On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 12:12:23 -0500, Justan Olphart
wrote:

I had a friend whose mother was in a nursing home and her doctor had a
hard tome regulating her meds. She was a mess. My friend changed her
doctor and they agreed to stop ALL her meds and see what happened. She
got better. She then was prescribed certain meds to deal with certain
conditions. She continued to get better. When you prescribe meds to
manage side effects of other meds things can go south fast.

One of my oldest friends has a daughter that they are trying to cure
with chemistry. It seems that shortly after they get her drug cocktail
dialed in, something changes, she goes off on some kind of jag, either
self destructive or violent to others, the cops get involved, she goes
off for "observation" and they come up with a new drug cocktail that
turns her back into a zombie and things are quiet for a while.
He also has a mother in law with Alzheimer living with him.
I am surprised he still has any sanity at all.

On 1/21/2016 2:49 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 12:12:23 -0500, Justan Olphart
wrote:

I had a friend whose mother was in a nursing home and her doctor had a
hard tome regulating her meds. She was a mess. My friend changed her
doctor and they agreed to stop ALL her meds and see what happened. She
got better. She then was prescribed certain meds to deal with certain
conditions. She continued to get better. When you prescribe meds to
manage side effects of other meds things can go south fast.

One of my oldest friends has a daughter that they are trying to cure
with chemistry. It seems that shortly after they get her drug cocktail
dialed in, something changes, she goes off on some kind of jag, either
self destructive or violent to others, the cops get involved, she goes
off for "observation" and they come up with a new drug cocktail that
turns her back into a zombie and things are quiet for a while.
He also has a mother in law with Alzheimer living with him.
I am surprised he still has any sanity at all.

There must be a drug to cure sanity.

On 1/21/2016 1:43 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/16 1:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2016 1:12 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:


I posit that your anecdotal experience with one drug addict does not a
universal rule make. In the course of her 25 years of professional
practice as a licensed psychotherapist my wife has treated hundreds,
maybe thousands, of substance abusers. Most went on through recovery and
are leading productive lives. Some were not able to kick their habits,
be they drugs or booze, regardless of the sort of help they were
getting.


The Palin family's continuous problems are of interest because of Mama
Sarah's self-righteous posturing and lack of mothering skills or
interest.


"Empathy stops here", uh?


Perhaps you should watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LPR7DktumA




That's funny as hell. "I think she's speaking in tongues". Ha!

Watching it, something dawned on me. Trump is a marketing genius.
Sarah makes him look sane and dignified. Maybe it was all planned?

On 1/21/16 4:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2016 1:43 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/16 1:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2016 1:12 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:


I posit that your anecdotal experience with one drug addict does not a
universal rule make. In the course of her 25 years of professional
practice as a licensed psychotherapist my wife has treated hundreds,
maybe thousands, of substance abusers. Most went on through recovery
and
are leading productive lives. Some were not able to kick their habits,
be they drugs or booze, regardless of the sort of help they were
getting.


The Palin family's continuous problems are of interest because of Mama
Sarah's self-righteous posturing and lack of mothering skills or
interest.


"Empathy stops here", uh?


Perhaps you should watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LPR7DktumA




That's funny as hell. "I think she's speaking in tongues". Ha!

Watching it, something dawned on me. Trump is a marketing genius.
Sarah makes him look sane and dignified. Maybe it was all planned?



Perhaps Trump will invite the Governor of Michigan to endorse him...

As for Sarah, I think her presence on the 2008 Republican ticket was a
major reason why McCain lost. I know Palin has fans here, but it's just
hard for me to believe than anyone with a three digit IQ might think her
qualified to hold *any* political office.

On 1/21/2016 2:40 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 11:24:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


So what? Every minute of the day approximately 20 people in the USA is
a victim of domestic violence. It's not unique to the Palin
family. They are not super humans. It's not right, of course, but to
single out one family's problems for political purposes
isn't right either. If Palin's son is guilty, he should face the music.
If he has military related problems, he should also get help, although
the track record of mental health professionals actually making a
difference isn't all that great. Sometimes I think they can cause more
problems than they solve.

The cure seems to be to drug the person into passivity and that is
ironic since it is usually substance abuse that got them into trouble
in the first place. "Self medicating" is bad but if a doctor
prescribes stronger drugs, it is just "medicine".



It is hard for me to fathom that so many people now-a-days have mental
health issues that require drugs to treat. Seems like being on
anti-depressants is the "in" thing. Same with drugging up every other
school kid because they have ADHD or ADD. For cripes sakes, kids are
*supposed* to be hyperactive and wear their parents out. Their
attention spans are short because they are *kids*, not because there is
something wrong with them. I agree with Harry. We are being duped by
the pharmaceutical industry and the arrangements they have with
hospitals and clinics.

On 1/21/16 4:48 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2016 2:40 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 11:24:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


So what? Every minute of the day approximately 20 people in the USA is
a victim of domestic violence. It's not unique to the Palin
family. They are not super humans. It's not right, of course, but to
single out one family's problems for political purposes
isn't right either. If Palin's son is guilty, he should face the music.
If he has military related problems, he should also get help, although
the track record of mental health professionals actually making a
difference isn't all that great. Sometimes I think they can cause more
problems than they solve.

The cure seems to be to drug the person into passivity and that is
ironic since it is usually substance abuse that got them into trouble
in the first place. "Self medicating" is bad but if a doctor
prescribes stronger drugs, it is just "medicine".



It is hard for me to fathom that so many people now-a-days have mental
health issues that require drugs to treat. Seems like being on
anti-depressants is the "in" thing. Same with drugging up every other
school kid because they have ADHD or ADD. For cripes sakes, kids are
*supposed* to be hyperactive and wear their parents out. Their
attention spans are short because they are *kids*, not because there is
something wrong with them. I agree with Harry. We are being duped by
the pharmaceutical industry and the arrangements they have with
hospitals and clinics.



It's cheaper in many cases for the insurance companies to pay to drug up
patients rather than pay for enough pragmatic therapy to help them learn
how to control their aberrant behavior. Sometimes, mild forms of drugs
help to, for example, take the edge off patients without turning
them into near zombies, and the talk therapy can be more effective. But
there's no one hat fits all answer with mental illnesses.

On 1/21/2016 4:43 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/16 4:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2016 1:43 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/16 1:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2016 1:12 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:


I posit that your anecdotal experience with one drug addict does not a
universal rule make. In the course of her 25 years of professional
practice as a licensed psychotherapist my wife has treated hundreds,
maybe thousands, of substance abusers. Most went on through recovery
and
are leading productive lives. Some were not able to kick their habits,
be they drugs or booze, regardless of the sort of help they were
getting.


The Palin family's continuous problems are of interest because of Mama
Sarah's self-righteous posturing and lack of mothering skills or
interest.


"Empathy stops here", uh?


Perhaps you should watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LPR7DktumA




That's funny as hell. "I think she's speaking in tongues". Ha!

Watching it, something dawned on me. Trump is a marketing genius.
Sarah makes him look sane and dignified. Maybe it was all planned?



Perhaps Trump will invite the Governor of Michigan to endorse him...

As for Sarah, I think her presence on the 2008 Republican ticket was a
major reason why McCain lost. I know Palin has fans here, but it's just
hard for me to believe than anyone with a three digit IQ might think her
qualified to hold *any* political office.


The only time she impressed me was when she gave her acceptance speech
as McCain's pick for VP. I didn't have a clue who she was. I remember
watching it on TV and thinking ... Wow, where the hell did she come
from? That speech ... obviously written by someone else ... was well
delivered and it, along with her popularity rating as Gov., caught a lot
of people's attention. That was it though. Every time she opened her
mouth after that she made a fool of herself .... and of McCain.

On 1/21/2016 4:55 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/16 4:48 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2016 2:40 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 11:24:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


So what? Every minute of the day approximately 20 people in the USA is
a victim of domestic violence. It's not unique to the Palin
family. They are not super humans. It's not right, of course, but to
single out one family's problems for political purposes
isn't right either. If Palin's son is guilty, he should face the
music.
If he has military related problems, he should also get help, although
the track record of mental health professionals actually making a
difference isn't all that great. Sometimes I think they can cause more
problems than they solve.

The cure seems to be to drug the person into passivity and that is
ironic since it is usually substance abuse that got them into trouble
in the first place. "Self medicating" is bad but if a doctor
prescribes stronger drugs, it is just "medicine".



It is hard for me to fathom that so many people now-a-days have mental
health issues that require drugs to treat. Seems like being on
anti-depressants is the "in" thing. Same with drugging up every other
school kid because they have ADHD or ADD. For cripes sakes, kids are
*supposed* to be hyperactive and wear their parents out. Their
attention spans are short because they are *kids*, not because there is
something wrong with them. I agree with Harry. We are being duped by
the pharmaceutical industry and the arrangements they have with
hospitals and clinics.



It's cheaper in many cases for the insurance companies to pay to drug up
patients rather than pay for enough pragmatic therapy to help them learn
how to control their aberrant behavior. Sometimes, mild forms of drugs
help to, for example, take the edge off patients without turning
them into near zombies, and the talk therapy can be more effective. But
there's no one hat fits all answer with mental illnesses.


Don't get me started on this subject. Drugging up so many young kids to
cure "aberrant behavior" is a lazy, stupid and selfish practice. We all
displayed aberrant behavior from time to time as kids ... sometimes as
adults ... but it certainly doesn't mean drugs are required. I was a
bit of a creative hell raiser as a kid but my corrective "drug" was a
six foot, five inch, 240lb old man. One of his "looks" usually cured
the aberrant behavior ... and quickly.

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 17:39:29 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/21/2016 4:55 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/16 4:48 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2016 2:40 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 11:24:42 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


So what? Every minute of the day approximately 20 people in the USA is
a victim of domestic violence. It's not unique to the Palin
family. They are not super humans. It's not right, of course, but to
single out one family's problems for political purposes
isn't right either. If Palin's son is guilty, he should face the
music.
If he has military related problems, he should also get help, although
the track record of mental health professionals actually making a
difference isn't all that great. Sometimes I think they can cause more
problems than they solve.

The cure seems to be to drug the person into passivity and that is
ironic since it is usually substance abuse that got them into trouble
in the first place. "Self medicating" is bad but if a doctor
prescribes stronger drugs, it is just "medicine".



It is hard for me to fathom that so many people now-a-days have mental
health issues that require drugs to treat. Seems like being on
anti-depressants is the "in" thing. Same with drugging up every other
school kid because they have ADHD or ADD. For cripes sakes, kids are
*supposed* to be hyperactive and wear their parents out. Their
attention spans are short because they are *kids*, not because there is
something wrong with them. I agree with Harry. We are being duped by
the pharmaceutical industry and the arrangements they have with
hospitals and clinics.



It's cheaper in many cases for the insurance companies to pay to drug up
patients rather than pay for enough pragmatic therapy to help them learn
how to control their aberrant behavior. Sometimes, mild forms of drugs
help to, for example, take the edge off patients without turning
them into near zombies, and the talk therapy can be more effective. But
there's no one hat fits all answer with mental illnesses.


Don't get me started on this subject. Drugging up so many young kids to
cure "aberrant behavior" is a lazy, stupid and selfish practice. We all
displayed aberrant behavior from time to time as kids ... sometimes as
adults ... but it certainly doesn't mean drugs are required. I was a
bit of a creative hell raiser as a kid but my corrective "drug" was a
six foot, five inch, 240lb old man. One of his "looks" usually cured
the aberrant behavior ... and quickly.


I'm on your side on this one. I think most of my grandkids are on Ritalin or some
damn thing. I blame computers and computer games, and parents, of course. But mostly
I blame the damn doctors who prescribe the ****. Of course, smacking a kid on the
butt is not the 'liberal progressive' thing to do. Probably not politically correct
either.

I know of no one in my generation, or the following one, who was classified ADD or
ADHD. Although, I have heard of 'adult onset' ADD. I think that's another
narcissistic ploy for attention.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 16:43:17 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/21/16 4:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2016 1:43 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/21/16 1:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/21/2016 1:12 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:


I posit that your anecdotal experience with one drug addict does not a
universal rule make. In the course of her 25 years of professional
practice as a licensed psychotherapist my wife has treated hundreds,
maybe thousands, of substance abusers. Most went on through recovery
and
are leading productive lives. Some were not able to kick their habits,
be they drugs or booze, regardless of the sort of help they were
getting.


The Palin family's continuous problems are of interest because of Mama
Sarah's self-righteous posturing and lack of mothering skills or
interest.


"Empathy stops here", uh?


Perhaps you should watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LPR7DktumA




That's funny as hell. "I think she's speaking in tongues". Ha!

Watching it, something dawned on me. Trump is a marketing genius.
Sarah makes him look sane and dignified. Maybe it was all planned?



Perhaps Trump will invite the Governor of Michigan to endorse him...

As for Sarah, I think her presence on the 2008 Republican ticket was a
major reason why McCain lost. I know Palin has fans here, but it's just
hard for me to believe than anyone with a three digit IQ might think her
qualified to hold *any* political office.

Trump is playing the media like a fiddle. Everything he does gets him
more free publicity and in the US, there is no such thing as bad
publicity.
I think he will use some of the $billion he says he is willing to
spend, trying to convince people he is not crazy and the media
misrepresented him, using out of context out takes. If Hillary can
convince people she is not a crook and Bernie can split the hair
between socialist and communist, who knows what donald can do.

I am just watching this as a study in how dumb the American voter is
and nothing will amaze me.