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wrote:
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to. Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up in the spring. The rain is on top of the bridge and the salt is on the bottom. We also have a dry season for several months a year when the wind is blowing hard and it just does not rain. The water temperature makes a big difference too,. I suppose the real answer would be, how much money makes it to road and bridge maintenance (per mile and per bridge foot). I bet we win. If you really have that much more of a harsh environment, you should be spending more money than we do. We have salt, etc. we also have crap roads. Lots of potholes, and some of the highest taxes in the country. We also have a highway trust fund with probably in excess of a $billion in IOU's from the general fund. Now they want to raise taxes to fix roads. A couple years ago we passed an proposition to only spend highway dollars on roads, unless we are in a fiscal crises. We are always in a fiscal crises, we have by far the most people on welfare. And this is a Democrat run and controlled state! |
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On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:52:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: The only type of construction work on bridges in Florida that I ever saw was new construction and changes to roadways. Come to think of it, I never even saw any repaving being done although I am sure it is done from time to time. === There is a lot of repaving going on. It really never stops. Here in SWFL there is also a lot of lane widening in progress. Not sure they can still do that on the east coast since it's pretty well built out wall to wall. |
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wrote:
On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:52:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/24/2015 12:24 PM, wrote: On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 11:26:34 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 3/24/15 10:35 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 3/24/2015 10:23 AM, wrote: On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 08:47:25 -0400, John H. wrote: I think Greg forgets that I spent three winters living in Florida where there were many bridges and overpasses. I never saw sand blasting and repainting of any of them. I am sure it happens from time to time but not to the extent that you see in the northeast. During the summer months there are crews out constantly sand blasting and repainting the bridge and overpass structures. Probably a lot more of your basic concrete beam bridges which don't require repainting regularly - too many kids with spray cans keep them freshly painted. The problem with the prestressed concrete beams is the salt water infiltrates the beam and gets to the rebar.. A little rust on that rebar will blow that beam out as fast as a series of freeze thaw cycles. I do find it amazing that this many "boaters" are blowing off the effects of 24/7/356 salt water corrosion in sub tropical water. Richard mentioned cars ... OK how many Florida boats are that attractive, even to Chesapeake Bay boaters, much less someone near Tim. If road salt is that deleterious to the structure UNDER your bridges, maybe you should be looking at how you engineer bridges to see how the salt is getting there and why it isn't harmlessly going out the scuppers and over the side., I don't question how bridges are designed to withstand the elements. There are people far more qualified than you or I that do that. You obviously missed the article in the Boston Globe announcing that Gregg has been hired by the Harvard School of Medicine to teach courses on "There is no need for trained, experienced, educated doctors," and "Tips on Performing Your Own Heart Surgery." These are only taught by the world's greatest living expert. If road salt is that big an issue even a dumb old guy like me knows you should be designing your bridges to send that salt over the side and not send it up under the bridge . I don't know why bridges are designed as they are. Most around here are steel I-Beam frames on concrete forms. Perhaps they don't want heavy rains to cause water or runoff from pouring down on whatever is under the bridge .... like cars traveling at 70 miles per hour on a highway. All I know is during the summer it is routine to see half of a highway blocked off while a crew is sandblasting and then repainting the steel frames of bridges. The only type of construction work on bridges in Florida that I ever saw was new construction and changes to roadways. Come to think of it, I never even saw any repaving being done although I am sure it is done from time to time. They resurface roads fairly often here,. We had a "lift" on the little street in front of my house about 10 years ago and we are supposed to be on the schedule for another one soon. Maybe you didn't see the bridge maintenance because they do it from under the bridge. One problem that causes the requirement for total replacement is those prestressed concrete beams. They do OK until you start getting salt water intrusion, then they are goners. There is no easy way to swap them out. That is what happened to the Sanibel Causeway. They just built another one. On a lot of the roads, they rebuild the bridge as part of adding lanes. They build the second span, divert to it and rebuild the old one. I also think part of the road maintenance problems are the "prevailing wage" seems to be the highest amount ever negotiated by a union. Also seems as if some technology is not allowed. When in Canada 10 years ago, there was a company "asphalt recycling company" ARC that used an infra red heater that took the asphalt roadway up, chopped it up, added a binder and relaid the road. 4.5 lane miles a day. Here it takes a week to do a half mile of road. |
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On 3/23/2015 9:17 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/23/2015 8:29 PM, wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:38:20 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 3/23/15 5:20 PM, wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:02:08 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: All depends on who is the replacement. I don't see Hillary as having what it takes. She'll be too busy ducking answers to questions and asking why we don't simply respect the fact that she's the first woman president. If this was not such a corrupt government and so many scams going on, I would suggest a 20 cent hike in the gasoline tax that went for absolutely NOTHING BUT fixing roads and bridges. The thing that prevents me form being serious about it, is how badly the government is in spending money like this on what they were supposed to be collecting it for. In states like Florida, it would actually go into the roads but up north, where they really need infrastructure improvements, the money gets siphoned off into totally unrelated programs. That is why Florida only has around 2% of their bridges in trouble and that is up in the double digits in California, New York and the North East states. Wrong. The reason is that Florida doesn't have a freeze-thaw cycle that lasts half the year, it seems, as the northeast states do. *That* and the salt are the killers of road infrastructure. There is plenty of salt here. Most of the bridges go over salt water. Freeze thaw can be an issue but not if the road is properly engineered. Usually frost heaves are when they did a quicky patch last time. Water gets under the patch and blows it out when it freezes. It is still undeniable that the places with the biggest road and bridge problems have diverted road building money to other things like trains people won't ride or simply to patch other holes in their budget instead of patching holes in the bridge. I doubt very much that the bridges in Florida are subjected to the amount of salt corrosion that the bridges up here are subjected to. Down there you get plenty of rain that rinses any salt spray that wind might deposit on them. Up here the salting starts with the first freezing sleet or snow and continues all winter. It's only swept up in the spring. My neighbor has a very large front yard. It used to be a big hay field but over the years he's been mowing it, weeding it and developing a nice looking lawn. Each spring however there are huge boulders "growing" in the lawn that weren't there the previous fall. Some are huge... weighing over 1200lbs. I know that because I help him dig them out with the back hoe on my tractor and then try to pick them up with the bucket. It's rated to lift 1200 lbs. Some I couldn't pick up and had to push them off into the woods. They aren't "growing". When the ground freezes each winter they are slowly pushed upward until they break the surface and continue to "grow" each winter until we dig them out. Ask any car dealer or mechanic if he wants to work on a car from Boston, or Baton rouge... |
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