On 6 Nov 2003 04:51:54 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 5 Nov 2003 04:41:14 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 3 Nov 2003 05:02:04 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

Steven Shelikoff, the racing expert wrote:


Actually, the area of the wheel exposed to the gas in a race car tire is
pretty large compared to the area of the tire since they are wide and
low profile.

Not in all types of racing. Actually, in some types, the narrower the
better, less contact area, less friction. Take a salt flat racer, for
instance.

Yeah, and bicycle racing.

Though it doesn't apply much to boat trailer tires, the heat
conductivity of the gas would work against tire cooling in the case of
race cars and aircraft since it would serve to increase the rate of tire
heating in heavy brake application. Many aircraft tire failures are due

Of course it all depends on the type of racing. During most racing like
road racing, twisty corners, etc, heavy braking is applied but for very
short durations. Superspeedway racing, not at all.

Are you really trying to say that on superspeedways, they don't use
brakes at all? That's pretty stupid. They actually use brakes as
opposed to letting off the throttle, trying to keep the enginer RPM's
up. It takes forever to get those restictor plate engines back up to
speed. They do, however, use completely different brake setups,
smaller rotors, pads. These smaller, thinner rotors will get quite
hot, quite quickly.

Sorry to dissapoint you but at NASCAR restrictor plate races like at
Talladega and Daytona, the driver will almost without exception have
the gas pedal to the floor and not touch the brakes all day.

Pure horse****!!!!! They do, indeed, keep the throttle wide open, but
they DO use the brakes, and quite a lot. They use the brakes as
opposed to letting up on the throttle when drafting, to avoid loosing
engine rpms from what is commonly refered to as "lifting". So, to say
that they "not touch the brakes all day" is, again, false.

As usual, you need to do a little more research. But as usual, even
when you learn that you're wrong, you won't believe it and try to put
some sort of spin on it to avoid admitting you don't know what the hell
you're talking about.

You are an idiot!!! You don't know a damned thing about superspeedway
racing, if you think that they don't use brakes. What an idiot. Pure
and simple. Jeez, if you even ever bothered to listen to someone like
Benny Parsons, or Daryl Waltrip, and on and on, when at a
superspeedway they almost always mention using brakes as opposed to
lifting the throttle. It is a VERY common practice.

You may be listening, but as usual you don't understand what they're
saying. Yes, if they have to slow down they use the brakes. Of course.
It's just that for 99% of the race, they don't have to slow down.
Unlike other types of racing, superspeedway restrictor plate racing does
not require the drive to brake going into any corners. It's flat out
pedal to the metal racing around the entire track. The only time the
may need to touch the brakes is to avoid running into someone else and
to come into the pits.

They even
tape up the brake vents for more downforce since there's little need to
cool the brakes.

Actually, almost all teams don't even use brake ducting on
superspeedways, if that is what you mean by "brake vents".

They don't use brake ducting because they don't use he brakes. If they
used the brakes "quite a lot" as you claim, without any ducting, then
Rick would be right in that the brakes would melt the tires.

No, idiot they don't use ducting because the straights are long enough
for the brakes to cool.

Not if they used the brakes a lot without any ducting. You have no idea
about the aerodynamics of race cars.

That's the exact opposite from short track and road course races where
they use the brakes so much that they need blowers to cool the them
since the vents don't provide enough cooling. They use a beefy braking
setup for those races since they have twice the power available so
there's much more to overcome braking losses, and they really need the
brakes.

The "beefy" brakes are because they have to slow the car from say,
130mph in the straight at Bristol, down to 60mph in turns 1 and 2, in
the shortest amount of time. It's all about being able to hold that
130mph until the last possible moment, slamming on the brakes until
the car takes a "set" (meaning it goes from pushing, or understeer, to
loose, or oversteer.), then being able to get back into the throttle.
Of course, I'm sure, you are an expert, as always!!!!
Oh, and your Nascar tire diatribe is wrong, and stupid.

You're too funny. Are you sure you're not Jax?

Hope you are getting it now, but I doubt it.

Oh, I get it. I get that once again, you're spewing off crap without
having any idea what you're talking about. So now tell us, what happens
to the oil vapor that makes it back to the intake via the breather? Or
do you think all the vapor is magically attracted back into the
crankcase and none makes it to the intake?

Your understanding of engines is just as abysmal as racing.

Steve

Bobby Labonte on restrictor plate racing:

"That type of racing to me isn't as exciting as going 200 miles per hour at
the end of the straightaway at Atlanta (which does not use restrictor
plates) because I can control what I'm doing," said defending series
champion Bobby Labonte.

"I have the opportunity to let off the gas and hit the brake and all that
stuff. At Daytona you don't do that. You just hold it wide open, and then
you're in a pack of cars all day. It's obvious that's not the same type of
racing we're doing everywhere else. It's not the same."
http://tinyurl.com/twmd

I guess you know more about racing than Bobby Labonte?

There's only a few times you ever use brakes during restrictor plate racing-

1) To avoid an accident
2) To slow down while entering the pits
3) To slow down in the turns due to a handling/mechanical problem with the
car.

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...

They do use the brakes without lifting off
the gas pedal but not to avoid loosing engine rpms. It avoids the short
time lag in getting power back if you lift off the pedal.

Yeah, I know.

It is especially common on cars that use a turbo charger as it will keep the
exhaust manifold hot and the turbo spun up so they can have maximum boost
when they really need it. I am sure it gets carried over to normally
aspirated engines just because the drivers get into a habit and don't want
to break it.

I was just pushing basskisser to see if he could apply any amount of reason
to anything he says. He seems to get a little bit of knowledge and applies
it all wrong. The RPMs high while the car slows down was just so obvious an
error, yet he repeated the statement multiple times even after being
challenged.

Rod

On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:46:20 -0800, "Rod McInnis"
wrote:


"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...

They do use the brakes without lifting off
the gas pedal but not to avoid loosing engine rpms. It avoids the short
time lag in getting power back if you lift off the pedal.

Yeah, I know.

It is especially common on cars that use a turbo charger as it will keep the
exhaust manifold hot and the turbo spun up so they can have maximum boost
when they really need it. I am sure it gets carried over to normally
aspirated engines just because the drivers get into a habit and don't want
to break it.

It's a very long time for turbo cars, but is still there in normally
aspirated cars. Must have something to do with inertia. lol

I was just pushing basskisser to see if he could apply any amount of reason
to anything he says. He seems to get a little bit of knowledge and applies
it all wrong. The RPMs high while the car slows down was just so obvious an
error, yet he repeated the statement multiple times even after being
challenged.

There is no rhyme or reason for anything basskisser says. He's an idiot
and if he says something, you can be fairly certain that the opposite is
true.

Steve

"Joe" wrote in message ...
Bobby Labonte on restrictor plate racing:

"That type of racing to me isn't as exciting as going 200 miles per hour at
the end of the straightaway at Atlanta (which does not use restrictor
plates) because I can control what I'm doing," said defending series
champion Bobby Labonte.

"I have the opportunity to let off the gas and hit the brake and all that
stuff. At Daytona you don't do that. You just hold it wide open, and then
you're in a pack of cars all day. It's obvious that's not the same type of
racing we're doing everywhere else. It's not the same."
http://tinyurl.com/twmd

I guess you know more about racing than Bobby Labonte?

There's only a few times you ever use brakes during restrictor plate racing-

1) To avoid an accident
2) To slow down while entering the pits
3) To slow down in the turns due to a handling/mechanical problem with the
car.

You are stupid, and WRONG... you dumb idiot, if you EVER LISTENED to a
race broadcast, of say, Talledage, or Daytona, or other
superspeedways, the commentators, racers all, will ALWAYS talk about
using the brakes as opposed to lifting off the throttle. ALWAYS. Why?
With restrictor plates, if they lift, the RPM loss, and speed is much
greater than if they brake. If they keep the fuel/air mixture pushing
through the restrictor plate, the car comes back up to speed much
quicker than if they lifted off of the throttle. It's pretty simple,
but, I'm sure you still don't understand, JoeTechnician.

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 6 Nov 2003 04:51:54 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 5 Nov 2003 04:41:14 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 3 Nov 2003 05:02:04 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

Steven Shelikoff, the racing expert wrote:


Actually, the area of the wheel exposed to the gas in a race car tire is
pretty large compared to the area of the tire since they are wide and
low profile.

Not in all types of racing. Actually, in some types, the narrower the
better, less contact area, less friction. Take a salt flat racer, for
instance.

Yeah, and bicycle racing.

Though it doesn't apply much to boat trailer tires, the heat
conductivity of the gas would work against tire cooling in the case of
race cars and aircraft since it would serve to increase the rate of tire
heating in heavy brake application. Many aircraft tire failures are due

Of course it all depends on the type of racing. During most racing like
road racing, twisty corners, etc, heavy braking is applied but for very
short durations. Superspeedway racing, not at all.

Are you really trying to say that on superspeedways, they don't use
brakes at all? That's pretty stupid. They actually use brakes as
opposed to letting off the throttle, trying to keep the enginer RPM's
up. It takes forever to get those restictor plate engines back up to
speed. They do, however, use completely different brake setups,
smaller rotors, pads. These smaller, thinner rotors will get quite
hot, quite quickly.

Sorry to dissapoint you but at NASCAR restrictor plate races like at
Talladega and Daytona, the driver will almost without exception have
the gas pedal to the floor and not touch the brakes all day.

Pure horse****!!!!! They do, indeed, keep the throttle wide open, but
they DO use the brakes, and quite a lot. They use the brakes as
opposed to letting up on the throttle when drafting, to avoid loosing
engine rpms from what is commonly refered to as "lifting". So, to say
that they "not touch the brakes all day" is, again, false.

As usual, you need to do a little more research. But as usual, even
when you learn that you're wrong, you won't believe it and try to put
some sort of spin on it to avoid admitting you don't know what the hell
you're talking about.

You are an idiot!!! You don't know a damned thing about superspeedway
racing, if you think that they don't use brakes. What an idiot. Pure
and simple. Jeez, if you even ever bothered to listen to someone like
Benny Parsons, or Daryl Waltrip, and on and on, when at a
superspeedway they almost always mention using brakes as opposed to
lifting the throttle. It is a VERY common practice.

You may be listening, but as usual you don't understand what they're
saying. Yes, if they have to slow down they use the brakes. Of course.
It's just that for 99% of the race, they don't have to slow down.
Unlike other types of racing, superspeedway restrictor plate racing does
not require the drive to brake going into any corners. It's flat out
pedal to the metal racing around the entire track. The only time the
may need to touch the brakes is to avoid running into someone else and
to come into the pits.

They even
tape up the brake vents for more downforce since there's little need to
cool the brakes.

Actually, almost all teams don't even use brake ducting on
superspeedways, if that is what you mean by "brake vents".

They don't use brake ducting because they don't use he brakes. If they
used the brakes "quite a lot" as you claim, without any ducting, then
Rick would be right in that the brakes would melt the tires.

No, idiot they don't use ducting because the straights are long enough
for the brakes to cool.

Not if they used the brakes a lot without any ducting. You have no idea
about the aerodynamics of race cars.

Bull****. You idiot. The rotors are vented. You've never been close to
a stock car, by evidence of your crap. You'll hear people like Daryl
Waltrip, Benny Parsons, Wally Dahlenbach, etc. talk about using the
brakes as opposed to lifting off of the throttle at least once during
every restictor plate race that they commentate. It's very simple, but
I'm sure you wont' understand. You use the brakes as opposed to
lifting the throttle because if you keep the air/fuel mixture pushing
through the restrictor plate, the engine comes back up to speed much
quicker than if you lift the throttle. Plain and simple, and any idiot
that knows anything about racing knows this.

That's the exact opposite from short track and road course races where
they use the brakes so much that they need blowers to cool the them
since the vents don't provide enough cooling. They use a beefy braking
setup for those races since they have twice the power available so
there's much more to overcome braking losses, and they really need the
brakes.

The "beefy" brakes are because they have to slow the car from say,
130mph in the straight at Bristol, down to 60mph in turns 1 and 2, in
the shortest amount of time. It's all about being able to hold that
130mph until the last possible moment, slamming on the brakes until
the car takes a "set" (meaning it goes from pushing, or understeer, to
loose, or oversteer.), then being able to get back into the throttle.
Of course, I'm sure, you are an expert, as always!!!!
Oh, and your Nascar tire diatribe is wrong, and stupid.

You're too funny. Are you sure you're not Jax?

Hope you are getting it now, but I doubt it.



Your understanding of engines is just as abysmal as racing.

Steve

Haahaa!! You know more about stock car racing than I do?? Yet you
didn't know until this conversation that in restictor plate races,
they use the brakes as opposed to lifting the throttle??!!!
bwaaaahaaa!!

"Rod McInnis" wrote in message ...
"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...

They do use the brakes without lifting off
the gas pedal but not to avoid loosing engine rpms. It avoids the short
time lag in getting power back if you lift off the pedal.

Yeah, I know.

It is especially common on cars that use a turbo charger as it will keep the
exhaust manifold hot and the turbo spun up so they can have maximum boost
when they really need it. I am sure it gets carried over to normally
aspirated engines just because the drivers get into a habit and don't want
to break it.

I was just pushing basskisser to see if he could apply any amount of reason
to anything he says. He seems to get a little bit of knowledge and applies
it all wrong. The RPMs high while the car slows down was just so obvious an
error, yet he repeated the statement multiple times even after being
challenged.

Rod

Are you just trying to be funny, or are you really not very bright?

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message
lol... rpm's come back quicker. Loosing rpm's for a full lap... You
have no idea what you're talking about. Let me give you a hint: if a
driver brakes in the middle of racing during a restrictor plate race,
he's gonna loose a whole lot of positions. And they are tough to get
back.

Steve


You idiot, you have apparently never listened or watched a restrictor
plate race, and have no knowledge of the subject. Restrictor plate
cars DO take up to a lap to come back up to full speed. After a
caution lap, it takes a COUPLE of laps to get back up to speed. That
is what to **** the restrictor plate is FOR, you idiot. And again, a
driver would RATHER use the brakes, as opposed to lifting the
throttle. Listen and learn. If you watch a plate race, you'll hear
Daryl, or Benny etc. state at least once during the race, that they
use the brakes as opposed to lifting the throttle, and why.

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:11:13 -0800, "Rod McInnis"
wrote:


"basskisser" wrote in message
. com...

Pure horse****!!!!! They do, indeed, keep the throttle wide open, but
they DO use the brakes, and quite a lot. They use the brakes as
opposed to letting up on the throttle when drafting, to avoid loosing
engine rpms from what is commonly refered to as "lifting".


I ask you again: What type of connection do they use between the engine and
the wheels that allows the engine RPMs to stay high while the car slows
down?

He's full of crap as usual. They do use the brakes without lifting off
the gas pedal but not to avoid loosing engine rpms. It avoids the short
time lag in getting power back if you lift off the pedal. It also
avoids abrupt changes in handling and suspension geometry that you get
when you lift off the gas pedal, which shifts the front/rear weight
distribution around.

Steve

You're stupidity is showing again. Using the brakes does anything BUT
"avoid abrupt changes in handling....." In racing circles, it's
commonly refered to as "taking a set", when you are ram rodding into a
corner, the car tends to push, braking allows the car to "take a set",
which actually makes the car a little loose, but loose is fast, to a
point. Now, are you really saying that lifting the throttle shifts the
front to rear weight, but braking does not???!!!!!! By the way, the
driver can adjust brake bias from his seat, just a turn of the knob.

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message
...
Bobby Labonte on restrictor plate racing:

"That type of racing to me isn't as exciting as going 200 miles per
hour at
the end of the straightaway at Atlanta (which does not use restrictor
plates) because I can control what I'm doing," said defending series
champion Bobby Labonte.

"I have the opportunity to let off the gas and hit the brake and all
that
stuff. At Daytona you don't do that. You just hold it wide open, and
then
you're in a pack of cars all day. It's obvious that's not the same type
of
racing we're doing everywhere else. It's not the same."
http://tinyurl.com/twmd

I guess you know more about racing than Bobby Labonte?

There's only a few times you ever use brakes during restrictor plate
racing-

1) To avoid an accident
2) To slow down while entering the pits
3) To slow down in the turns due to a handling/mechanical problem with
the
car.

You are stupid, and WRONG... you dumb idiot, if you EVER LISTENED to a
race broadcast, of say, Talledage, or Daytona, or other
superspeedways, the commentators, racers all, will ALWAYS talk about
using the brakes as opposed to lifting off the throttle ALWAYS. Why?
With restrictor plates, if they lift, the RPM loss, and speed is much
greater than if they brake. If they keep the fuel/air mixture pushing
through the restrictor plate, the car comes back up to speed much
quicker than if they lifted off of the throttle. It's pretty simple,
but, I'm sure you still don't understand, JoeTechnician.

Just what I figured, you know more about racing than Bobby Labonte.

I'll add it to your list