On 12/16/2014 8:08 AM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


There is no statute of limitation on murder or war crimes.
If the democrats are able to establish that a policy decision like the
interrogations were illegal, the drone strikes would be fair game for
the republicans or just the families of the innocents killed.

Nobody wants to open that Pandora's Box,.


Drone strikes on enemies who choose to hide among "non-combatants" in
unreachable territory, Pakistan eg, and torturing "detainees," are
different matters.
The alternative to drone strikes is invasion, artillery barrages, or
carpet bombing, and occupation - all if you're ambitious.
With Pakistan, the next step is nuclear conflagration.
Is that what you really want?
You called torture "interrogation" Torture is torture.
They concealed that they were torturing. Why?
Because it is a criminal activity.
Drone strikes aren't concealed. They aren't illegal.
So unless drone attacks are declared illegal, quit crying about them.
Republicans and Democrats are free to support torture and drone strikes
alike. Let them stand up and declare it.

I'll point out to you, as I did to Luddite, that this isn't a political
matter. It's a question of law, which is derived from values.


I watched Charlie Rose interview the CIA agent who did the initial
interrogation (using conventional methods) of the 9/11 "mastermind"
(forget his name). The agent said the guy was an arrogant SOB with no
respect for his situation. He taunted and threatened those who grilled
him and had a major criminal type mindset.

The CIA agent said that after one session with water-boarding the
guy was singing like a canary. He, as others have claimed, provided
valuable Intel as to organizational stuff and a future planned attack.

I am not a lawyer but if laws are based on values I have no problem
with him being subjected to water-boarding if it save American lives.

In article ,
says...


I am not a lawyer but if laws are based on values I have no problem
with him being subjected to water-boarding if it save American lives.

What, torture everybody you "suspect know something", and let God sort
them out?
Then I presume you'd assent to the police torturing people to prevent
crimes if it saves American lives.
Not me.
You do know that there's no proof that the CIA saved ANY American lives
by torturing "detainees," right? And that 25% of them were innocent
victims of mistaken identity?
Well, torture them anyway. Let God sort them out.
Nope, I don't want such a nightmarish government, where torturers are
given free rein.

Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


There is no statute of limitation on murder or war crimes.
If the democrats are able to establish that a policy decision like the
interrogations were illegal, the drone strikes would be fair game for
the republicans or just the families of the innocents killed.

Nobody wants to open that Pandora's Box,.


Drone strikes on enemies who choose to hide among "non-combatants" in
unreachable territory, Pakistan eg, and torturing "detainees," are
different matters.
The alternative to drone strikes is invasion, artillery barrages, or
carpet bombing, and occupation - all if you're ambitious.
With Pakistan, the next step is nuclear conflagration.
Is that what you really want?
You called torture "interrogation" Torture is torture.
They concealed that they were torturing. Why?
Because it is a criminal activity.
Drone strikes aren't concealed. They aren't illegal.
So unless drone attacks are declared illegal, quit crying about them.
Republicans and Democrats are free to support torture and drone strikes
alike. Let them stand up and declare it.
I'll point out to you, as I did to Luddite, that this isn't a political
matter. It's a question of law, which is derived from values.

And what court convicted those killed in the drone strike? Just another
mass murderer in your logic.

On 12/16/2014 2:18 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...


I am not a lawyer but if laws are based on values I have no problem
with him being subjected to water-boarding if it save American lives.

What, torture everybody you "suspect know something", and let God sort
them out?
Then I presume you'd assent to the police torturing people to prevent
crimes if it saves American lives.
Not me.
You do know that there's no proof that the CIA saved ANY American lives
by torturing "detainees," right? And that 25% of them were innocent
victims of mistaken identity?
Well, torture them anyway. Let God sort them out.
Nope, I don't want such a nightmarish government, where torturers are
given free rein.




You sure take some interesting liberties in what you think someone said.

I was discussing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (the mastermind of 9/11)
specifically and you conveniently snipped the part about what the CIA
agent had to say.

He's not alone, BTW. Others have said the same thing including the
non-CIA guy who actually conducted the water-boarding.

Torture to get info on common crimes? Of course not.
Water-boarding to gain intel that may prevent mass murders of Americans
after a demonstration that the parties involved have that capability?
Absolutely.

On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 13:18:02 -0600, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...


I am not a lawyer but if laws are based on values I have no problem
with him being subjected to water-boarding if it save American lives.

What, torture everybody you "suspect know something", and let God sort
them out?
Then I presume you'd assent to the police torturing people to prevent
crimes if it saves American lives.
Not me.
You do know that there's no proof that the CIA saved ANY American lives
by torturing "detainees," right? And that 25% of them were innocent
victims of mistaken identity?
Well, torture them anyway. Let God sort them out.
Nope, I don't want such a nightmarish government, where torturers are
given free rein.


I'll bet you even believed the Affordable Care Act was going to be
affordable.
--

Here's hoping you have a very Merry Christmas, and a spectacular New Year!

In article ,
says...



You sure take some interesting liberties in what you think someone said.

I was discussing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (the mastermind of 9/11)
specifically and you conveniently snipped the part about what the CIA
agent had to say.

He's not alone, BTW. Others have said the same thing including the
non-CIA guy who actually conducted the water-boarding.

Torture to get info on common crimes? Of course not.
Water-boarding to gain intel that may prevent mass murders of Americans
after a demonstration that the parties involved have that capability?
Absolutely.

WTF? You expect me to believe the CIA?
KSM has confessed to everything he's been accused of. That's what
torturing gets. Confessing to everything, true or not.
He revealed nothing that saved American lives. Nothing.
You have to torture everyone before the crime is committed to prevent
the crime. Everyone. Including those who know nothing about it.
They'll all confess. To everything.
That's real detective work there.

On 12/16/14 5:03 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...



You sure take some interesting liberties in what you think someone said.

I was discussing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (the mastermind of 9/11)
specifically and you conveniently snipped the part about what the CIA
agent had to say.

He's not alone, BTW. Others have said the same thing including the
non-CIA guy who actually conducted the water-boarding.

Torture to get info on common crimes? Of course not.
Water-boarding to gain intel that may prevent mass murders of Americans
after a demonstration that the parties involved have that capability?
Absolutely.

WTF? You expect me to believe the CIA?
KSM has confessed to everything he's been accused of. That's what
torturing gets. Confessing to everything, true or not.
He revealed nothing that saved American lives. Nothing.
You have to torture everyone before the crime is committed to prevent
the crime. Everyone. Including those who know nothing about it.
They'll all confess. To everything.
That's real detective work there.


Didn't the CIA report that Osama bin Laden confessed to plotting the
9-11 attacks as soon as they cut his head off?




--

Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker:


*Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush
Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins*

On 12/16/2014 5:03 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...



You sure take some interesting liberties in what you think someone said.

I was discussing Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (the mastermind of 9/11)
specifically and you conveniently snipped the part about what the CIA
agent had to say.

He's not alone, BTW. Others have said the same thing including the
non-CIA guy who actually conducted the water-boarding.

Torture to get info on common crimes? Of course not.
Water-boarding to gain intel that may prevent mass murders of Americans
after a demonstration that the parties involved have that capability?
Absolutely.

WTF? You expect me to believe the CIA?
KSM has confessed to everything he's been accused of. That's what
torturing gets. Confessing to everything, true or not.
He revealed nothing that saved American lives. Nothing.
You have to torture everyone before the crime is committed to prevent
the crime. Everyone. Including those who know nothing about it.
They'll all confess. To everything.
That's real detective work there.



You sure are the expert in such matters. Ever apply for a government job?

On 12/16/2014 5:06 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
--

Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker:


*Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush
Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins*


Jeeze, the guy just announced that he's *considering* running.
Why not wait until you hear what he has to say before starting
the BS ?

On 12/16/14 5:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/16/2014 5:06 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
--

Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker:


*Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush
Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins*


Jeeze, the guy just announced that he's *considering* running.
Why not wait until you hear what he has to say before starting
the BS ?

I'm fairly familiar with Jeb, his politics, and some of his shadier
deals in Florida and elsewhere.

I don't like his conservatism. He opposes Medicaid expansion, the
Affordable Care Act, wants to turn Medicare into a voucher program,
opposes marriage equality, ad infinitum.

The best thing about him is his last name. It'll be the kiss of death
for him.

--

Jeb Bush 2016 Bumper Sticker:


*Try to Forget My Brother George W. Bush
Left The Country in Smoldering Ruins*