You guys REALLY need to spend some time on a COMMERCIAL SHIP. 100
gallons of diesel fuel pumped overboard is like a teaspoon in a lake.
They pump more than you store overboard just STARTING IT!



Larry W4CSC

3600 planes with transponders are burning 8-10 million
gallons of kerosene per hour over the USA. R-12 car air
conditioners are responsible for the ozone hole, right?


One small problemo with the comparison:

A commercial ship or a warship is involved in essential activities. Even *if*
they pollute 1000 times as much as a recreational boater, it's only because
steps have been taken to reduce to that from 10,000 times.

If we all decide that it's OK to pollute the water as long as it's less than a
containership or an aircraft carrier pollutes,
we'll be boating in one hell of a filthy soup in short order.

Because our recreational boating is an "optional" exercise, undertaken on
public waterways, we should try to leave the smallest possible dung pile in our
wake.
That doesn't mean we all need to take up sailing, IMO, but we should try to see
that whatever configuration we do enjoy is operating cleanly and efficiently
within the limitations of its design.

Gould 0738 wrote:


A commercial ship or a warship is involved in essential activities. Even *if*
they pollute 1000 times as much as a recreational boater, it's only because
steps have been taken to reduce to that from 10,000 times.

Won't speak for waships because I don't work on them but as far as
freighters, containerships, and tankers are concerned we discharge far
less than the average Bayliner.

Gray funnel liners (government owned, civilian crewed, ships of the
Ready Reserve Fleet and Military Sealift Command) are "publicly owned
vessels" and as such are, like warships, technically exempt from the
laws and requirements imposed on civil shipping but in fact follow
exactly the same practices as other US flagged civil shipping. Just
because we might not get fined or jailed for pollution doesn't mean we
pollute ...

We do not pump bilges overboard within 12 miles of the coast, all bilge
water is passed through a 15 ppm oily water separator or held for
discharge ashore to a treatment facility.

On tankers we do not even let rainwater go over the side in a loading or
discharge port, along with bilge water it is collected in a slop tank
and discharged ashore.

A modern commercial vessel is cleaner than practically any pleasure
vessel afloat. There are more oil slicks passing through my marina in a
week than the Port of Seattle freight and oil terminals see in years.

Rick

"Rick" wrote in message
ink.net...
Gould 0738 wrote:


A commercial ship or a warship is involved in essential activities. Even
*if*
they pollute 1000 times as much as a recreational boater, it's only
because
steps have been taken to reduce to that from 10,000 times.

Won't speak for waships because I don't work on them but as far as
freighters, containerships, and tankers are concerned we discharge far
less than the average Bayliner.

Gray funnel liners (government owned, civilian crewed, ships of the
Ready Reserve Fleet and Military Sealift Command) are "publicly owned
vessels" and as such are, like warships, technically exempt from the
laws and requirements imposed on civil shipping but in fact follow
exactly the same practices as other US flagged civil shipping. Just
because we might not get fined or jailed for pollution doesn't mean we
pollute ...

We do not pump bilges overboard within 12 miles of the coast, all bilge
water is passed through a 15 ppm oily water separator or held for
discharge ashore to a treatment facility.

On tankers we do not even let rainwater go over the side in a loading or
discharge port, along with bilge water it is collected in a slop tank
and discharged ashore.

A modern commercial vessel is cleaner than practically any pleasure
vessel afloat. There are more oil slicks passing through my marina in a
week than the Port of Seattle freight and oil terminals see in years.

Rick

Of course ballast tanks are a different thing, or did those round gobies and
zebra mussels get into the great lakes by immaculate conception? Why are
the shippers resisting flushing ballast tanks with salt water en route?

del cecchi

Del Cecchi wrote:

Of course ballast tanks are a different thing, or did those round gobies and
zebra mussels get into the great lakes by immaculate conception? Why are
the shippers resisting flushing ballast tanks with salt water en route?

Have you considered that the reason ballast exchange (BWE)laws now exist
is because traditional practices were discovered to be the source of
those zebra mussels and gobies?

There is little "resistance" to ballast water exchange. It has been
required by the International Maritime Organization since 1997.

There are several options under consideration to replace BWE since for
many ships exchanging ballast water in mid ocean is akin to a sailboat
exchanging its keel in the same conditions. Ballast is onboard to ensure
the ship's stability and removing it places the ship in a very
precarious state in less than ideal sea and weather conditions. It is a
time consuming practice and some runs do not provide enough time in mid
ocean, if the ship even reaches mid ocean, to completely exchange all
ballast.

There are several other systems under development to sterilize ballast
water. Ballast water is tested for exotics and to ensure that ballast
exchange has been conducted. A Google search will enlighten you with
many documents concerning this issue. But like any other activity, there
are those who will falsify documents, take shortcuts or evade the
regulations, they are not representative of the industry any more than
the yachtie who pumps his holding tank into the channel or pumps his oil
bilge into the marina at night is representative of the entire yachting
community.

Rick

"Rick" wrote in message
k.net...
Del Cecchi wrote:

Of course ballast tanks are a different thing, or did those round gobies
and
zebra mussels get into the great lakes by immaculate conception? Why
are
the shippers resisting flushing ballast tanks with salt water en route?

Have you considered that the reason ballast exchange (BWE)laws now exist
is because traditional practices were discovered to be the source of
those zebra mussels and gobies?

There is little "resistance" to ballast water exchange. It has been
required by the International Maritime Organization since 1997.

There are several options under consideration to replace BWE since for
many ships exchanging ballast water in mid ocean is akin to a sailboat
exchanging its keel in the same conditions. Ballast is onboard to ensure
the ship's stability and removing it places the ship in a very
precarious state in less than ideal sea and weather conditions. It is a
time consuming practice and some runs do not provide enough time in mid
ocean, if the ship even reaches mid ocean, to completely exchange all
ballast.

There are several other systems under development to sterilize ballast
water. Ballast water is tested for exotics and to ensure that ballast
exchange has been conducted. A Google search will enlighten you with
many documents concerning this issue. But like any other activity, there
are those who will falsify documents, take shortcuts or evade the
regulations, they are not representative of the industry any more than
the yachtie who pumps his holding tank into the channel or pumps his oil
bilge into the marina at night is representative of the entire yachting
community.

Rick

We got spiny water fleas in 84, zebra mussels in 88, and round and tube-nose
goby in 90. And in 97 something was finally done. Hot damn. Way to react
quickly there. And I don't care if you swap the bilge water in mid ocean or
5 miles off the beach. If there isn't time then slow down.

del cecchi

"Rick" wrote in message
k.net...
Del Cecchi wrote:

Of course ballast tanks are a different thing, or did those round gobies
and
zebra mussels get into the great lakes by immaculate conception? Why
are
the shippers resisting flushing ballast tanks with salt water en route?

Have you considered that the reason ballast exchange (BWE)laws now exist
is because traditional practices were discovered to be the source of
those zebra mussels and gobies?

There is little "resistance" to ballast water exchange. It has been
required by the International Maritime Organization since 1997.

snip
I forgot this one, just found. I guess your systems aren't working so well

Cercopagis pengoi is the latest exotic crustacean to invade the Great Lakes.
This predatory cladoceran was first identified by Canadian scientists in
early August of 1998, and was reported via Internet by Dr. Hugh MacIsaac at
the end of August . Cercopagis is indigenous to the Caspian, Azov, and Aral
seas (Rivier 1998), and was reported to have invaded the Baltic Sea in 1992
(Ojaveer & Lumberg 1995, Ojaveer 1997).

Del Cecchi wrote:

And I don't care if you swap the bilge water in mid ocean or
5 miles off the beach.

It is obvious you don't really care and can't be bothered to research
the efforts underway to reduce the problem. Rather than waste my time
arguing with you I will let your statement speak for itself, it clearly
shows the level of your understanding.

If you feel the need to lash out in a fit of ignorant rage go down to
the docks and scream at the nearest ship.

Rick

"Rick" wrote in message
k.net...
Del Cecchi wrote:

And I don't care if you swap the bilge water in mid ocean or
5 miles off the beach.

It is obvious you don't really care and can't be bothered to research
the efforts underway to reduce the problem. Rather than waste my time
arguing with you I will let your statement speak for itself, it clearly
shows the level of your understanding.

If you feel the need to lash out in a fit of ignorant rage go down to
the docks and scream at the nearest ship.

Rick

Oh you are so noble. Sorry to disturb your existence with my little list of
exotic invaders brought to the great lakes by pristine, environmentally
concerned international shipping industry.

I bet they are taking these actions to clean their ballast out of sheer
altruistic motives.

del

I used a water switch from a washing machine. I don't remember the size of the
PVC cap but it was used by a lot of the local shrimpers in their old wooden
boats ( read leak a lot ).

The switch is usually in the control top part. They recommended using a
smaller longer hose and mounted the switch high on the bulkhead.

Mine worked for a little over 5 years with out problems. ( Sold the boat ).

It would take a little experimenting but easy engulf to find the cap size.
They heater a brass hose barb and just screwed it in to the hole, I drilled &
taped it. It isn’t boat pretty but very useful.

For the delay the Radio Shack idea seems the best.

Mike.
*****************

However I am sick of replacing bilge pump switches. ( I have a
shed full of floats!)

I thought to seal a mercury switch and put it on the float when
the float goes up the pump comes on (through a good relay)

However the switch comes on the pump runs for a very short time
and just clicks on and off driving the relay crazy.
I need to have a delay that will keep the relay pulled in say
5 to 10 seconds before dropping out and resetting.
Anyone have an idea or circuit that will do this for me.
Thanks
Oliver Fleming

Groco makes an air activated switch like this for boats. I have one in mine
and love it. The only thing sticking down into the bilge is a little bell
shaped upside down "cup" with the hose leading up to the switch, a couple of
feet above. When the water rises, the pressure inside the switch triggers
the bilge pump.

"MIDEMETZ" wrote in message
...
I used a water switch from a washing machine. I don't remember the size
of the
PVC cap but it was used by a lot of the local shrimpers in their old
wooden
boats ( read leak a lot ).

The switch is usually in the control top part. They recommended using a
smaller longer hose and mounted the switch high on the bulkhead.

Mine worked for a little over 5 years with out problems. ( Sold the
boat ).

It would take a little experimenting but easy engulf to find the cap size.
They heater a brass hose barb and just screwed it in to the hole, I
drilled &
taped it. It isn't boat pretty but very useful.

For the delay the Radio Shack idea seems the best.

Mike.
*****************

However I am sick of replacing bilge pump switches. ( I have a
shed full of floats!)

I thought to seal a mercury switch and put it on the float when
the float goes up the pump comes on (through a good relay)

However the switch comes on the pump runs for a very short time
and just clicks on and off driving the relay crazy.
I need to have a delay that will keep the relay pulled in say
5 to 10 seconds before dropping out and resetting.
Anyone have an idea or circuit that will do this for me.
Thanks
Oliver Fleming