On 3/30/2015 10:47 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:20:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/30/2015 9:57 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 "


SNERK!
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane?

Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing?



I don't think you ever claimed that flying a RC is the same as flying a
real plane. Of course it isn't.

Exactly.


At some point in the discussion you asked what the "differences" are.

I don't believe that's true either. I believe I may have referred to 'similarities'
in which case you started in about how they were not at all similar.

Among the obvious (being what happens to the "pilot" and airplane if
he/she screws up) one of the differences is in how some are "steered" at
slow speeds on the ground. My comments where related to the types of
airplanes that I had experience flying ... primarily the high wing,
tricycle gear small Cessnas.

You asked perhaps a dozen different questions. To each of them I provided an answer.
You then highlighted the 'big differences', such as the steering, which in fact
turned out to be quite similar in both real and RC aircraft. In fact, a whole lot of
similarities surfaced.

You claim that they have a steerable nose gear, controlled by the rudder
pedals. I claim they have a passive, spring loaded nose gear
that allows it to "follow" a turn but does not initiate the turn.
The "steering shafts" that you refer to are the two, spring loaded
assemblies that allow limited angle movement of the nose gear to follow
the turn. A sharp turn is initiated by differential braking. Shallow or
wide turns can be accomplished by deflecting the rudder (with the rudder
pedals that will cause the prop wash to push the tail one way
or another. The nose gear simply follows (slightly) due to compression
on one of the springs in the assemblies. Otherwise, you'd be scuffing
the nose gear tire similar to making a sharp turn on dry pavement in
your truck with 4 wheel drive engaged.

Exactly. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the Cessnas *can* be turned by nose
wheel with the rudder pedals. Initially your claim was that they couldn't, and there
was another of the big differences between 'real' and 'RC'.

Depending on the size and investment in the RC aircraft, the similarities between RC
and 'real' aircraft are numerous.

The biggest difference is that a crash won't kill the pilot, unless the RC pilot
crashes into his own head. And I expect that's been done at least once!

I think you're missing something John. Ask yourself this. While the
plane is standing still, Will the nose wheel turn if you apply a brake
or move the rudder. Luddite is saying that the nose wheel will act
similar to a castor wheel and follow the turn radius of the plane as it
reacts to rudder or brake while in motion on the ground.

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

On 3/30/2015 12:06 PM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 3/30/2015 10:47 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:20:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 3/30/2015 9:57 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:

Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC
Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 "


SNERK!
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is
the same as flying a real plane?

Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing?



I don't think you ever claimed that flying a RC is the same as flying a
real plane. Of course it isn't.

Exactly.


At some point in the discussion you asked what the "differences" are.

I don't believe that's true either. I believe I may have referred to
'similarities'
in which case you started in about how they were not at all similar.

Among the obvious (being what happens to the "pilot" and airplane if
he/she screws up) one of the differences is in how some are "steered" at
slow speeds on the ground. My comments where related to the types of
airplanes that I had experience flying ... primarily the high wing,
tricycle gear small Cessnas.

You asked perhaps a dozen different questions. To each of them I
provided an answer.
You then highlighted the 'big differences', such as the steering,
which in fact
turned out to be quite similar in both real and RC aircraft. In fact,
a whole lot of
similarities surfaced.

You claim that they have a steerable nose gear, controlled by the rudder
pedals. I claim they have a passive, spring loaded nose gear
that allows it to "follow" a turn but does not initiate the turn.
The "steering shafts" that you refer to are the two, spring loaded
assemblies that allow limited angle movement of the nose gear to follow
the turn. A sharp turn is initiated by differential braking. Shallow or
wide turns can be accomplished by deflecting the rudder (with the rudder
pedals that will cause the prop wash to push the tail one way
or another. The nose gear simply follows (slightly) due to compression
on one of the springs in the assemblies. Otherwise, you'd be scuffing
the nose gear tire similar to making a sharp turn on dry pavement in
your truck with 4 wheel drive engaged.

Exactly. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the Cessnas *can* be
turned by nose
wheel with the rudder pedals. Initially your claim was that they
couldn't, and there
was another of the big differences between 'real' and 'RC'.

Depending on the size and investment in the RC aircraft, the
similarities between RC
and 'real' aircraft are numerous.

The biggest difference is that a crash won't kill the pilot, unless
the RC pilot
crashes into his own head. And I expect that's been done at least once!

I think you're missing something John. Ask yourself this. While the
plane is standing still, Will the nose wheel turn if you apply a brake
or move the rudder. Luddite is saying that the nose wheel will act
similar to a castor wheel and follow the turn radius of the plane as it
reacts to rudder or brake while in motion on the ground.


Exactly right Jim. You explained it better than I did. On a Cessna
the small amount of "turn" of the nose wheel is the *result* of turning,
not the initiator of the turn.

Applies to the Cessnas in discussion however. Some small airplanes
*do* have active steering of the nose wheel.

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 12:06:04 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 3/30/2015 10:47 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:20:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/30/2015 9:57 AM, John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 04:57:56 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7 "


SNERK!
Is Johnny still trying to convince everyone that flying his toy is the same as flying a real plane?

Don, can you find where anyone here has said any such thing?



I don't think you ever claimed that flying a RC is the same as flying a
real plane. Of course it isn't.

Exactly.


At some point in the discussion you asked what the "differences" are.

I don't believe that's true either. I believe I may have referred to 'similarities'
in which case you started in about how they were not at all similar.

Among the obvious (being what happens to the "pilot" and airplane if
he/she screws up) one of the differences is in how some are "steered" at
slow speeds on the ground. My comments where related to the types of
airplanes that I had experience flying ... primarily the high wing,
tricycle gear small Cessnas.

You asked perhaps a dozen different questions. To each of them I provided an answer.
You then highlighted the 'big differences', such as the steering, which in fact
turned out to be quite similar in both real and RC aircraft. In fact, a whole lot of
similarities surfaced.

You claim that they have a steerable nose gear, controlled by the rudder
pedals. I claim they have a passive, spring loaded nose gear
that allows it to "follow" a turn but does not initiate the turn.
The "steering shafts" that you refer to are the two, spring loaded
assemblies that allow limited angle movement of the nose gear to follow
the turn. A sharp turn is initiated by differential braking. Shallow or
wide turns can be accomplished by deflecting the rudder (with the rudder
pedals that will cause the prop wash to push the tail one way
or another. The nose gear simply follows (slightly) due to compression
on one of the springs in the assemblies. Otherwise, you'd be scuffing
the nose gear tire similar to making a sharp turn on dry pavement in
your truck with 4 wheel drive engaged.

Exactly. I'm glad to see you acknowledge that the Cessnas *can* be turned by nose
wheel with the rudder pedals. Initially your claim was that they couldn't, and there
was another of the big differences between 'real' and 'RC'.

Depending on the size and investment in the RC aircraft, the similarities between RC
and 'real' aircraft are numerous.

The biggest difference is that a crash won't kill the pilot, unless the RC pilot
crashes into his own head. And I expect that's been done at least once!

I think you're missing something John. Ask yourself this. While the
plane is standing still, Will the nose wheel turn if you apply a brake
or move the rudder. Luddite is saying that the nose wheel will act
similar to a castor wheel and follow the turn radius of the plane as it
reacts to rudder or brake while in motion on the ground.

OK. Well, that's one of the big dissimilarities between RC airplanes and real (little
Cessa) airplanes. I'm guessing that *most* tricycle landing geared 'real' airplanes
have nosewheels that turn, similar to *most* tricycle landing geared RC airplanes.
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/29/15 4:01 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 14:04:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 3/29/2015 1:33 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 13:08:50 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Mar 2015 04:51:27 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

After a couple days of melting, we had a heavy snowfall last night.
Where's the JohnnyMop when you need him? Maybe he hopped on his moto
guzzler and is on his way up here to shovel my sidewalk.

You still can't shovel your own snow?

===

John, please give it a rest. That horse was dead after the first
beating.



No kidding.

For John (because I know he's going to now give me a lecture on how a
Cessna steers again) ... here's some info that will maybe clear up our
disagreement.

This is for a Cessna 150 but it also applies to the 152 and the 172.
They all operate the same way. Pertinent excerpt:

".... Tricycle aircraft will align with the direction of travel if
weight is kept off the nose wheel. There is a significant design
difference of the nose wheel between Cessna and Piper. On the ground,
Piper steers heavily and positively; Cessnas have springs that will
gradually pull the wheel into the turn. The left and right turning
springs of the Cessna are usually of different tension. This means that
more differential toe braking will be required in one direction than in
the other.

(Note by me: There is no direct connection of the nose gear to the
rudder pedals on the Cessna. They are spring loaded.)

The Cessna's nose steering is coupled to springs, and it's only movable
10 degrees) either side, unless differential braking is used. Braking
will then caster the wheel to 30 degrees."

http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/fxd_wing/cessna150.htm

In addition John:

When taxiing on the ground you can turn make turns (although they tend
to be wide) using rudders only but the turn is because you have
deflected the rudder to one side. By adding some throttle, you cause
the prop wash to hit the deflected rudder which pushes the back of the
airplane in the opposite direction of the turn. That causes the front
of the airplane to turn in the direction you desire to go. The spring
loaded nose gear simply allows the tricycle landing gear to follow the
turn. For sharp turns, you use differential braking.

Very interesting. Thanks! Helps explain why they make steering rods for the Cessnas.

Some of the RC planes with a turnable nose geer also turn with rudder action. The
physics are basically the same as in the above paragraph, but without the
differential braking. Although, the bigger, more expensive planes have brakes, so
they may also use them for steering. I don't have one of those several thousand
dollar jobs.



So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7

I have ridden in a 172, but got to fly front seat in a T6 Texan. Lot less
instrument panel in that old WW2 warbirds trainer.

On 3/30/15 2:58 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:


So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7

I have ridden in a 172, but got to fly front seat in a T6 Texan. Lot less
instrument panel in that old WW2 warbirds trainer.


Uh-huh. When I worked for the teachers' union, I got to sit in the
copilot seat in a King Air on a flight from Albany to LaGuardia. There's
just a *tad* more involved in flying a real airplane then there is in
flying a model airplane in a park. Just a *tad* .

My brother had a Cessna 175 which is the same as a 172, but it had a great reduction engine with a larger than normal. It's got lots of gauges especially compared to his ' 49 piper J-4 which has almost nothing.

On 3/30/2015 3:11 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 3/30/15 2:58 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:


So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna
172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7

I have ridden in a 172, but got to fly front seat in a T6 Texan. Lot
less
instrument panel in that old WW2 warbirds trainer.


Uh-huh. When I worked for the teachers' union, I got to sit in the
copilot seat in a King Air on a flight from Albany to LaGuardia. There's
just a *tad* more involved in flying a real airplane then there is in
flying a model airplane in a park. Just a *tad* .

I can hear the pilot cautioning you to "don't touch nuttin"

--

Respectfully submitted by Justan

Laugh of the day from Krause

"I'm not to blame anymore for the atmosphere in here.
I've been "born again" as a nice guy."

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 15:11:55 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 3/30/15 2:58 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:


So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7

I have ridden in a 172, but got to fly front seat in a T6 Texan. Lot less
instrument panel in that old WW2 warbirds trainer.


Uh-huh. When I worked for the teachers' union, I got to sit in the
copilot seat in a King Air on a flight from Albany to LaGuardia. There's
just a *tad* more involved in flying a real airplane then there is in
flying a model airplane in a park. Just a *tad* .

I would surely hope so since there's lives involved!
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 15:11:55 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 3/30/15 2:58 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:


So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7

I have ridden in a 172, but got to fly front seat in a T6 Texan. Lot less
instrument panel in that old WW2 warbirds trainer.


Uh-huh. When I worked for the teachers' union, I got to sit in the
copilot seat in a King Air on a flight from Albany to LaGuardia. There's
just a *tad* more involved in flying a real airplane then there is in
flying a model airplane in a park. Just a *tad* .

I would surely hope so since there's lives involved!
Yeah, because you think there isn't much difference between real flying of
a real plane and hobby flying of a toy plane.

--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

On 30 Mar 2015 21:26:53 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 15:11:55 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 3/30/15 2:58 PM, Califbill wrote:
Keyser Söze wrote:


So, this is what you have to contend with when flying that RC Cessna 172?

http://tinyurl.com/pvyg9t7

I have ridden in a 172, but got to fly front seat in a T6 Texan. Lot less
instrument panel in that old WW2 warbirds trainer.


Uh-huh. When I worked for the teachers' union, I got to sit in the
copilot seat in a King Air on a flight from Albany to LaGuardia. There's
just a *tad* more involved in flying a real airplane then there is in
flying a model airplane in a park. Just a *tad* .

I would surely hope so since there's lives involved!
Yeah, because you think there isn't much difference between real flying of
a real plane and hobby flying of a toy plane.

I suppose you could show me where I said that?
--

Guns don't cause problems.
Gun owner behavior causes problems.