On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 13:17:18 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The new tile, including installation, will be covered under the insurance. They will
not make an attempt to save the old tile - takes too much time and careful work.
They'll just bust it up and get it out. Then the floor can dry and the mold can be
tackled. The mold in the walls will go out with the sheetrock. There may be mold on
the back of some of the kitchen cabinets, but hopefully it can be cleaned off once
the cabinets are removed.
--

That is what the mold spray is for. It will knock down the mold but it
usually has a dye in it so you can't use it on exposed materials
When my wife had the "mold guy" in they sprayed trusses, studs and
affected block. You should get a certificate when he is done that says
everything is OK. That might be important when the house is sold.

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 13:38:14 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:


And Harbor Freight has a 10" tile saw that will work well for home use. Is
about $170 with blade. Sign up and get a 20% off coupon. Cheaper than
renting.

Renting a real one is better than using a junker for a week.
We knew a guy in the business who let me use his spare. I only needed
it for a few days,.
On small projects I just use my grinder with a diamond blade. Dirty
but effective.

wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

The other theories centered around the grade of the pipe and possible
electrolysis caused by improper grounding practices.
This has been going on around her for the 35 years I have been here.

They had the same deal in St Pete. One of the reasons I sold my condo
was the number of people who had their floors torn up to replace
leaking pipe. Mine wasn't done yet and I didn't want the issue to bite
me.

Probably not the use, but the heat.

John H. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:30:14 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 9/3/2015 12:57 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:36:23 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 9/3/2015 12:24 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 10:38:21 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 9/3/2015 10:24 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 09:21:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/3/2015 7:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 07:27:00 -0400, John H.
wrote:


We came home to a puddle in the basement the week before last.
It has become a major
problem. Apparently a pinhole leak has been going for quite some
time, maybe a year
or more. The sheetrock walls between the kitchen and powder room have been soaked.
There is also a lot of moisture under the tiles in the kitchen
around the same areas.
The wall covering (sheetrock) will have to come down, along with
the kitchen cabinets
on that side. Plus, the tile floor and tile above the counter
will have to be taken
out. The entire kitchen floor will be retiled.

If that wasn't enough, the leak has also caused a lot of mold.
If the mold under the
tile cannot be cleaned, then the subfloor will also have to be replaced.

So, that's where things stand now. We're waiting on the insurance to approve the
estimate for the mold removal.

But, the trip to Shenandoah River State Park was a blast. Floating down the
Shenandoah on a tube has got to be one of the most relaxing activities going.

===

Bad news John, sorry to hear that. Is it a pipe leak? It's really
important to stay ahead of the mold issue.


For sure. One of our neighbors in Florida had a major roof leak during
one of the hurricanes and they didn't address the water damage soon
enough. Mold set in and they ended up having to abandon the house and
have it razed.

One of our houses also had some serious water damage to the inside. The
roof didn't leak but the wind blew the main entry double doors open on
the first floor (they opened inward) and then all the rest of the
double doors on the first and second floor were blown open outward.
Wind swept rain throughout the house resulted. Fortunately, my nephew
(who is a contractor) was there and he immediately ripped up the rugs
and any wet floorboards on the second story and cutout any wet sheet
rock sections that he found throughout the house. The first floor was
all tile on a concrete slab, so no floor damage was done there. He let
everything dry out and then replaced the affected sections. Fortunately
we didn't have any mold issues. I understand that once it starts, it
can be a bitch to get rid of.

Well, I'll let you know. It has most definitely started. The big question is how hard
will it be to get off the subfloor under the tiles. If it can be dried and either
cleaned or sanded off, then that will be done. Otherwise the whole floor will need
replacing.

This sucks.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Does your house have a basement? If so, the wetness and mold may not
have traveled too far assuming your base floor is planks and not plywood.

The basement has a concrete floor. No mold there. The mold is in the walls under the
leak and, most likely, in the material under the ceramic tile in the kitchen and
bath. I'm not sure what that material is, depends on how much money the folks before
me spent on putting in the tile.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Silly boy! I was referring to the base floor under the the kitchen sub
floor. Is the Harry "cant read" disease spreading?

There is a big difference between a 'combat' engineer and a 'construction' engineer!
I read 'base floor' as 'basement floor'. Keep in mind that I'm getting pretty old.

Above the joists is plywood. I don't know if any 'backerboard' was used between the
plywood and the ceramic tile.

I hope Harry's disease isn't spreading. But, it could be.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Apparently, "we" don't know the proper terms for the various flooring
components. Greg could help us out with that. My understanding is that
with sheet or tile flooring there is an intermediate floor laid for
purposes of strength, stability, and seam reinforcing.
Good luck with the project.

I think the intermediate floor material, if any, is a function of the money invested
in the tile floor. The mitigation technician (his words, not mine) said he's seen
ceramic tile glued to linoleum.

We have a concrete slab. Concrete cracks. About 3 years ago we got tired
of replacing cracked ceramic tiles, periodically. We removed all the
tile and carpet and had the slab properly prepared to receive good
quality porcelain tiles. Haven't had a single tile crack since. Knock on
wood.

That sounds like something worth looking into. Are porcelain tiles much more
expensive? I'd probably have to pay the difference in cost of tiles.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Probably not the tile, but the prep and installation. Do not thin set to
the concrete floor, but to a floating underlayment.

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 15:22:24 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

The other theories centered around the grade of the pipe and possible
electrolysis caused by improper grounding practices.
This has been going on around her for the 35 years I have been here.

They had the same deal in St Pete. One of the reasons I sold my condo
was the number of people who had their floors torn up to replace
leaking pipe. Mine wasn't done yet and I didn't want the issue to bite
me.

Probably not the use, but the heat.

More likely the water. Heat should not be much of an issue in air
conditioned space.

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 15:35:50 -0400, John H.
wrote:

That sounds like something worth looking into. Are porcelain tiles much more
expensive? I'd probably have to pay the difference in cost of tiles.

You might want to buy the tile yourself if you have tile outlets
around that sell odd lots. That is where the bargains are. Porcelain
tile is harder as a general rule. It puts up with more abuse.

This is Lea and it lived through a serious remodel. It is over
linoleum.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...the%20tile.jpg

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...the%20slab.jpg

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi..._the_block.jpg

On 9/3/15 4:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 15:22:24 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

The other theories centered around the grade of the pipe and possible
electrolysis caused by improper grounding practices.
This has been going on around her for the 35 years I have been here.

They had the same deal in St Pete. One of the reasons I sold my condo
was the number of people who had their floors torn up to replace
leaking pipe. Mine wasn't done yet and I didn't want the issue to bite
me.

Probably not the use, but the heat.

More likely the water. Heat should not be much of an issue in air
conditioned space.


Couple of years ago, a water line going to an outside faucet separated a
bit where the line met the faucet inside the wall and over time, a
"spot" of mold developed on the inside drywall and spread. We pulled off
all the drywall on that wall and five feet down an adjacent wall, pulled
the insulation, et cetera, and I spend two weeks cleaning off the mold
on the 2x6's and spraying them with a commercial anti-mold.
Then we let it dry for another two weeks. No new mold appeared and we
had it drywalled closed. No new mold has appeared. Mold is a bitch.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:30:26 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 9/3/2015 3:35 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:30:14 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 9/3/2015 12:57 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:36:23 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 9/3/2015 12:24 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 10:38:21 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 9/3/2015 10:24 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 09:21:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/3/2015 7:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 07:27:00 -0400, John H.
wrote:


We came home to a puddle in the basement the week before last. It has become a major
problem. Apparently a pinhole leak has been going for quite some time, maybe a year
or more. The sheetrock walls between the kitchen and powder room have been soaked.
There is also a lot of moisture under the tiles in the kitchen around the same areas.
The wall covering (sheetrock) will have to come down, along with the kitchen cabinets
on that side. Plus, the tile floor and tile above the counter will have to be taken
out. The entire kitchen floor will be retiled.

If that wasn't enough, the leak has also caused a lot of mold. If the mold under the
tile cannot be cleaned, then the subfloor will also have to be replaced.

So, that's where things stand now. We're waiting on the insurance to approve the
estimate for the mold removal.

But, the trip to Shenandoah River State Park was a blast. Floating down the
Shenandoah on a tube has got to be one of the most relaxing activities going.

===

Bad news John, sorry to hear that. Is it a pipe leak? It's really
important to stay ahead of the mold issue.


For sure. One of our neighbors in Florida had a major roof leak during
one of the hurricanes and they didn't address the water damage soon
enough. Mold set in and they ended up having to abandon the house and
have it razed.

One of our houses also had some serious water damage to the inside. The
roof didn't leak but the wind blew the main entry double doors open on
the first floor (they opened inward) and then all the rest of the
double doors on the first and second floor were blown open outward.
Wind swept rain throughout the house resulted. Fortunately, my nephew
(who is a contractor) was there and he immediately ripped up the rugs
and any wet floorboards on the second story and cutout any wet sheet
rock sections that he found throughout the house. The first floor was
all tile on a concrete slab, so no floor damage was done there. He let
everything dry out and then replaced the affected sections. Fortunately
we didn't have any mold issues. I understand that once it starts, it
can be a bitch to get rid of.

Well, I'll let you know. It has most definitely started. The big question is how hard
will it be to get off the subfloor under the tiles. If it can be dried and either
cleaned or sanded off, then that will be done. Otherwise the whole floor will need
replacing.

This sucks.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Does your house have a basement? If so, the wetness and mold may not
have traveled too far assuming your base floor is planks and not plywood.

The basement has a concrete floor. No mold there. The mold is in the walls under the
leak and, most likely, in the material under the ceramic tile in the kitchen and
bath. I'm not sure what that material is, depends on how much money the folks before
me spent on putting in the tile.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Silly boy! I was referring to the base floor under the the kitchen sub
floor. Is the Harry "cant read" disease spreading?

There is a big difference between a 'combat' engineer and a 'construction' engineer!
I read 'base floor' as 'basement floor'. Keep in mind that I'm getting pretty old.

Above the joists is plywood. I don't know if any 'backerboard' was used between the
plywood and the ceramic tile.

I hope Harry's disease isn't spreading. But, it could be.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Apparently, "we" don't know the proper terms for the various flooring
components. Greg could help us out with that. My understanding is that
with sheet or tile flooring there is an intermediate floor laid for
purposes of strength, stability, and seam reinforcing.
Good luck with the project.

I think the intermediate floor material, if any, is a function of the money invested
in the tile floor. The mitigation technician (his words, not mine) said he's seen
ceramic tile glued to linoleum.

We have a concrete slab. Concrete cracks. About 3 years ago we got tired
of replacing cracked ceramic tiles, periodically. We removed all the
tile and carpet and had the slab properly prepared to receive good
quality porcelain tiles. Haven't had a single tile crack since. Knock on
wood.

That sounds like something worth looking into. Are porcelain tiles much more
expensive? I'd probably have to pay the difference in cost of tiles.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Ours was about $7 per SF. Labor is what cost you.

In my case the labor will be free...except for the deductible.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:34:37 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 9/3/2015 3:39 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:32:38 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 9/3/2015 1:17 PM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 13:05:50 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:24:09 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 10:38:21 -0400, Justan Olphart wrote:

On 9/3/2015 10:24 AM, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 09:21:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/3/2015 7:53 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 07:27:00 -0400, John H.
wrote:


We came home to a puddle in the basement the week before last. It has become a major
problem. Apparently a pinhole leak has been going for quite some time, maybe a year
or more. The sheetrock walls between the kitchen and powder room have been soaked.
There is also a lot of moisture under the tiles in the kitchen around the same areas.
The wall covering (sheetrock) will have to come down, along with the kitchen cabinets
on that side. Plus, the tile floor and tile above the counter will have to be taken
out. The entire kitchen floor will be retiled.

If that wasn't enough, the leak has also caused a lot of mold. If the mold under the
tile cannot be cleaned, then the subfloor will also have to be replaced.

So, that's where things stand now. We're waiting on the insurance to approve the
estimate for the mold removal.

But, the trip to Shenandoah River State Park was a blast. Floating down the
Shenandoah on a tube has got to be one of the most relaxing activities going.

===

Bad news John, sorry to hear that. Is it a pipe leak? It's really
important to stay ahead of the mold issue.


For sure. One of our neighbors in Florida had a major roof leak during
one of the hurricanes and they didn't address the water damage soon
enough. Mold set in and they ended up having to abandon the house and
have it razed.

One of our houses also had some serious water damage to the inside. The
roof didn't leak but the wind blew the main entry double doors open on
the first floor (they opened inward) and then all the rest of the
double doors on the first and second floor were blown open outward.
Wind swept rain throughout the house resulted. Fortunately, my nephew
(who is a contractor) was there and he immediately ripped up the rugs
and any wet floorboards on the second story and cutout any wet sheet
rock sections that he found throughout the house. The first floor was
all tile on a concrete slab, so no floor damage was done there. He let
everything dry out and then replaced the affected sections. Fortunately
we didn't have any mold issues. I understand that once it starts, it
can be a bitch to get rid of.

Well, I'll let you know. It has most definitely started. The big question is how hard
will it be to get off the subfloor under the tiles. If it can be dried and either
cleaned or sanded off, then that will be done. Otherwise the whole floor will need
replacing.

This sucks.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Does your house have a basement? If so, the wetness and mold may not
have traveled too far assuming your base floor is planks and not plywood.

The basement has a concrete floor. No mold there. The mold is in the walls under the
leak and, most likely, in the material under the ceramic tile in the kitchen and
bath. I'm not sure what that material is, depends on how much money the folks before
me spent on putting in the tile.

Mold may be a little over hyped. If you live in a place like Florida,
mold is just a fact of life and I seem to remember it being pretty hot
and humid in DC too.

I bet your weather reports list mold and pollen counts in the air.

All that said, you should mitigate the mold and remove the moisture
wherever possible but don't go nuts trying to get the last .01%
There is a spray that kills mold on the wood (not bleach) and removal
of any damaged wood should be done.
There is a chance that you can pop up the tile and save it but chances
are you will be buying tile. Labor is going to be at least as much as
the tile unless you do it yourself.
If you are willing to tackle it, check out the tile outlet stores for
odd lots, Most of the time you do not need a whole pallet of tile so
finding a small batch is all you need. When we did our new bathroom,
we were able to get premium grade tile cheaper than the cheap crap at
Home Depot.

The new tile, including installation, will be covered under the insurance. They will
not make an attempt to save the old tile - takes too much time and careful work.
They'll just bust it up and get it out. Then the floor can dry and the mold can be
tackled. The mold in the walls will go out with the sheetrock. There may be mold on
the back of some of the kitchen cabinets, but hopefully it can be cleaned off once
the cabinets are removed.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

Yippee!

The *tile* will be covered, but not necessarily the material *under* the tile. Mold
mitigation is separate from water mitigation and requires it's own approval from the
insurance. I'm hoping there won't be a problem. Will find out tomorrow or maybe later
this evening. The estimate should hit the USAA later this afternoon.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

It's all how you word it. Claim water damage only. De-lamination, rot,
swelling, etc.

The restoration company works directly with USAA. I won't see anything until the
decision is made. Then I suppose I could try to fight it, if it's not in my favor.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On 9/3/2015 4:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 15:22:24 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

The other theories centered around the grade of the pipe and possible
electrolysis caused by improper grounding practices.
This has been going on around her for the 35 years I have been here.

They had the same deal in St Pete. One of the reasons I sold my condo
was the number of people who had their floors torn up to replace
leaking pipe. Mine wasn't done yet and I didn't want the issue to bite
me.

Probably not the use, but the heat.

More likely the water. Heat should not be much of an issue in air
conditioned space.



I took the "heat" reference to mean the hot water pipes being more prone
to developing leaks. A/C would have very little affect on
pipes buried in walls, plus the delta T difference is minimal.