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#21
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posted to rec.boats
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On 3/30/2015 7:27 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/29/15 4:01 PM, John H. wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:04:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/29/2015 1:33 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:08:50 -0400, John H. wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 04:51:27 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: After a couple days of melting, we had a heavy snowfall last night. Where's the JohnnyMop when you need him? Maybe he hopped on his moto guzzler and is on his way up here to shovel my sidewalk. You still can't shovel your own snow? === John, please give it a rest. That horse was dead after the first beating. No kidding. For John (because I know he's going to now give me a lecture on how a Cessna steers again) ... here's some info that will maybe clear up our disagreement. This is for a Cessna 150 but it also applies to the 152 and the 172. They all operate the same way. Pertinent excerpt: ".... Tricycle aircraft will align with the direction of travel if weight is kept off the nose wheel. There is a significant design difference of the nose wheel between Cessna and Piper. On the ground, Piper steers heavily and positively; Cessnas have springs that will gradually pull the wheel into the turn. The left and right turning springs of the Cessna are usually of different tension. This means that more differential toe braking will be required in one direction than in the other. (Note by me: There is no direct connection of the nose gear to the rudder pedals on the Cessna. They are spring loaded.) The Cessna's nose steering is coupled to springs, and it's only movable 10 degrees) either side, unless differential braking is used. Braking will then caster the wheel to 30 degrees." http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/fxd_wing/cessna150.htm In addition John: When taxiing on the ground you can turn make turns (although they tend to be wide) using rudders only but the turn is because you have deflected the rudder to one side. By adding some throttle, you cause the prop wash to hit the deflected rudder which pushes the back of the airplane in the opposite direction of the turn. That causes the front of the airplane to turn in the direction you desire to go. The spring loaded nose gear simply allows the tricycle landing gear to follow the turn. For sharp turns, you use differential braking. Very interesting. Thanks! Helps explain why they make steering rods for the Cessnas. Some of the RC planes with a turnable nose geer also turn with rudder action. The physics are basically the same as in the above paragraph, but without the differential braking. Although, the bigger, more expensive planes have brakes, so they may also use them for steering. I don't have one of those several thousand dollar jobs. So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172? http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 Apparently you've never seen a RC Cessna 172. Have a look at one in action. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...6804167A671E85 -- Respectfully submitted by Justan Laugh of the day from Krause "I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here. I've been "born again" as a nice guy." |
#22
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posted to rec.boats
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On 3/30/2015 7:57 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze - show quoted text - "So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172? http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 " SNERK! Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane? Learn to read American English. A. There was a heated discussion on whether or not the 172 has a steerable nose wheel linked to the rudder control. Your boy Harry Jumped in to snark things up a bit as usual. Why do you hang out with such a turd? -- Respectfully submitted by Justan Laugh of the day from Krause "I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here. I've been "born again" as a nice guy." |
#23
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posted to rec.boats
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On 3/30/15 7:57 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze - show quoted text - "So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172? http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 " SNERK! Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane? You mean, it's not? |
#24
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posted to rec.boats
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On Monday, 30 March 2015 09:41:08 UTC-3, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 3/30/2015 7:57 AM, True North wrote: Keyser Söze - show quoted text - "So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172? http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 " SNERK! Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane? Learn to read American English. A. There was a heated discussion on whether or not the 172 has a steerable nose wheel linked to the rudder control. Your boy Harry Jumped in to snark things up a bit as usual. Why do you hang out with such a turd? -- Respectfully submitted by Justan Laugh of the day from Krause "I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here. I've been "born again" as a nice guy." 'merican english??? You jest! |
#25
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posted to rec.boats
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 07:27:22 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/29/15 4:01 PM, John H. wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:04:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: snipped When taxiing on the ground you can turn make turns (although they tend to be wide) using rudders only but the turn is because you have deflected the rudder to one side. By adding some throttle, you cause the prop wash to hit the deflected rudder which pushes the back of the airplane in the opposite direction of the turn. That causes the front of the airplane to turn in the direction you desire to go. The spring loaded nose gear simply allows the tricycle landing gear to follow the turn. For sharp turns, you use differential braking. Very interesting. Thanks! Helps explain why they make steering rods for the Cessnas. Some of the RC planes with a turnable nose geer also turn with rudder action. The physics are basically the same as in the above paragraph, but without the differential braking. Although, the bigger, more expensive planes have brakes, so they may also use them for steering. I don't have one of those several thousand dollar jobs. So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172? http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 Yeah, pretty much. Of course for most of those it's done mentally, no gauges. And since we're flying close to the ground, there is not a lot of time to waste in making the decisions. With jets, and high speed warbirds, the speed may approach 100mph (not scale), and because the planes are relatively small it's easy to lose sight of them very quickly. Thus most of the warnings are 'audio', not visual. With FPV multirotors, a lot more visual information can be transmitted to the headset. -- Guns don't cause problems. Gun owner behavior causes problems. |
#26
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posted to rec.boats
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:
Keyser Söze - show quoted text - "So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172? http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 " SNERK! Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane? Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing? -- Guns don't cause problems. Gun owner behavior causes problems. |
#27
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posted to rec.boats
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On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 9:57:41 AM UTC-4, John H. wrote:
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane? Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing? dicklicker is trying to be harry....but failed. We all know he's just a dim-witted lacky. |
#28
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posted to rec.boats
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On 3/30/2015 9:57 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: Keyser Söze - show quoted text - "So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172? http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 " SNERK! Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane? Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing? I don't think you ever claimed that flying a RC is the same as flying a real plane. Of course it isn't. At some point in the discussion you asked what the "differences" are. Among the obvious (being what happens to the "pilot" and airplane if he/she screws up) one of the differences is in how some are "steered" at slow speeds on the ground. My comments where related to the types of airplanes that I had experience flying ... primarily the high wing, tricycle gear small Cessnas. You claim that they have a steerable nose gear, controlled by the rudder pedals. I claim they have a passive, spring loaded nose gear that allows it to "follow" a turn but does not initiate the turn. The "steering shafts" that you refer to are the two, spring loaded assemblies that allow limited angle movement of the nose gear to follow the turn. A sharp turn is initiated by differential braking. Shallow or wide turns can be accomplished by deflecting the rudder (with the rudder pedals that will cause the prop wash to push the tail one way or another. The nose gear simply follows (slightly) due to compression on one of the springs in the assemblies. Otherwise, you'd be scuffing the nose gear tire similar to making a sharp turn on dry pavement in your truck with 4 wheel drive engaged. |
#29
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posted to rec.boats
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On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:20:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 3/30/2015 9:57 AM, John H. wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: Keyser Söze - show quoted text - "So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172? http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 " SNERK! Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane? Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing? I don't think you ever claimed that flying a RC is the same as flying a real plane. Of course it isn't. Exactly. At some point in the discussion you asked what the "differences" are. I don't believe that's true either. I believe I may have referred to 'similarities' in which case you started in about how they were not at all similar. Among the obvious (being what happens to the "pilot" and airplane if he/she screws up) one of the differences is in how some are "steered" at slow speeds on the ground. My comments where related to the types of airplanes that I had experience flying ... primarily the high wing, tricycle gear small Cessnas. You asked perhaps a dozen different questions. To each of them I provided an answer. You then highlighted the 'big differences', such as the steering, which in fact turned out to be quite similar in both real and RC aircraft. In fact, a whole lot of similarities surfaced. You claim that they have a steerable nose gear, controlled by the rudder pedals. I claim they have a passive, spring loaded nose gear that allows it to "follow" a turn but does not initiate the turn. The "steering shafts" that you refer to are the two, spring loaded assemblies that allow limited angle movement of the nose gear to follow the turn. A sharp turn is initiated by differential braking. Shallow or wide turns can be accomplished by deflecting the rudder (with the rudder pedals that will cause the prop wash to push the tail one way or another. The nose gear simply follows (slightly) due to compression on one of the springs in the assemblies. Otherwise, you'd be scuffing the nose gear tire similar to making a sharp turn on dry pavement in your truck with 4 wheel drive engaged. Exactly. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the Cessnas *can* be turned by nose wheel with the rudder pedals. Initially your claim was that they couldn't, and there was another of the big differences between 'real' and 'RC'. Depending on the size and investment in the RC aircraft, the similarities between RC and 'real' aircraft are numerous. The biggest difference is that a crash won't kill the pilot, unless the RC pilot crashes into his own head. And I expect that's been done at least once! -- Guns don't cause problems. Gun owner behavior causes problems. |
#30
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posted to rec.boats
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On 3/30/2015 10:47 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:20:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 3/30/2015 9:57 AM, John H. wrote: On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote: Keyser Söze - show quoted text - "So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172? http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 " SNERK! Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane? Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing? I don't think you ever claimed that flying a RC is the same as flying a real plane. Of course it isn't. Exactly. At some point in the discussion you asked what the "differences" are. I don't believe that's true either. I believe I may have referred to 'similarities' in which case you started in about how they were not at all similar. Among the obvious (being what happens to the "pilot" and airplane if he/she screws up) one of the differences is in how some are "steered" at slow speeds on the ground. My comments where related to the types of airplanes that I had experience flying ... primarily the high wing, tricycle gear small Cessnas. You asked perhaps a dozen different questions. To each of them I provided an answer. You then highlighted the 'big differences', such as the steering, which in fact turned out to be quite similar in both real and RC aircraft. In fact, a whole lot of similarities surfaced. You claim that they have a steerable nose gear, controlled by the rudder pedals. I claim they have a passive, spring loaded nose gear that allows it to "follow" a turn but does not initiate the turn. The "steering shafts" that you refer to are the two, spring loaded assemblies that allow limited angle movement of the nose gear to follow the turn. A sharp turn is initiated by differential braking. Shallow or wide turns can be accomplished by deflecting the rudder (with the rudder pedals that will cause the prop wash to push the tail one way or another. The nose gear simply follows (slightly) due to compression on one of the springs in the assemblies. Otherwise, you'd be scuffing the nose gear tire similar to making a sharp turn on dry pavement in your truck with 4 wheel drive engaged. Exactly. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the Cessnas *can* be turned by nose wheel with the rudder pedals. Initially your claim was that they couldn't, and there was another of the big differences between 'real' and 'RC'. On that point we are still in disagreement. The Cessnas in discussion are *not* turned by the nose wheel. The nose wheel simply reacts to a turn via compression of the springs in the shaft that makes a minor adjustment in the wheel's castor angle, allowing it to follow the turn. The turn is initiated by differential braking (for a sharp turn) or by the affect of prop wash over the rudder. The nose gear reacts passively. Obviously there are other types of small airplanes that have active nose gear steering, but this is how the Cessnas work. Perhaps you interpret the name "steering shaft" as meaning it is active. What is called the steering shaft is really just the tube assembly containing the spring. I learned something I didn't know before in this discussion. When a Cessna lifts off on takeoff, the nose wheel drops a bit, disengaging from the spring loaded tubes and defaults to a position that is in alignment with the main landing gear. This is important when landing obviously. You hold off putting the nose down for as long as possible while bleeding off speed. |
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