Subject: Docking HELP!!
From: WaIIy
Date: 10/16/2003 21:39 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:11:27 GMT, otnmbrd wrote:

First off, it wasn't stated whether you have inboard, outboard, or same
way turning props.

He said he had twin I/O's on a 32 ft boat.
Most likely counter-rotating.

Pay attention.


Obviously, you don't know the difference between inboard and outboard turning
props and how they react.

Shen

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 04:41:39 GMT, WaIIy wrote:

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 04:37:50 GMT, "James W. Sloan"
wrote:

My personal rules for docking a twin screw vessel:

-approach the dock and STOP about 100 yards away

-remain stopped for a minute or two and determine what the wind and current
will be doing to you during docking

-the boat will want to go beam to the wind and bow to the current

-once you've figured out what nature is gonna do, and how fast...make a plan
to deal with it

-explain your plan to all on board who will be expected to help with docking

-make sure they understand the plan

-put out your fenders and lines before moving toward the dock

-using what you learned about the wind and current, approach the dock slowly
into the wind and into the current

-remember that the rudder(s) must have water flowing over them to offer any
help in controlling the boat

He has I/Os, as you know, this won't apply.

Are you saying an I/O has no steering effect when in neutral? That has
certainly not been my experience--not in either of my two boats that are so
equipped.

But let's say you're right; do you take issue with the other items of advice
he's offered? If you do, why?

Joe Parsons

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:26:41 +0100, Trevor Dennis
wrote:

Nigel Featherston writes

Follow Wally's suggestions, and visit the marina during the week when the
wind and current will be at a minimum and practice docking.

Or even less scary, try approaching a buoy out in open water. Or
practice MOB retrieval by throwing a weighted fender over the side.

We've done the Hat Overboard Drill more than once.

It's a pretty urgent operation, too, when the Hat involved is a much-loved, well
broken in Tilley!

Joe Parsons

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:52:12 GMT, WaIIy wrote:

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:28:10 GMT, Joe Parsons
wrote:

-remember that the rudder(s) must have water flowing over them to offer any
help in controlling the boat

He has I/Os, as you know, this won't apply.

Are you saying an I/O has no steering effect when in neutral?

That wasn't the point. You already know an I/O is directional,
regardless of the rudder effect.

The point is, I/O's aren't concerned with rudders, since they don't have
"rudders".

Sure they do. The entire drive has enough side area to provide some steering
effect. Not as effective as a rudder aft of the screws on an inboard, but they
*will* steer the boat. Go ahead--try it.

And yes: an I/O is a directional drive, but the direction of the thrust is not
its only effect--any more than a sailboat steers solely by the action of its
rudder.

That has
certainly not been my experience--not in either of my two boats that are so
equipped.

Of course there is some amount of directional control in neutral, but
when would you use it with I/Os ? I had a twin I/O and can't recall
ever trying to steer it in neutral.

With a twin, as the original article said, the most effective low speed
maneurvering (as in docking) is done with the rudder(s) amidships, by using the
clutches alone. What you seemed to be saying (and please correct me if I am
misinterpreting what you wrote) was that James' "personal rules" (his term)
"wouldn't apply."

If you'd meant to take issue *only* with his last statement, that "the rudder(s)
must have water flowing over them to offer any help in controlling the boat," it
would have been clearer if you had edited the quoted text. I think the issue of
the whether a boat has I/Os or inboards and rudders is moot, anyway, since the
effect of two thrusts is the same regardless of drive configuration.

But let's say you're right; do you take issue with the other items of advice
he's offered? If you do, why?

He's received great advice and I certainly learned a few things myself.

Yes--it was *very* good advice.

Joe Parsons

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 20:29:52 -0700, "Rob" wrote:

Is it just me or does everybody get knots in there gut every time they have
to dock?

I Have had boats up to 22 feet for a long time, but end of August I bought a
32 footer, with twin inboard outboard engines. WOW it sure a lot tougher
than I expected.

I dock in a boat house, which you would think would be relatively
easy..Wrong trying to keep it straight and steady I find quite difficult.

I've heard some people say "don't touch the wheel"
others say "idle speed only"

any pointers to help regain my confidence would be very much appreciated,
please remember I have an I/O twins.



in addition to the advice others will offer about practice, when you
ARE practicing, put one engine in idle. practice docking that way in
case an engine quits on you. it's gonna happen, so be prepared.
---------------------------
to see who "wf3h" is, go to "qrz.com"
and enter 'wf3h' in the field

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:52:12 GMT, WaIIy wrote:

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:28:10 GMT, Joe Parsons
wrote:

-remember that the rudder(s) must have water flowing over them to offer any
help in controlling the boat

He has I/Os, as you know, this won't apply.

Are you saying an I/O has no steering effect when in neutral?

That wasn't the point. You already know an I/O is directional,
regardless of the rudder effect.

The point is, I/O's aren't concerned with rudders, since they don't have
"rudders".

Sure they do. The entire drive has enough side area to provide some steering
effect. Not as effective as a rudder aft of the screws on an inboard, but they
*will* steer the boat. Go ahead--try it.

And yes: an I/O is a directional drive, but the direction of the thrust is not
its only effect--any more than a sailboat steers solely by the action of its
rudder.

That has
certainly not been my experience--not in either of my two boats that are so
equipped.

Of course there is some amount of directional control in neutral, but
when would you use it with I/Os ? I had a twin I/O and can't recall
ever trying to steer it in neutral.

With a twin, as the original article said, the most effective low speed
maneurvering (as in docking) is done with the rudder(s) amidships, by using the
clutches alone. What you seemed to be saying (and please correct me if I am
misinterpreting what you wrote) was that James' "personal rules" (his term)
"wouldn't apply."

If you'd meant to take issue *only* with his last statement, that "the rudder(s)
must have water flowing over them to offer any help in controlling the boat," it
would have been clearer if you had edited the quoted text. I think the issue of
whether a boat has I/Os or inboards and rudders is moot, anyway, since the
effect of two thrusts is the same regardless of drive configuration.

But let's say you're right; do you take issue with the other items of advice
he's offered? If you do, why?

He's received great advice and I certainly learned a few things myself.

Yes--it was *very* good advice.

Joe Parsons

Is it just me or does everybody get knots in there gut every time they
have
to dock?

A crowd used to gather when I approached the 90 degree lift slip at my
marina....usually lots of wind, plenty of tidal current with or against the
river current. There were some spectacular bang ups...today I slid right
into the slip like a mother's arms. You think anyone was looking then...?