On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)



There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely
plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as
the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic.

On 10/5/2015 7:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)



There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely
plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as
the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic.




Even has a 3D printed plastic spring.

On 10/5/2015 7:32 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)



There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely
plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as
the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic.




Here's a picture of it. 16 parts, 15 of which are all 3D printed
plastic. Only the hardware store variety nail that is used as the
firing pin is not printed or plastic.

http://tinyurl.com/p3vcfxj

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)


===

Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision
templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers,
Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a
matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a
couple of "how to" videos on YouTube.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:51:52 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...


That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

What's your hurry? I thought gun deaths numbers are
declining.

They are declining and mass shootings are a very small fraction of
that. I am just trying to make the idea less appealing to the losers
who think it is the way to get some momentary glory.

If CNN had pictures of a few shooters who were beaten to death by
their would be victims before their spree went very far, these
assholes might find another way to make their mark on the world.

Something like this

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/stoner.wmv

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 17:57:13 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/5/2015 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:44:41 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote:
The Johnny spews..

"One round'll getcha all."

Heard that a bunch of times!"


Really...did you ever learn your lessons?



Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect
yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much
happy horse****.

When the alternative is to sit still and wait your turn to be shot,
why is fighting back "horse ****". The shooter wants to control the
room, don't let him.
These guys are insecure losers most of the time and if you can disrupt
their plan, and confuse them, you might get the seconds you need to
take him down. You certainly do not want to follow the order to all
get in one corner. Spread out and try to surround him. If nothing
else, it is harder to hit a moving target.
I would rather die fighting than praying or crying.

I also believe filling the air with thrown objects will enhance the
chaos and disrupt his plan.

Are you really going to be the one saying "there is nothing you can
do"?



It sounds like a great plan but it's something you would only see in the
movies. Events are happening quickly, the victims are unarmed
civilians and they don't have the benefit of practice drills to
condition themselves to the sound of flying bullets whizzing their heads
as they look for the book they are supposed to chuck at the shooter. In
short, they are terrified and the instinct is to cover your head and
duck. There might be one or two, like the ex-military guy
who tried to go after the shooter (and got shot 7 times in the process)
but for the most part the victims are not in any way prepared.

The situation in the airplane over Pennsylvania on 9/11 was totally
different. Nobody was shooting and the people that rushed the hijackers
knew what was happening (received cell phone calls about the the Twin
Towers). They had time to converse and come up with a plan among
themselves knowing there weren't any other options.

Nobody has told people what to do. The whole philosophy comes from
robbery advice. Cooperate, give up your stuff and maybe you will be
OK.
This is a totally different thing. Certainly if you can hide, do it
but if you have a plan when you get caught, you have a lot better
chance than simply waiting to be shot.

It is really pretty simple, scatter and throw anything you can pick
up. The guy might just try another room. If nothing else, he will
always be trying to look over his shoulder instead of having everyone
lined up right in front of him.
If you ever had a teenager, you know they are familiar with throwing
stuff when they get mad.
Why not just teach this?
What do you have to lose?

I think you and Harry would be surprised at how much aggression is
inside kids these days and all you have to do is bring it out. Use the
power of the mob!

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 18:03:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/5/2015 5:05 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:51:03 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/5/15 4:46 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 15:44:41 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 10/5/15 3:35 PM, True North wrote:
The Johnny spews..

"One round'll getcha all."

Heard that a bunch of times!"


Really...did you ever learn your lessons?



Frankly, I think the "advice" being given here on how best to protect
yourself and others from a mass murderer armed with firearms is so much
happy horse****.

When the alternative is to sit still and wait your turn to be shot,
why is fighting back "horse ****". The shooter wants to control the
room, don't let him.
These guys are insecure losers most of the time and if you can disrupt
their plan, and confuse them, you might get the seconds you need to
take him down. You certainly do not want to follow the order to all
get in one corner. Spread out and try to surround him. If nothing
else, it is harder to hit a moving target.
I would rather die fighting than praying or crying.

I also believe filling the air with thrown objects will enhance the
chaos and disrupt his plan.

Are you really going to be the one saying "there is nothing you can
do"?



I don't think you're going to get a bunch of students in an American
classroom to do much of anything in concert. Plus, if a shooter walks
into a classroom, the students will likely be sitting down at desks or
maybe in a lecture hall.


Maybe that is something they should work on.
I think you are just underestimating what people can do
Passengers fighting back has more to do with stopping hijacking than
anything TSA is doing. There still seems to be no problem getting a
gun on a plane but I doubt you could take an airliner with an uzi
today. People understand this is not going to be a trip to Cuba. This
guy plans on killing everyone.

The crux is to keep firearms out of the hands of the crazies. There are
things that can be down that will help in that direction.

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.




"Hey Joe, what's that there you're packin'?"

"War and Peace" ... you?

"Adventures of Tom Sawyer. Light weight but packs a punch".




Way back when I started this, I suggested just putting some missiles
in the room although I bet if you looked around you would see plenty
right there. I suggested if you got a lap top charger swinging in a 3'
cord and let it go, you would generate a whole lot of foot pounds on
the terminal end. One of those whizzes by your head and you would be
ducking at everything else.

I am sure guys trained in tactics could do a better job than the spit
balling I am doing here but the objective is to make these kind of
places harder targets than they are now. That would be very easy if
the current plan is to just cooperate until everyone is dead.

Simply teaching people to scatter instead of allowing themselves to be
bunched up is a start.

On Mon, 5 Oct 2015 19:32:06 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/5/2015 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)



There's at least one handgun called "The Liberator" that is completely
plastic and 3D printed except for one part. It uses a common nail as
the firing pin. Everything else, including the barrel, is plastic.



I saw that and I saw him fire a shot out of it but I bet up around
round 2 or 3 it is a musket and after that it is potentiality a
grenade. (even with a relatively wimpy round like the .380 this gun
shoots)
Barrel erosion will be a serious problem, even in a single shot gun
like this.
To make a real gun, you need a steel barrel, particularly an
"automatic" weapon like Wayne described. The physics of ejecting a
round and loading another one requires some mass too.

I made single shot "zip guns" when I was about 12-13 but I would not
try to make anything that was a repeater. You can make a very
serviceable single shot 12 gauge from stuff you get at Home Depot. The
best pipe is actually from the "monkey bars" down at the grade school.
You will have to trick someone into threading it tho. ;-)

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)


===

Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision
templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers,
Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a
matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a
couple of "how to" videos on YouTube.

If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much
everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore.

I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of
fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the
hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost
as fast as the bullet went out the front.

On 10/5/15 9:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:59:11 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 19:22:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:25:21 -0400,
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2015 17:05:51 -0400, wrote:

That might do something in 20 or 30 years but we need an answer now.
There are hundreds of millions of guns here now, if they stopped
making them tomorrow.

===

Before too long someone will figure out how to make an automatic
weapon on a 3D printer. Control that.

As soon as they make a 3d printer that works with steel "ink".
Right now all they can make are the parts that don't see the pressures
and the impacts. Guys have made the frame and some other parts.
OTOH those parts that can't be plastic are generally consumables so
they are not serialized or controlled. (barrels, firing pins,
extractors, springs and such)


===

Even the 3D printers of today can be used to make high precision
templates which an amateur machinist can use with jigs, routers,
Dremel tools, etc. to turn out everything that's needed. It's just a
matter of time before the plans show up for downloading along with a
couple of "how to" videos on YouTube.

If you have a lathe and a milling machine you can make pretty much
everything but the barrel, assuming you are making a rifled bore.

I made a smooth bore .22 that worked from a car antenna and a bunch of
fiberglass wrapping. It was chucked up in a cap gun with most of the
hammer filed away. The problem was the brass came out the back almost
as fast as the bullet went out the front.



Were you a Shark or a Jet?