On 4/21/2014 11:38 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 06:00:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/21/2014 2:00 AM, wrote:

Dick is right. I really got out of that business in the 60s and we had
"hand me down" hardware at the time.

The newest thing I actually worked on was a Mk 56. That was at the
limit of it's capability tracking an airliner. The only thing that we
had that was close to the state of the art was our ASW stuff. We had
Mk 44 and Mk46 torpedoes on board. The sonar was still new enough that
the FTs didn't even know what the hell it was. (no need to know).
I think the "weather" stations were eliminated by sono buoys and other
listening hardware as much as anything else. Satellites had eliminated
the actual weather mission years before.


Although I was in the ancient Navy for over 9 years, I learned more
about some of the newer and current shipboard systems since I left the
Navy and worked as a civilian on some military development and
procurement programs. Most involved specific components that are
integrated into the overall scheme of things. It is some amazing
technology and it works which is also amazing given the rough conditions
it is used in.

I had an interesting (to me anyway) time in the Navy. A strange chain
of events led to being assigned to a project group rather than as
traditional ship's company on the two ships I spent time on. When the
project was transferred from the first ship to the second, I was
transferred along with the project.

At the time the project was classified but is no longer. It was the
initial deployment, testing and de-bugging of a passive sonar towed
array system used to detect and identify ships and submarines without
emitting traditional sonar "pings". A stationary ground based system
called "SOSUS" had been in operation for years with facilities located
around the globe. I read a report that the SOSUS facility in the
Bahamas could track and identify the actual ship by name that was
transiting the Strait of Gibraltar as it exited the Mediterranean Sea
and entered the Atlantic. The project I was involved with was the
pre-deployment testing of a similar type of passive system to a mobile
platform like a ship or submarine. Every ship or sub, even of the same
type and class has a unique noise "signature". A library of recorded
signatures evolved over the years and computers at the shore facilities
and then aboard ships can search the library for the recorded, matching
signature.

It is now standard equipment on most Navy ships and subs and the whole
ground based and ship based system is integrated and operates under a
different name. Tom Clancy sorta blew the whistle on this system when
he referred and described it in "The Hunt for Red October".


Yup SOSUS was the last nail in the coffin of the USCG weather
stations.
We had some of that function in the mid 60s although nobody said it
out loud.



SOSUS was originally developed in the late 1940s and was deployed over
the next two decades (50's and 60's) with upgrades and so forth. For
many years it's existence and capabilities were classified. The Russians
couldn't figure out why we always knew where to look for their subs that
we constantly tracked.

On 4/21/2014 11:36 AM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/21/14, 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 05:01:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2014 11:03 PM, Boating All Out wrote:

The Port Royal is designated a CG. It's about 5000 tons lighter and
40' shorter than the "destroyer" Zumwalt.
Destroyers are meant for support of capitol ships and ASW.
Why call the Zumwalt a destroyer? It's not under previous and long
held
definitions. Apparently they just "did it."
Pretty stupid calling a cruiser a destroyer.
Even if the Navy no longer plans to build what they previously called
"destroyers" they should have called the Zumwalt a cruiser.
That's my humble opinion.
That it's named for Zumwalt is fitting. He transformed the Navy from
hard-asses to the "kinder and gentler" Navy.
Now his name is attached to redefining ship classes.
Personally, I don't think that ships will fare well in heavy sea.
It's a cluster**** anyway.
Dead end, as the Navy has canceled them, and will build only 3 instead
of the originally planned 32.
They're going back to building Arleigh Burke class destroyers.
If they have any sense they'll re-designate the 3 Zumwalt class they
build as cruisers.





I am sure the Pentagon and Navy appreciate your humble opinion.

Over the years there have been many new classes of ships that went into
semi-production. Some have been successes (like the Arleigh Burke class
and it's predecessor, the Spruance class) and some only had a few built
after determining design deficiencies in the initial builds or due to
changes in mission requirements.

The Arleigh Burke class has been the most successful post WWII destroyer
design and the numbers and configurations built reflect the mission
requirements of the Navy since the mid 1980's. But again, mission
requirements have changed and the Zumwalt represents, as least on paper,
what future requirements lay ahead. If it proves to be successful it
will mean fewer destroyers in active service overall (we currently have
over 60 Arleigh Burke class in commission) and a likely reduction in
overall Navy Task Groups which will include decommissioning and not
replacing capital ships like aircraft carriers. If it is not
successful or if mission requirements change again, the USS Zumwalt may
prove to be the only one of it's class to be built.

As for calling the Zumwalt a destroyer instead of a cruiser simply
because of it's length, there's plenty of precedence of a ship's class
growing over the years depending on mission requirements. Destroyer
Escorts (DE) were traditionally smaller than a Destroyer, armed more
lightly and were primarily anti-submarine platforms. They were cheap to
build in numbers and considered to be somewhat expendable in a naval
battle situation. In the 60's and 70's DEs began to grow in size from
315 feet to over 450 feet, larger than some WWII class Destroyers. They
were also re-designated as Frigates instead of Destroyer Escorts. Now,
Frigates are now also being phased out as mission requirements have
changed.




The names of weapons systems are political as much as military.

When the German army started building the Sturmgewehr it was
designated the MP44 (Machine Pistol 44) because Hitler said they did
not need a better rifle. He wanted an improved sub machine gun.

Maybe "cruiser" sounded too gay ;-)



Well, we all know The Village People had the Navy tagged.

I was in tractor supply this morning. They had do it yourself castrating
tools on display. I thought of you immediately.

On 4/21/2014 12:00 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/21/14, 11:47 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:03:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Do you remember the USS Coates, the DE that "guarded" New Haven Harbor
during the 1960s?

I remember the USS Drum that kept the godless communists away from the
Washington Navy Yard (called the gun factory at the time)

After that sailed away the mission was left to the USCGR unit next to
the Wilson Bridge ;-)



I was a high schooler in New Haven when the Coates was assigned there
as, if memory serves, a training vessel. We encountered it from time to
time in the really small boats we used to play, fish, waterski, et
cetera, on Long Island Sound. Mostly, though, the Coates was docked.

Just looked it up...it was used as a target vessel and sunk in the early
1970s.




I don't remember the Coates in New Haven, but I probably wasn't paying
much attention to Navy ships then. I looked it up also. It was one of
the many DEs built during WWII and of a class just prior to the ones I
was on. They only made 13 of the class I was on, then re-designated
them as Frigates.

Reading the history of Navy ships has always been of interest to me.
Some had very colorful histories. One of the sister ships of the
Coates, the USS Eugene E. Elmore (DE-686) performed some heroic actions
during WWII, hunting and sinking a German sub that attacked a task force
disabling four ships. The Elmore saved many sailors and then took one
of the damaged ships under tow and delivered it to Casablanca.
Little ships but they had big hearts.

On 4/21/14, 12:23 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 12:00:28 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/21/14, 11:47 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:03:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Do you remember the USS Coates, the DE that "guarded" New Haven Harbor
during the 1960s?

I remember the USS Drum that kept the godless communists away from the
Washington Navy Yard (called the gun factory at the time)

After that sailed away the mission was left to the USCGR unit next to
the Wilson Bridge ;-)



I was a high schooler in New Haven when the Coates was assigned there
as, if memory serves, a training vessel. We encountered it from time to
time in the really small boats we used to play, fish, waterski, et
cetera, on Long Island Sound. Mostly, though, the Coates was docked.

Just looked it up...it was used as a target vessel and sunk in the early
1970s.


I am not familiar with that one but I was in the 5th district.
Pretty much all of the weather cutters were given to the Vietnamese in
the late 60s and early 70s.
I guess it was a tax write off ;-)

I often wonder what became of them.



The Chinese turned them into razor blades and Apple computers!

On 4/21/14, 12:30 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/21/2014 12:00 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/21/14, 11:47 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:03:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Do you remember the USS Coates, the DE that "guarded" New Haven Harbor
during the 1960s?

I remember the USS Drum that kept the godless communists away from the
Washington Navy Yard (called the gun factory at the time)

After that sailed away the mission was left to the USCGR unit next to
the Wilson Bridge ;-)



I was a high schooler in New Haven when the Coates was assigned there
as, if memory serves, a training vessel. We encountered it from time to
time in the really small boats we used to play, fish, waterski, et
cetera, on Long Island Sound. Mostly, though, the Coates was docked.

Just looked it up...it was used as a target vessel and sunk in the early
1970s.




I don't remember the Coates in New Haven, but I probably wasn't paying
much attention to Navy ships then. I looked it up also. It was one of
the many DEs built during WWII and of a class just prior to the ones I
was on. They only made 13 of the class I was on, then re-designated
them as Frigates.

Reading the history of Navy ships has always been of interest to me.
Some had very colorful histories. One of the sister ships of the
Coates, the USS Eugene E. Elmore (DE-686) performed some heroic actions
during WWII, hunting and sinking a German sub that attacked a task force
disabling four ships. The Elmore saved many sailors and then took one
of the damaged ships under tow and delivered it to Casablanca.
Little ships but they had big hearts.






Hmmm. I wonder if the ship's crew refreshed itself at Rick's Café
Américain?

My boats have car engines so pump gas is fine for what we do bit I still have l still have limitations on what I use. No E-85. That's way too much 'corn squeezin's' for me.

On 4/21/14, 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 12:30:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/21/14, 12:23 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 12:00:28 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/21/14, 11:47 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:03:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Do you remember the USS Coates, the DE that "guarded" New Haven Harbor
during the 1960s?

I remember the USS Drum that kept the godless communists away from the
Washington Navy Yard (called the gun factory at the time)

After that sailed away the mission was left to the USCGR unit next to
the Wilson Bridge ;-)



I was a high schooler in New Haven when the Coates was assigned there
as, if memory serves, a training vessel. We encountered it from time to
time in the really small boats we used to play, fish, waterski, et
cetera, on Long Island Sound. Mostly, though, the Coates was docked.

Just looked it up...it was used as a target vessel and sunk in the early
1970s.


I am not familiar with that one but I was in the 5th district.
Pretty much all of the weather cutters were given to the Vietnamese in
the late 60s and early 70s.
I guess it was a tax write off ;-)

I often wonder what became of them.



The Chinese turned them into razor blades and Apple computers!

I would not be surprised. I am sure they were cut up for scrap by
someone.

I looked up the Absecon and the gooks were still using it as late as
2000.
I bet we took the ASW stuff off before we gave it to them. (at least
the torpedoes)

The AVPs were originally built as sea plane tenders during WWII,
designed to sit in a lagoon somewhere. They were round bottom tubs
that were tough to handle in 20' seas. We still cruised at around 18
kts.
The CG liked them because they were floating fuel tanks that had a lot
of endurance at sea.
I think we could have sailed around the world without stopping and
still had plenty of fuel. .



Interesting.

Why haven't you expunged the word "gook" from your vocabulary?

On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 12:00:28 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/21/14, 11:47 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:03:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Do you remember the USS Coates, the DE that "guarded" New Haven Harbor
during the 1960s?

I remember the USS Drum that kept the godless communists away from the
Washington Navy Yard (called the gun factory at the time)

After that sailed away the mission was left to the USCGR unit next to
the Wilson Bridge ;-)



I was a high schooler in New Haven when the Coates was assigned there
as, if memory serves, a training vessel. We encountered it from time to
time in the really small boats we used to play, fish, waterski, et
cetera, on Long Island Sound. Mostly, though, the Coates was docked.

Just looked it up...it was used as a target vessel and sunk in the early
1970s.


===

I believe you'd be well qualified to skipper a target vessel.

On 4/21/2014 1:12 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 4/21/14, 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 12:30:23 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/21/14, 12:23 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 12:00:28 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 4/21/14, 11:47 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:03:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Do you remember the USS Coates, the DE that "guarded" New Haven
Harbor
during the 1960s?

I remember the USS Drum that kept the godless communists away from
the
Washington Navy Yard (called the gun factory at the time)

After that sailed away the mission was left to the USCGR unit next to
the Wilson Bridge ;-)



I was a high schooler in New Haven when the Coates was assigned there
as, if memory serves, a training vessel. We encountered it from
time to
time in the really small boats we used to play, fish, waterski, et
cetera, on Long Island Sound. Mostly, though, the Coates was docked.

Just looked it up...it was used as a target vessel and sunk in the
early
1970s.


I am not familiar with that one but I was in the 5th district.
Pretty much all of the weather cutters were given to the Vietnamese in
the late 60s and early 70s.
I guess it was a tax write off ;-)

I often wonder what became of them.



The Chinese turned them into razor blades and Apple computers!

I would not be surprised. I am sure they were cut up for scrap by
someone.

I looked up the Absecon and the gooks were still using it as late as
2000.
I bet we took the ASW stuff off before we gave it to them. (at least
the torpedoes)

The AVPs were originally built as sea plane tenders during WWII,
designed to sit in a lagoon somewhere. They were round bottom tubs
that were tough to handle in 20' seas. We still cruised at around 18
kts.
The CG liked them because they were floating fuel tanks that had a lot
of endurance at sea.
I think we could have sailed around the world without stopping and
still had plenty of fuel. .



Interesting.

Why haven't you expunged the word "gook" from your vocabulary?


I *knew* you were going to say that.

On Monday, April 21, 2014 12:01:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 07:47:00 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



On Monday, April 21, 2014 10:11:36 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:

Very interesting, Wayne. The only concerned we have about fueling is which gas station has the best price to fill up before we hit the ramp at the lake.



Keeping our boat in a slip takes that opportunity away, so we have to pay the higher marina price for gas. Fortunately, my home marina has one of the best prices on the lake, so that's a plus. It still hurts.



You want to play, you got to pay. :-)



I guess you boys are not ethanolaphobes ;-)



I am the same way. I buy, whatever is the cheapest gas. We do keep it

moving. I worry more about the gas in my truck than the gas in the

boat. I run 50 gallons through the boat for every 10 that go through

the truck I haul it in.

That ends up being about 30-40 days depending on the weather.

Lately it has been so nice we are getting out 4-5 nights a week for an

hour or two..

The marina says their gas is ethanol free. Maybe, maybe not. Except for the "winter" season, we go through a 50 gallon tank every 2-3 weeks. A day of heavy use with a trip to one of the restaurants at the far end of the lake can eat most of that tank. I use a maintenance dose of Marine Stabil all season, with a storage dose in the cool weather. No issues yet.