The Derby...
 

Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 18:51:04 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:08:31 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

*The* problem, in my opinion, is that any number of libertarian
candidates for high office are crackpots and therefore in the minds of
the average voters, the libertarian party and its candidates are mostly
crackpots.

The GOP, of course, is also infested with crackpots, but on the national
ticket, they typically do not pick one as the standard bearer except, of
course, in 2008, when MooseMama made it onto the ticket.

Unfortunately you define a crackpot as anyone who disagrees with your
opinion on anything.
I can't think of a bigger crackpot than Al Gore and he is a hero of
yours.

The voters define crackpots. That's why loonitarians do so poorly.
They are normally millionaires, and they look out for millionaires.
Cutting SS, Medicare and Medicaid in half won't fly.
When voters agree to that - is when hell freezes over.
I don't know why the loonies don't understand that.

Who, in national politics, is not a millionaire. If they aren't the
first time they are elected, they become one pretty quickly.

I understand doing anything to medicare and SS are the 3d rail of
politics but it is doomed by demographics and it is destined to fall
from it's own weight and it is probably too late to do much of
anything about it. There is no amount of taxation that would fix it.
When you have 2 workers per retiree and each retiree is getting more
money than either of the workers makes (SS plus medical care) , it
can't go on.
Medicare has been upside down for well over a decade and SS has been
upside down for years itself.
Entitlements eat EVERY DIME of revenue and we borrow everything else,
including defense. How is that sustainable?

Who is the crackpot, the guy who points that out or the one who says
everything is fine?

You're overwrought. It's nothing a little tinkering won't fix.
I won't tell you how, because you chose not to believe it.
But that's your choice.

A little tinkering? You are a ****ing nutcase. We are both financially
and morally bankrupt as a nation. A little tinkering is going to fix an
government that borrows 40 cents of every dollar it spends? You ISIS is
just a bunch of punks also.

The Derby...
 

On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

The Derby...
 

On 3/24/2015 6:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.


I am sure much of it washes away into storm drains but every spring the
town and state highway departments are out with the big street sweepers,
picking up what is left. It's recycled and used again.
In areas where you get a lot of snow the first thing that is done in a
storm is treating the roadways, overpasses and bridges with treated
sand. Bridges and overpasses are important because they will freeze
before the roadways. Then, as it snows the mess is plowed to the side
and the treated sand is applied again. This will happen many times
during a major storm and the sand and salt in the plowed snow piles
stays there until there's a major melt. We still have 3 4 foot snow
banks on all the roads up here from the storms we had in January and
February. The corrosive sand and salt mixture just sits there for weeks
and months.

I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.

The Derby...
 

On 3/24/15 7:20 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/24/2015 6:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as
having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first
woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble
and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle
that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off
with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.


I am sure much of it washes away into storm drains but every spring the
town and state highway departments are out with the big street sweepers,
picking up what is left. It's recycled and used again.
In areas where you get a lot of snow the first thing that is done in a
storm is treating the roadways, overpasses and bridges with treated
sand. Bridges and overpasses are important because they will freeze
before the roadways. Then, as it snows the mess is plowed to the side
and the treated sand is applied again. This will happen many times
during a major storm and the sand and salt in the plowed snow piles
stays there until there's a major melt. We still have 3 4 foot snow
banks on all the roads up here from the storms we had in January and
February. The corrosive sand and salt mixture just sits there for weeks
and months.

I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.


No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is. :)

--
Proud to be a Liberal.

The Derby...
 

On 3/24/2015 7:23 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/24/15 7:20 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/24/2015 6:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as
having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first
woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going
on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble
and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the
North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle
that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off
with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.


I am sure much of it washes away into storm drains but every spring the
town and state highway departments are out with the big street sweepers,
picking up what is left. It's recycled and used again.
In areas where you get a lot of snow the first thing that is done in a
storm is treating the roadways, overpasses and bridges with treated
sand. Bridges and overpasses are important because they will freeze
before the roadways. Then, as it snows the mess is plowed to the side
and the treated sand is applied again. This will happen many times
during a major storm and the sand and salt in the plowed snow piles
stays there until there's a major melt. We still have 3 4 foot snow
banks on all the roads up here from the storms we had in January and
February. The corrosive sand and salt mixture just sits there for weeks
and months.

I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.


No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is. :)



And used Florida cars are not highly desirable up here due to their lack
of rust and frame rot. :-)

The Derby...
 

On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 07:20:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/24/2015 6:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.


I am sure much of it washes away into storm drains but every spring the
town and state highway departments are out with the big street sweepers,
picking up what is left. It's recycled and used again.
In areas where you get a lot of snow the first thing that is done in a
storm is treating the roadways, overpasses and bridges with treated
sand. Bridges and overpasses are important because they will freeze
before the roadways. Then, as it snows the mess is plowed to the side
and the treated sand is applied again. This will happen many times
during a major storm and the sand and salt in the plowed snow piles
stays there until there's a major melt. We still have 3 4 foot snow
banks on all the roads up here from the storms we had in January and
February. The corrosive sand and salt mixture just sits there for weeks
and months.

We don't have it nearly so bad. The stuff left on the road gets ground to powder by
tires and then rained or blown away. The stuff on sides just 'dissipates' somehow.
I've never seen a sweeper go after it.

I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.

Probably a lot more of your basic concrete beam bridges which don't require
repainting regularly - too many kids with spray cans keep them freshly painted.
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

The Derby...
 

On 3/24/2015 7:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is. :)



And used Florida cars are not highly desirable up here due to their lack
of rust and frame rot. :-)


Harry lies and you swear to it. ;-)
What percentage of federal and state road taxes collected are used to
repair and improve the road system in your state, as compared to Florida.
--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

The Derby...
 

On 3/24/2015 9:47 AM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 3/24/2015 7:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is. :)



And used Florida cars are not highly desirable up here due to their lack
of rust and frame rot. :-)


Harry lies and you swear to it. ;-)
What percentage of federal and state road taxes collected are used to
repair and improve the road system in your state, as compared to Florida.

Beats me. I thought we were discussing what area has more bridge and
overpass corrosion due to their relative climates ... Florida or the
Northeast.

If you are looking for how gasoline taxes and tolls contribute to a
state's spending on road systems, here's a chart. As the article
states, it's only about a third of the total amount spent. The rest
comes from other revenue sources.

I think you have to also consider the size of the states, miles of roads
and number of bridges and users. The chart isn't a relative comparison
of who spends the most or least per capita.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/gasoline-taxes-and-tolls-pay-only-third-state-local-road-spending

The Derby...
 

On 3/24/2015 10:13 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 07:27:33 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/24/2015 7:23 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/24/15 7:20 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/24/2015 6:52 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as
having
what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and
asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first
woman
president.


If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going
on,
I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for
absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges.
The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly
the government is in spending money like this on what they were
supposed to be collecting it for.
In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up
north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money
gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs.
That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble
and
that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the
North
East states.


Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle
that
lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and
the salt are the killers of road infrastructure.

There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water.
Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly
engineered.
Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time.
Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes.

It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and
bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like
trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their
budget instead of patching holes in the bridge.



I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the
amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to.
Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind
might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first
freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up
in the spring.

They sweep the roads to get the salt mix up? Down here it washes off
with the rain or
melting snow, but I've never seen it swept.


I am sure much of it washes away into storm drains but every spring the
town and state highway departments are out with the big street sweepers,
picking up what is left. It's recycled and used again.
In areas where you get a lot of snow the first thing that is done in a
storm is treating the roadways, overpasses and bridges with treated
sand. Bridges and overpasses are important because they will freeze
before the roadways. Then, as it snows the mess is plowed to the side
and the treated sand is applied again. This will happen many times
during a major storm and the sand and salt in the plowed snow piles
stays there until there's a major melt. We still have 3 4 foot snow
banks on all the roads up here from the storms we had in January and
February. The corrosive sand and salt mixture just sits there for weeks
and months.

I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.


No matter how severe the environment is for infrastructure in the
northeast, Gregg assures us it is far, far worse in SW Florida. Well, of
course it is. :)



And used Florida cars are not highly desirable up here due to their lack
of rust and frame rot. :-)


You are not that fond of cars that lived near the beach.

BTW if you look at the car carriers, used cars move south, not north,.


Of course. Florida is full of snowbirds shipping cars south and
retirees getting out of Dodge. Come to think of it, just about
*everything* that ends up in Florida, especially where you are, arrives
from the north.

A used "Florida" car commands a premium in the used car lots up here.
They haven't been driven for years in the sand/salt slush that rots out
the fenders and frames.

The Derby...
 

On 3/24/2015 10:23 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 08:47:25 -0400, John H.
wrote:



I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where
there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and
repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but
not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer
months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the
bridge and overpass structures.

Probably a lot more of your basic concrete beam bridges which don't require
repainting regularly - too many kids with spray cans keep them freshly painted.

The problem with the prestressed concrete beams is the salt water
infiltrates the beam and gets to the rebar.. A little rust on that
rebar will blow that beam out as fast as a series of freeze thaw
cycles.

I do find it amazing that this many "boaters" are blowing off the
effects of 24/7/356 salt water corrosion in sub tropical water.
Richard mentioned cars ... OK how many Florida boats are that
attractive, even to Chesapeake Bay boaters, much less someone near
Tim.

If road salt is that deleterious to the structure UNDER your bridges,
maybe you should be looking at how you engineer bridges to see how the
salt is getting there and why it isn't harmlessly going out the
scuppers and over the side.,


I don't question how bridges are designed to withstand the elements.
There are people far more qualified than you or I that do that.