On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:44:47 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 20:54:42 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The morning after pill does not bother me. There is no way to know if that 'small
collection of cells' existed or not.
--

So shooting into a house at random is OK if you are not sure if there
is someone inside?
Just curious about how we are supposed to reconcile this?

No firearms involved.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:13:45 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 12:39:56 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Almost no
animal can survive on their own immediately after birth. For damn sure, no human can
do so.

That is a very "mammalian" response ;-)

Specieist !

yeah, well....I'm not perfect.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:00:07 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 12:37:20 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:04:35 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 01:15:17 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/26/2015 7:52 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:40:19 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Nothing religious about it. It is life. It is human.

===

That's ridiculous. There's nothing human about a small collection of
cells that start multiplying.



The problem with that argument (which has been the common accepted
consensus until recently) is that it has been determined by scientists
that the small collection of multiplying cells contains all the DNA of a
human being and is certainly living and growing from the moment of
fertilization. Nothing religious about it at all.

===

It's still a philosophical/religious issue. There's nothing human
about a clump of DNA even though the potential is there. Trying to
pinpoint the exact moment a fetus becomes "human" is a more or less a
pointless exercise except for those who are dead set against abortion
on religious grounds. Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me.

I noted, upon my return, that you conveniently skipped this:

When do you consider a human life to exist?

"At the end of the 8th week, the elbows become obvious, the feet, hands and even the
fingers maybe distinguishable. The brain cavities are easily seen as large 'holes' in
the embryonic head. The heart rate has increased to 160 bpm and the heart covers
about 50% of the chest area. In some cases, it is possible to recognize the
fluid-filled stomach below the heart at the end of week 8."

Look at the 8 weeks scan. Is that just a 'collection of cells'?

http://baby2see.com/development/ultr...ans.html#week8

Yet that's pretty early in the pregnancy.

===

Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.

You didn't answer my questions!
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 16:56:15 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:00:07 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 12:37:20 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:04:35 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 01:15:17 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/26/2015 7:52 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:40:19 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Nothing religious about it. It is life. It is human.

===

That's ridiculous. There's nothing human about a small collection of
cells that start multiplying.



The problem with that argument (which has been the common accepted
consensus until recently) is that it has been determined by scientists
that the small collection of multiplying cells contains all the DNA of a
human being and is certainly living and growing from the moment of
fertilization. Nothing religious about it at all.

===

It's still a philosophical/religious issue. There's nothing human
about a clump of DNA even though the potential is there. Trying to
pinpoint the exact moment a fetus becomes "human" is a more or less a
pointless exercise except for those who are dead set against abortion
on religious grounds. Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me.

I noted, upon my return, that you conveniently skipped this:

When do you consider a human life to exist?

"At the end of the 8th week, the elbows become obvious, the feet, hands and even the
fingers maybe distinguishable. The brain cavities are easily seen as large 'holes' in
the embryonic head. The heart rate has increased to 160 bpm and the heart covers
about 50% of the chest area. In some cases, it is possible to recognize the
fluid-filled stomach below the heart at the end of week 8."

Look at the 8 weeks scan. Is that just a 'collection of cells'?

http://baby2see.com/development/ultr...ans.html#week8

Yet that's pretty early in the pregnancy.

===

Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.

You didn't answer my questions!

===

Answer my question and I might answer yours.

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:19:44 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 16:56:15 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:00:07 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 12:37:20 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:04:35 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 01:15:17 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/26/2015 7:52 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:40:19 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Nothing religious about it. It is life. It is human.

===

That's ridiculous. There's nothing human about a small collection of
cells that start multiplying.



The problem with that argument (which has been the common accepted
consensus until recently) is that it has been determined by scientists
that the small collection of multiplying cells contains all the DNA of a
human being and is certainly living and growing from the moment of
fertilization. Nothing religious about it at all.

===

It's still a philosophical/religious issue. There's nothing human
about a clump of DNA even though the potential is there. Trying to
pinpoint the exact moment a fetus becomes "human" is a more or less a
pointless exercise except for those who are dead set against abortion
on religious grounds. Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me.

I noted, upon my return, that you conveniently skipped this:

When do you consider a human life to exist?

"At the end of the 8th week, the elbows become obvious, the feet, hands and even the
fingers maybe distinguishable. The brain cavities are easily seen as large 'holes' in
the embryonic head. The heart rate has increased to 160 bpm and the heart covers
about 50% of the chest area. In some cases, it is possible to recognize the
fluid-filled stomach below the heart at the end of week 8."

Look at the 8 weeks scan. Is that just a 'collection of cells'?

http://baby2see.com/development/ultr...ans.html#week8

Yet that's pretty early in the pregnancy.

===

Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.

You didn't answer my questions!

===

Answer my question and I might answer yours.

What question?
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:17:11 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:19:44 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 16:56:15 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:00:07 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 12:37:20 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:04:35 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 01:15:17 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/26/2015 7:52 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:40:19 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Nothing religious about it. It is life. It is human.

===

That's ridiculous. There's nothing human about a small collection of
cells that start multiplying.



The problem with that argument (which has been the common accepted
consensus until recently) is that it has been determined by scientists
that the small collection of multiplying cells contains all the DNA of a
human being and is certainly living and growing from the moment of
fertilization. Nothing religious about it at all.

===

It's still a philosophical/religious issue. There's nothing human
about a clump of DNA even though the potential is there. Trying to
pinpoint the exact moment a fetus becomes "human" is a more or less a
pointless exercise except for those who are dead set against abortion
on religious grounds. Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me.

I noted, upon my return, that you conveniently skipped this:

When do you consider a human life to exist?

"At the end of the 8th week, the elbows become obvious, the feet, hands and even the
fingers maybe distinguishable. The brain cavities are easily seen as large 'holes' in
the embryonic head. The heart rate has increased to 160 bpm and the heart covers
about 50% of the chest area. In some cases, it is possible to recognize the
fluid-filled stomach below the heart at the end of week 8."

Look at the 8 weeks scan. Is that just a 'collection of cells'?

http://baby2see.com/development/ultr...ans.html#week8

Yet that's pretty early in the pregnancy.

===

Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.

You didn't answer my questions!

===

Answer my question and I might answer yours.

What question?

===

Why would anyone want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.?

You seem to be very worried about the life of an unborn clump of cells
for some reason, why not a little concern for the woman and the
unwanted child?

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 14:29:59 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:17:11 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:19:44 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 16:56:15 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:00:07 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 12:37:20 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:04:35 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 01:15:17 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/26/2015 7:52 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:40:19 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Nothing religious about it. It is life. It is human.

===

That's ridiculous. There's nothing human about a small collection of
cells that start multiplying.



The problem with that argument (which has been the common accepted
consensus until recently) is that it has been determined by scientists
that the small collection of multiplying cells contains all the DNA of a
human being and is certainly living and growing from the moment of
fertilization. Nothing religious about it at all.

===

It's still a philosophical/religious issue. There's nothing human
about a clump of DNA even though the potential is there. Trying to
pinpoint the exact moment a fetus becomes "human" is a more or less a
pointless exercise except for those who are dead set against abortion
on religious grounds. Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me.

I noted, upon my return, that you conveniently skipped this:

When do you consider a human life to exist?

"At the end of the 8th week, the elbows become obvious, the feet, hands and even the
fingers maybe distinguishable. The brain cavities are easily seen as large 'holes' in
the embryonic head. The heart rate has increased to 160 bpm and the heart covers
about 50% of the chest area. In some cases, it is possible to recognize the
fluid-filled stomach below the heart at the end of week 8."

Look at the 8 weeks scan. Is that just a 'collection of cells'?

http://baby2see.com/development/ultr...ans.html#week8

Yet that's pretty early in the pregnancy.

===

Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.

You didn't answer my questions!

===

Answer my question and I might answer yours.

What question?

===

Why would anyone want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.?

No one *wants* unwanted babies to be born, regardless of the cause. The morning after
pill should be readily available to any woman who asks, in my opinion.

You seem to be very worried about the life of an unborn clump of cells
for some reason, why not a little concern for the woman and the
unwanted child?

Again, look at the 8 weeks scan. Is that just a 'clump of cells'?

http://baby2see.com/development/ultr...ans.html#week8

And that's pretty early in the pregnancy.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 15:16:57 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 14:29:59 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:17:11 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:19:44 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 16:56:15 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:00:07 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 12:37:20 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:04:35 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 01:15:17 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/26/2015 7:52 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:40:19 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Nothing religious about it. It is life. It is human.

===

That's ridiculous. There's nothing human about a small collection of
cells that start multiplying.



The problem with that argument (which has been the common accepted
consensus until recently) is that it has been determined by scientists
that the small collection of multiplying cells contains all the DNA of a
human being and is certainly living and growing from the moment of
fertilization. Nothing religious about it at all.

===

It's still a philosophical/religious issue. There's nothing human
about a clump of DNA even though the potential is there. Trying to
pinpoint the exact moment a fetus becomes "human" is a more or less a
pointless exercise except for those who are dead set against abortion
on religious grounds. Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me.

I noted, upon my return, that you conveniently skipped this:

When do you consider a human life to exist?

"At the end of the 8th week, the elbows become obvious, the feet, hands and even the
fingers maybe distinguishable. The brain cavities are easily seen as large 'holes' in
the embryonic head. The heart rate has increased to 160 bpm and the heart covers
about 50% of the chest area. In some cases, it is possible to recognize the
fluid-filled stomach below the heart at the end of week 8."

Look at the 8 weeks scan. Is that just a 'collection of cells'?

http://baby2see.com/development/ultr...ans.html#week8

Yet that's pretty early in the pregnancy.

===

Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.

You didn't answer my questions!

===

Answer my question and I might answer yours.

What question?

===

Why would anyone want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.?

No one *wants* unwanted babies to be born, regardless of the cause. The morning after
pill should be readily available to any woman who asks, in my opinion.

You seem to be very worried about the life of an unborn clump of cells
for some reason, why not a little concern for the woman and the
unwanted child?

Again, look at the 8 weeks scan. Is that just a 'clump of cells'?

http://baby2see.com/development/ultr...ans.html#week8

And that's pretty early in the pregnancy.


No problem, we can just wait until they have committed a few dozen
felonies and we can kill them then.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 15:16:57 -0400, John H. wrote:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 14:29:59 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:17:11 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 17:19:44 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 16:56:15 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 13:00:07 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 12:37:20 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 09:04:35 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 01:15:17 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/26/2015 7:52 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 19:40:19 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Nothing religious about it. It is life. It is human.

===

That's ridiculous. There's nothing human about a small collection of
cells that start multiplying.



The problem with that argument (which has been the common accepted
consensus until recently) is that it has been determined by scientists
that the small collection of multiplying cells contains all the DNA of a
human being and is certainly living and growing from the moment of
fertilization. Nothing religious about it at all.

===

It's still a philosophical/religious issue. There's nothing human
about a clump of DNA even though the potential is there. Trying to
pinpoint the exact moment a fetus becomes "human" is a more or less a
pointless exercise except for those who are dead set against abortion
on religious grounds. Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me.

I noted, upon my return, that you conveniently skipped this:

When do you consider a human life to exist?

"At the end of the 8th week, the elbows become obvious, the feet, hands and even the
fingers maybe distinguishable. The brain cavities are easily seen as large 'holes' in
the embryonic head. The heart rate has increased to 160 bpm and the heart covers
about 50% of the chest area. In some cases, it is possible to recognize the
fluid-filled stomach below the heart at the end of week 8."

Look at the 8 weeks scan. Is that just a 'collection of cells'?

http://baby2see.com/development/ultr...ans.html#week8

Yet that's pretty early in the pregnancy.

===

Why anyone would want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world is beyond me, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.

You didn't answer my questions!

===

Answer my question and I might answer yours.

What question?

===

Why would anyone want to force a woman to bring
an unwanted baby into the world, particularly a woman who
had been raped, subject to incest, a pre-teen, etc.?

No one *wants* unwanted babies to be born, regardless of the cause. The morning after
pill should be readily available to any woman who asks, in my opinion.

You seem to be very worried about the life of an unborn clump of cells
for some reason, why not a little concern for the woman and the
unwanted child?

Again, look at the 8 weeks scan. Is that just a 'clump of cells'?

http://baby2see.com/development/ultr...ans.html#week8

And that's pretty early in the pregnancy.

~~crickets~~
--

Ban idiots, not guns!