On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:32:18 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/14/16 10:03 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 18:24:47 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 7:02:04 PM UTC-5, Keyser Söze wrote:

Oh, I thought the subject included trustworthiness of data. I have a
feeling the data from the DOL is more trustworthy than what the
perpetrators of religious superstition offer.

Maybe that's what you get for thinking. read it again.


Not at all.You just have to understand democratism is a religion to
Harry and he has blind faith in everything they say.
He even believes the Clintons who are the Jim and Tammy Faye of
politics.


I certainly believe in democracy, which is not the same thing as
libertarianism.

How can you be a democrat and believe in democracy when you have a
nomination process that largely ignores the will of their voters? When
I look at Trump I can see why democracy is a flawed process though.
There is also the problem that, as soon as the voters figure out they
can vote themselves generous payments from the government, without
generating the revenue to pay for it, the economy is doomed.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:33:23 -0400, Justan Olphart
wrote:

I was commenting on your "lot of training."

Sounded like you were bragging on your wife.

I did not have a problem with that. She sounds like an accomplished
woman and he has a right to brag about her.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:53:22 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I agree that college is one way to become exposed to the "fundamentals",
but it's certainly not the *only* way .. and after college you are on
your own. My comment was about those who think a degree or degrees
makes one more qualified than anyone else and sit on their laurels all
their lives thinking that the degree is what differentiates them from
others. You seem to fit in that category. Don't you have any
associates or friends you respect for their accomplishments, regardless
of the number of degrees they hold (if any) ?

My first question would be latency. How old is that degree and how
much do you actually remember? I know I had a "relearning" curve on
my dBase stuff after a 15 year layoff. If it was something I had not
seen since the Nixon administration, I would pretty much be starting
from zero. I know that if I had to write anything very complex in
S/360 Assembler I would be hitting the books for a while before it
started coming back. I used to keep up with career system programmers
and even answering their questions now and then about system and I/O
macros. I was way ahead of the professor teaching it at Montgomery
College ... according to his students. Most of that was self taught.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 11:31:42 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/15/16 11:26 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 07:48:54 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Heh. Yet, you are so quick to criticize Greg with regard to his
qualifications to analyze and interpret statistical data.

Maybe someday it will occur to you that the number of college degrees
one holds is *not* the most significant achievement in life.


I think the difference is that traditionally a statistician was
trained in how to take small snippets of data and extrapolate it into
broad statements about how things are.
I will agree that is a science, bordering on an art.
In the days of "big data" we have the opposite situation. we have
masses of detail data on everything and the trick is distilling it
down into a useable form. In that regard, IBM was way ahead of the
curve. We had guys reporting every hour of their day in 6 minute
increments and every part they used along with computerized dispatch
with every detail of every call and a parts distribution system that
recorded every part from the time it was put into the system until it
was sent to the field. We had masses of data and the trick was making
sense of it. That is similar to what is happening today in other
things.



I'm sure that statistical "training" has adapted since you and I were
sprouts.

If they have actually adapted, a lot of their previous skills are
obsolete.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:16:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Continuing education to maintain credentials or licenses is part of
"being on your own".

I am in that situation myself with my inspector license but it is
somewhat a scam to generate revenue for the CEU providers. I
understand that some people will not actually do any learning on their
own and they need a minimum level of competence but I could teach the
courses I have to go to because I do keep up with code changes and new
products on my own. I usually take all of the CEUs acceptible out of
my specialty, just so I can learn new things. I took the SREF course a
few years ago (State Requirements for Educational Facilities). It was
an eye opener.

On 8/15/16 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:16:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Continuing education to maintain credentials or licenses is part of
"being on your own".

I am in that situation myself with my inspector license but it is
somewhat a scam to generate revenue for the CEU providers. I
understand that some people will not actually do any learning on their
own and they need a minimum level of competence but I could teach the
courses I have to go to because I do keep up with code changes and new
products on my own. I usually take all of the CEUs acceptible out of
my specialty, just so I can learn new things. I took the SREF course a
few years ago (State Requirements for Educational Facilities). It was
an eye opener.


That's really too bad that you're being scammed by CEU providers.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 13:16:38 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 8/15/16 1:14 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 12:16:09 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Continuing education to maintain credentials or licenses is part of
"being on your own".

I am in that situation myself with my inspector license but it is
somewhat a scam to generate revenue for the CEU providers. I
understand that some people will not actually do any learning on their
own and they need a minimum level of competence but I could teach the
courses I have to go to because I do keep up with code changes and new
products on my own. I usually take all of the CEUs acceptible out of
my specialty, just so I can learn new things. I took the SREF course a
few years ago (State Requirements for Educational Facilities). It was
an eye opener.


That's really too bad that you're being scammed by CEU providers.

It is all part of the NGOs who develop standards for profit. I am
surprised that is not one of your causes. NFPA did get spanked in
"Veeck" for not providing free access to standards that are adopted as
public laws so you can see them for free now in a limited use PDF.
(like NFPA70 the national electric code). They still sell plenty of
$100 books.
U/L still holds most of their standards back since the language itself
is not adopted as law. You can look in the white book to see what
listing numbers apply to each product but the details of the testing
and the standard they test to is expensive to see.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:49:09 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I always "brag on my wifey," as she is a terrific woman of superior
academic achievement and professional accomplishment, and has literally
saved many lives in many different ways.

===

Too bad she hasn't been able to do more for you.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2016 07:48:54 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Maybe someday it will occur to you that the number of college degrees
one holds is *not* the most significant achievement in life.

===

Only if you're competing to be king of the educated fools. There are
certainly a lot out there and Harry ranks near the top in my
experience. :-)

On 8/15/2016 12:16 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/15/2016 9:56 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/15/16 8:53 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/15/2016 8:17 AM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/15/16 7:48 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/14/2016 10:03 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 8/14/16 8:20 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 19:57:21 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

You're really overgeneralizing in your first sentence. How many
undergrad, grad, and post-grad stats courses have you taken?

I have a whole lot of training in database analysis along with a few
decades of actual experience running numbers that my company was
betting millions on. Sitting in a room listening to some old fart
telling me how they did things with paper records, pencils and
mechanical calculators does not interest me.

My lovely wife took several stats courses as an undergrad, many
more as
a grad student, and even more as a doctoral student. The latter were
taught by university math professors and held at the College of
Engineering. Pretty heavy math and studies in interpretation,
database
analysis and more. I don't recall her mentioning paper records,
pencils,
and calculators. She did use a couple of computer stats courses,
though.
Upon completing her doctoral course work, she had to take and pass a
three day written examination that included doctoral level
statistical
work and after that, a day of oral exam by a handful of professors,
including two from another institution and I believe one of those
guys
was a math professor.


Now, me, I can do some math, but anything beyond really simple
stats is
beyond my knowledge and probably ability.


Heh. Yet, you are so quick to criticize Greg with regard to his
qualifications to analyze and interpret statistical data.

Maybe someday it will occur to you that the number of college degrees
one holds is *not* the most significant achievement in life.




I'm impressed by experts who are taught and learn the fundamentals, and
then progressively add more knowledge and experience through
disciplined
teaching, study and practice.

I agree that college is one way to become exposed to the "fundamentals",
but it's certainly not the *only* way .. and after college you are on
your own. My comment was about those who think a degree or degrees
makes one more qualified than anyone else and sit on their laurels all
their lives thinking that the degree is what differentiates them from
others. You seem to fit in that category. Don't you have any
associates or friends you respect for their accomplishments, regardless
of the number of degrees they hold (if any) ?

I know lots of people with lots of skills, and any number of those
people never set foot in college. If I were hiring a statistician,
though, I'd want to know about their academic credentials.

Your comment about "after college you are on your own" is incorrect.
Many professions require formal, continuing education in order to
maintain credentials or licenses.go onto your apple forums if you want to talk to idiots.


Continuing education to maintain credentials or licenses is part of
"being on your own".


You might think you are addressing idiots but there are many here who
are MUCH smarter than you. Go over to your Apple forums if you want to
talk with idiots.