and traffic. Compared to riding up here in MA
where you still have to have leathers on in the evenings, even in the
summer, helmet, gloves, chaps, .... the heck with it. Just wasn't the
same. Last Harley was a 2007 Ultra Classic. Beast weighed almost
900 lbs. Then, I traded a 1965 Volkswagon Bus that I picked up for a
completely restored 1974 Norton 850 Commando.
Pretty stupid move. The Norton was a young man's bike, not something
for an old fart like me. Reliving my youth, or tried to. Rode it
twice and sold it.



Harry's imaginary Ducati is far more unreliable than either of your
M5's. I know several people who have owned one, and only one, and now
have another brand.

------------------------------------------

That's hard to believe. The two M5's I had were nightmares. They were
2006 models and I think BMW was still getting all the bugs out of the
software that controlled virtually every aspect of the car. The first
one was constantly locking up the transmission so you couldn't shift
it. Software revisions and upgrades didn't fix it. They finally gave
me a newer one, manufactured later in the year that supposedly had all
the "bugs" worked out. Nope. Started doing the same thing. Red cog
of death appeared on the dash display. I had enough. They are awesome
cars and maybe all the bugs are worked out by now, but it turned me off
to BMW performance vehicles.


It wouldn't matter what brand I had, "Earl the Flaming Ass" would knock
it. That's why I don't post photos here any more of boats, motorcycles
or cars, and one of the reasons why Earl is a permanent resident of my
Bozo Bin.

Ducati produces beautifully made motorcycles that are super fast, handle
well, and are reliable. I've had Honda and Kawasaki motorcycles and have
found their reliability no different than "The Duc."

None of which compares with my Moto Guzzi - 63,407 miles and hasn't been in a shop for at least the
past 22 years.

(Knock on wood!)

John H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

"John H" wrote in message
...


None of which compares with my Moto Guzzi - 63,407 miles and hasn't
been in a shop for at least the
past 22 years.

(Knock on wood!)

John H.

-------------------------------------------

Not knocking a Guzzi ... many people like them and they have a cult
following. Mrs.E's uncle has an old Harley Road King that has well
over 300,000 miles on it. He rebuilt the engine once during it's
life.

On 6/11/13 8:31 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"John H" wrote in message
...


None of which compares with my Moto Guzzi - 63,407 miles and hasn't been
in a shop for at least the
past 22 years.

(Knock on wood!)

John H.

-------------------------------------------

Not knocking a Guzzi ... many people like them and they have a cult
following. Mrs.E's uncle has an old Harley Road King that has well
over 300,000 miles on it. He rebuilt the engine once during it's life.



I drove a FIAT for a day once, sometime in the 1970s. A nice-looking 124
roadster. Crapped out on me twice the same day for different reasons.
Not as bad as an MGA I owned. It caught fire one stormy night on the way
back from Ft. Leonard Wood to Kansas City. I took off the plate and
hitchhiked back home. MGA is probably a planter by the side of the road.