"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:



I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard
with
the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped
handgun
based on that feature alone.


I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red
point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by
that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your
human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target.

--------------------------------

I don't practice shooting using human targets.

On 8/26/2013 6:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



"John H" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote:


That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip.


Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only
one in use at a range, and it
magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon
finally turned it off. I think he
was just embarrassed.

John (Gun Nut) H.

-----------------------------------

Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers
installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot
indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to
illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor
range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the
S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards.
In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight.

They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the
point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with
an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not
going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on.

The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors
at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle
that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it.
It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a
scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I
used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since.

I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with
the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped
handgun based on that feature alone.


Try a green laser


One friend of mine says "the guys shooting you can use it to pinpoint
you", but that assumes you are in a "gunfight". I suspect if I carried a
weapon and pulled it, whatever happened would be over quite quickly.
That being said. There is also the intimidation factor...

The rack of a shotgun is probably the most recognizable sound out there
as far as deterrent is concerned .. If a bad guy, or a good guy for that
matter hears that sound he knows he has met resistance, and possibly
someone has just gotten the jump, and it's time to get the hell out of
there if you can or lay down and hope the guy doesn't hit the bang
switch (from a previous post. Similarly, if that guy sees a red dot
on his shirt, or even the trace of the laser after the first volley,
unless he is also familiar with laser clad guns, I assume it would have
a similar intimation effect... It only takes a second of distraction or
second guessing to get the jump on "the bad guy", so I might want that
laser anyway....

wrote in message ...

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard
with
the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped
handgun based on that feature alone.


Try a green laser

----------------------------------

I still don't get what the point is. As Harry pointed out the laser
is to help determine where the gun is pointed without using the
sights.
This would most likely be in a close range, self defense requirement
where you need to get some rounds off fast and you fire more from the
"ready" without sighting. In that type of situation, who's going to
spend the extra time fumbling for the laser button to turn in on.
Worse yet, only to find your battery is dead. So are you.

A bunch of us went to the range today and practiced shooting without
sighting with targets set up only about 10 feet away.
I think it's important to do this with your primary home defense gun
of choice, because after a while you know instinctively where to hold
and point it, even if you are firing from waist level. Each gun is
different, obviously, so I only use my 38 Chief's Special for this.
It's the gun I'd reach for in the event of a home intruder at night
with ill-will.

On 8/26/13 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:



I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with
the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun
based on that feature alone.


I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red
point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by
that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your
human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target.

--------------------------------

I don't practice shooting using human targets.



Well, then, why would you want a laser sight? They're not much good for
target shooting.

"JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message
...

On 8/26/2013 6:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



"John H" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote:


That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip.


Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only
one in use at a range, and it
magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon
finally turned it off. I think he
was just embarrassed.

John (Gun Nut) H.

-----------------------------------

Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers
installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot
indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to
illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an
outdoor
range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and
the
S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25
yards.
In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight.

They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's
the
point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation
with
an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am
not
going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on.

The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see
outdoors
at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle
that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it.
It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted
a
scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser,
I
used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since.

I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard
with
the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped
handgun based on that feature alone.


Try a green laser


One friend of mine says "the guys shooting you can use it to pinpoint
you", but that assumes you are in a "gunfight". I suspect if I carried
a
weapon and pulled it, whatever happened would be over quite quickly.
That being said. There is also the intimidation factor...

The rack of a shotgun is probably the most recognizable sound out
there
as far as deterrent is concerned .. If a bad guy, or a good guy for
that
matter hears that sound he knows he has met resistance, and possibly
someone has just gotten the jump, and it's time to get the hell out of
there if you can or lay down and hope the guy doesn't hit the bang
switch (from a previous post. Similarly, if that guy sees a red
dot
on his shirt, or even the trace of the laser after the first volley,
unless he is also familiar with laser clad guns, I assume it would
have
a similar intimation effect... It only takes a second of distraction
or
second guessing to get the jump on "the bad guy", so I might want that
laser anyway....

------------------------------

I agree the sound of racking a shotgun is probably a strong sound
deterrent.

Don't agree about the laser spot for reasons I've already stated plus
the fact that an intruder probably won't notice the spot on his chest
or head at first, even if you had the time to find the button or
switch and turn it on.

I think a lot of this "what if" talk is bogus anyway. If you woke up
at 2 am with the sound of someone breaking into your house, or
approaching you in your room, there isn't going to be a whole hell of
a lot of time to think about what to do to "scare" the intruder away.
That's why my home defense firearm of choice is the little 38 Special.
It's a simple revolver, ready to fire either in double or single
action mode. No racking of slides, no safeties, no laser. Just
pull the trigger and "bang".

On 8/26/13 6:18 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 8/26/2013 6:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



"John H" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote:


That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip.


Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only
one in use at a range, and it
magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon
finally turned it off. I think he
was just embarrassed.

John (Gun Nut) H.

-----------------------------------

Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers
installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot
indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to
illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor
range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the
S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards.
In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight.

They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the
point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with
an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not
going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on.

The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors
at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle
that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it.
It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a
scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I
used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since.

I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with
the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped
handgun based on that feature alone.


Try a green laser


One friend of mine says "the guys shooting you can use it to pinpoint
you", but that assumes you are in a "gunfight". I suspect if I carried a
weapon and pulled it, whatever happened would be over quite quickly.
That being said. There is also the intimidation factor...

The rack of a shotgun is probably the most recognizable sound out there
as far as deterrent is concerned .. If a bad guy, or a good guy for that
matter hears that sound he knows he has met resistance, and possibly
someone has just gotten the jump, and it's time to get the hell out of
there if you can or lay down and hope the guy doesn't hit the bang
switch (from a previous post. Similarly, if that guy sees a red dot
on his shirt, or even the trace of the laser after the first volley,
unless he is also familiar with laser clad guns, I assume it would have
a similar intimation effect... It only takes a second of distraction or
second guessing to get the jump on "the bad guy", so I might want that
laser anyway....


Just make sure that laser is pointed at you before you pull the trigger.

On 8/26/2013 6:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message
...

On 8/26/2013 6:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



"John H" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote:


That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip.


Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only
one in use at a range, and it
magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon
finally turned it off. I think he
was just embarrassed.

John (Gun Nut) H.

-----------------------------------

Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers
installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot
indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to
illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor
range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the
S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards.
In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight.

They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the
point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with
an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not
going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on.

The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors
at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle
that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it.
It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a
scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I
used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since.

I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with
the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped
handgun based on that feature alone.


Try a green laser


One friend of mine says "the guys shooting you can use it to pinpoint
you", but that assumes you are in a "gunfight". I suspect if I carried a
weapon and pulled it, whatever happened would be over quite quickly.
That being said. There is also the intimidation factor...

The rack of a shotgun is probably the most recognizable sound out there
as far as deterrent is concerned .. If a bad guy, or a good guy for that
matter hears that sound he knows he has met resistance, and possibly
someone has just gotten the jump, and it's time to get the hell out of
there if you can or lay down and hope the guy doesn't hit the bang
switch (from a previous post. Similarly, if that guy sees a red dot
on his shirt, or even the trace of the laser after the first volley,
unless he is also familiar with laser clad guns, I assume it would have
a similar intimation effect... It only takes a second of distraction or
second guessing to get the jump on "the bad guy", so I might want that
laser anyway....

------------------------------

I agree the sound of racking a shotgun is probably a strong sound
deterrent.

Don't agree about the laser spot for reasons I've already stated plus
the fact that an intruder probably won't notice the spot on his chest
or head at first, even if you had the time to find the button or switch
and turn it on.

I think a lot of this "what if" talk is bogus anyway. If you woke up
at 2 am with the sound of someone breaking into your house, or
approaching you in your room, there isn't going to be a whole hell of a
lot of time to think about what to do to "scare" the intruder away.
That's why my home defense firearm of choice is the little 38 Special.
It's a simple revolver, ready to fire either in double or single action
mode. No racking of slides, no safeties, no laser. Just pull the
trigger and "bang".



Well, have a couple other ideas provided by a fiend but they are all
"what if's"... soooooo... I will say, one of them involves yelling down
the stairs (custom designed for my home at the time) " We are armed, the
police are on the way, if you come up the stairs we will shoot you!"

Our insurance agent taught a course in "use of deadly force for
homeowners", and we were considering firearms at the time...

On 8/26/13 6:48 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 8/26/2013 6:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"JustWaitAFrekinMinute" wrote in message
...

On 8/26/2013 6:00 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 16:53:19 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



"John H" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 26 Aug 2013 00:54:49 -0400, wrote:


That looks like the one and he has the laser in the grip.


Does he like it? Does he find he laser site helpful? I've seen only
one in use at a range, and it
magnified the 'shaking' so much the individual aiming the weapon
finally turned it off. I think he
was just embarrassed.

John (Gun Nut) H.

-----------------------------------

Based on the limited experience I've had, I think the lasers
installed in handguns are a total waste of time. Unless you shoot
indoors at a somewhat darkened range, they aren't strong enough to
illuminate the target. I do most of my range shooting at an outdoor
range and the lasers are totally worthless. The Walther PPK and the
S&W Bodyguard both have lasers. Can't see them outdoors at 25 yards.
In fact, I can't see them even at 10 yards outside in sunlight.

They work ok in the house but unless there's an intruder, what's the
point? And if there was ever a life threatening confrontation with
an intruder, it's going to be a relatively close range and I am not
going to worry about taking the time to turn the stupid laser on.

The only firearm I have that has a laser strong enough to see outdoors
at a reasonable range is the one installed in the Ruger 10/22 rifle
that I recently purchased. But, I still don't bother using it.
It's a stronger laser but the battery life is limited. I mounted a
scope on the rifle and, after boresighting and adjusting the laser, I
used it to adjust and calibrate the scope. Haven't used it since.

I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with
the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped
handgun based on that feature alone.


Try a green laser


One friend of mine says "the guys shooting you can use it to pinpoint
you", but that assumes you are in a "gunfight". I suspect if I carried a
weapon and pulled it, whatever happened would be over quite quickly.
That being said. There is also the intimidation factor...

The rack of a shotgun is probably the most recognizable sound out there
as far as deterrent is concerned .. If a bad guy, or a good guy for that
matter hears that sound he knows he has met resistance, and possibly
someone has just gotten the jump, and it's time to get the hell out of
there if you can or lay down and hope the guy doesn't hit the bang
switch (from a previous post. Similarly, if that guy sees a red dot
on his shirt, or even the trace of the laser after the first volley,
unless he is also familiar with laser clad guns, I assume it would have
a similar intimation effect... It only takes a second of distraction or
second guessing to get the jump on "the bad guy", so I might want that
laser anyway....

------------------------------

I agree the sound of racking a shotgun is probably a strong sound
deterrent.

Don't agree about the laser spot for reasons I've already stated plus
the fact that an intruder probably won't notice the spot on his chest
or head at first, even if you had the time to find the button or switch
and turn it on.

I think a lot of this "what if" talk is bogus anyway. If you woke up
at 2 am with the sound of someone breaking into your house, or
approaching you in your room, there isn't going to be a whole hell of a
lot of time to think about what to do to "scare" the intruder away.
That's why my home defense firearm of choice is the little 38 Special.
It's a simple revolver, ready to fire either in double or single action
mode. No racking of slides, no safeties, no laser. Just pull the
trigger and "bang".



Well, have a couple other ideas provided by a fiend but they are all
"what if's"... soooooo... I will say, one of them involves yelling down
the stairs (custom designed for my home at the time) " We are armed, the
police are on the way, if you come up the stairs we will shoot you!"

Our insurance agent taught a course in "use of deadly force for
homeowners", and we were considering firearms at the time...

Not to worry, little ****. When you "home invade" here and bust in a
door or window, that will be a warning you provide for yourself.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

On 8/26/13 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:



I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard
with
the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped
handgun
based on that feature alone.


I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red
point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean
by
that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at
your
human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target.

--------------------------------

I don't practice shooting using human targets.



Well, then, why would you want a laser sight? They're not much good
for
target shooting.

----------------------------------------

If you re-read the thread you will find that I have stated that I
think the lasers are worthless and wouldn't pay anything extra or seek
out a particular gun only because it has one. The two handguns that
I own that have them came standard with them. I don't use them.

For reasons already stated in another post, I don't think they are of
much value in a home defense, intruder situation either.
I'd rather practice shooting at close range without sighting, using
the handgun I'd reach for in the event of a home intruder.
At 10-15 feet or so, I've become fairly proficient at hitting a small
(8-inch) target, some near the bull's eye, with the 38 Chief's
Special revolver, without sighting.

On 8/26/13 6:51 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

On 8/26/13 6:10 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 8/26/13 4:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:



I wouldn't pay anything extra for a laser. If it comes standard with
the gun, fine, but I wouldn't go searching for a laser equipped handgun
based on that feature alone.


I'm sorry, but I find most of this entire discussion hilarious. Red
point lasers are not intended to *illuminate* a target, if you mean by
that lighting it up. They are to tell you if you are pointing at your
human target, and not to the left or right of or above your target.

--------------------------------

I don't practice shooting using human targets.



Well, then, why would you want a laser sight? They're not much good for
target shooting.

----------------------------------------

If you re-read the thread you will find that I have stated that I think
the lasers are worthless and wouldn't pay anything extra or seek out a
particular gun only because it has one. The two handguns that I own
that have them came standard with them. I don't use them.

For reasons already stated in another post, I don't think they are of
much value in a home defense, intruder situation either.
I'd rather practice shooting at close range without sighting, using the
handgun I'd reach for in the event of a home intruder.
At 10-15 feet or so, I've become fairly proficient at hitting a small
(8-inch) target, some near the bull's eye, with the 38 Chief's Special
revolver, without sighting.





Agreed. But I see some use for a pistol mounted flashlight, just to make
sure you recognize that your target is not a family member.