On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:49:13 -0600, Califbill wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:33:33 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

keep them moving forward. I can point to several cases where parents
are still subsidizing their kids lackadasical lifestyle well into
their 30s.
----

And beyond..

===

No motivation there. What are the chances that the kid will ever get
their act together in a case like that?


I have a friend who used to be really wealthy. Very big landscape
contractor. He bought cars for his kids, etc. most of his kids are social
disasters. Grandkids a mixed bunch. One, 28 yo girl, got a DUI while
coming from work at a pizza parlor, and cashed a check from grandpa she
should not have. Was for rent only, which she did not need. My kids both
turned out well, did not overspend the credit cards in university. They had
to buy their first cars, so they know what it takes. I did buy them new
cars when they went in to their senior years at university. But both still
do not waste money.

Well, my dad couldn't help me with college, but he did help me, in 1962, buy my first car - a 1952
Studebaker. The thing used a quart of oil about every fillup, but the oil was only 10 cents a quart.
It wasn't the best of oils, I don't think. It was a pretty good car, 'til the back of the front
drivers seat busted off when I was reaching for a billfold. Actually, it was still pretty good. Used
a 2x4 to prop up the seat. Didn't do a lot of necking in the front seat of that car.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 13:19:49 -0500,
wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2016 23:39:02 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2016 19:30:09 -0800 (PST), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 10:17:42 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 29 Nov 2016 21:09:58 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Depends. I have Cambodian friends. She owns a donut shop, husband is now
a laid off machinist who works the shop. One daughter did not finish high
school, and nearly 30 Y.O. and no GED. Other is going to JC. Older kid,
did not seem to inherit the worker gene.

That seems to cross all ethnic and nationalities. We have plenty of
American snowflakes who lost the worker gene. My latino friends are
saying that about kids in their culture too.

Maybe it's the modern American culture that poison's them?

I believe that. We have several generations of kids who have never had
to work for anything and really have had nothing bad happen to them.
When things don't work out for them they are victims and society has
failed them. The safety net has become a hammock.

===

I don't think that's universally true. It would be easy (but self
serving) to point out my own kids as an example. Instead I'd point
out their friends, who for the most part studied hard and worked hard
to get into good schools, have gotten graduate degrees, and have
hustled to establish themselves in good careers. For kids who have
done otherwise, a certain amount of blame falls to the parents who
frequently did not do enough to point them in the right direction and
keep them moving forward. I can point to several cases where parents
are still subsidizing their kids lackadasical lifestyle well into
their 30s.

Even some of those who did do everything right like my son in law is
still buried so deep in college debt that his Masters degree and his
law degree are barely enough to pay his bills but that is a whole
other story.
I know lots of 20 somethings still living home with Mom and expecting
the world to come get them and make them rich some day. The other
problem, that drives my wife crazy is the 20-30 somethings who think
it is a god given right to manage their social network pages, shop and
surf the web at work. Sometimes the office internet connection is
crawling in the mud because there are a dozen people looking at cat
videos on You Tube. Needless to say viruses are a constant problem and
they have paid ransomware already to get the server back.
I would have fired someone over that but she says the lawyers said no,
not enough proof. (Even though the IT company tracked it back to one
computer and one non work related click).
If that happened at IBM when I was there, somebody would have been
carrying a box to the car with all of their personal **** in it, never
to return.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:10:09 -0500,
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:33:33 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

keep them moving forward. I can point to several cases where parents
are still subsidizing their kids lackadasical lifestyle well into
their 30s.
----

And beyond..

===

No motivation there. What are the chances that the kid will ever get
their act together in a case like that?

When I was 20 and just started working at IBM, my parents went the
other way. They moved to Florida and left me with the lease on their
apartment in Md.
At least I didn't have to move out, I just needed some roomies to help
with the rent and I needed some furniture. ;-)

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 12:52:13 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

2:10
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 10:33:33 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:
- show quoted text -
===

No motivation there. What are the chances that the kid will ever get
their act together in a case like that?
...

I doubt if much Wayne. I know some professional students who have never had a working job in their life.

One is 48 and working on his 3rd doctorate. Also a fellow in a prestigious northeastern university. As long as there's grant money coming in...

Part of that is the stupid way college loans work. As long as you are
still in school, you don't have to start paying on your loans. After a
while you can't afford to leave school. That is great for the schools,
terrible for the student. It makes school a fiscal addiction that has
withdrawal problems worse than smack.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:49:13 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I have a friend who used to be really wealthy. Very big landscape
contractor. He bought cars for his kids, etc. most of his kids are social
disasters. Grandkids a mixed bunch. One, 28 yo girl, got a DUI while
coming from work at a pizza parlor, and cashed a check from grandpa she
should not have. Was for rent only, which she did not need. My kids both
turned out well, did not overspend the credit cards in university. They had
to buy their first cars, so they know what it takes. I did buy them new
cars when they went in to their senior years at university. But both still
do not waste money.

Nobody ever bought me a car but I have bought a bunch for my wife and
kids. Yet I am the one still driving the 20 year old Honda. What's
wrong with this picture? ;-)

wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:49:13 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I have a friend who used to be really wealthy. Very big landscape
contractor. He bought cars for his kids, etc. most of his kids are social
disasters. Grandkids a mixed bunch. One, 28 yo girl, got a DUI while
coming from work at a pizza parlor, and cashed a check from grandpa she
should not have. Was for rent only, which she did not need. My kids both
turned out well, did not overspend the credit cards in university. They had
to buy their first cars, so they know what it takes. I did buy them new
cars when they went in to their senior years at university. But both still
do not waste money.

Nobody ever bought me a car but I have bought a bunch for my wife and
kids. Yet I am the one still driving the 20 year old Honda. What's
wrong with this picture? ;-)


I drive a lot. So drive a 12 year old pickup, that replaced a 99 Ford
Expedition, that I had for company car at TI.. And an 1989 S10 pickup.
Wife got a new Toyota in 2009 to replace a 1995 S10 Blazer. Blazer, end of
safe life. And the Expedition did not fit my requirement for a camper and
boat puller. Basically drive until wore out. Am looking at a Chevy Volt
for,around town. Easy parking, and carpool lane friendly.

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:52:33 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:49:13 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I have a friend who used to be really wealthy. Very big landscape
contractor. He bought cars for his kids, etc. most of his kids are social
disasters. Grandkids a mixed bunch. One, 28 yo girl, got a DUI while
coming from work at a pizza parlor, and cashed a check from grandpa she
should not have. Was for rent only, which she did not need. My kids both
turned out well, did not overspend the credit cards in university. They had
to buy their first cars, so they know what it takes. I did buy them new
cars when they went in to their senior years at university. But both still
do not waste money.

Nobody ever bought me a car but I have bought a bunch for my wife and
kids. Yet I am the one still driving the 20 year old Honda. What's
wrong with this picture? ;-)


I drive a lot. So drive a 12 year old pickup, that replaced a 99 Ford
Expedition, that I had for company car at TI.. And an 1989 S10 pickup.
Wife got a new Toyota in 2009 to replace a 1995 S10 Blazer. Blazer, end of
safe life. And the Expedition did not fit my requirement for a camper and
boat puller. Basically drive until wore out. Am looking at a Chevy Volt
for,around town. Easy parking, and carpool lane friendly.

I don't drive that much these days It is about 1500 miles a year or
something. I really can't justify buying a new car and I don't measure
my self worth by what I drive.
My Prelude is rare enough to be unique, it still handles pretty well
and is fast enough for me so I am OK with it

On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:52:33 -0600, Califbill wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:49:13 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I have a friend who used to be really wealthy. Very big landscape
contractor. He bought cars for his kids, etc. most of his kids are social
disasters. Grandkids a mixed bunch. One, 28 yo girl, got a DUI while
coming from work at a pizza parlor, and cashed a check from grandpa she
should not have. Was for rent only, which she did not need. My kids both
turned out well, did not overspend the credit cards in university. They had
to buy their first cars, so they know what it takes. I did buy them new
cars when they went in to their senior years at university. But both still
do not waste money.

Nobody ever bought me a car but I have bought a bunch for my wife and
kids. Yet I am the one still driving the 20 year old Honda. What's
wrong with this picture? ;-)


I drive a lot. So drive a 12 year old pickup, that replaced a 99 Ford
Expedition, that I had for company car at TI.. And an 1989 S10 pickup.
Wife got a new Toyota in 2009 to replace a 1995 S10 Blazer. Blazer, end of
safe life. And the Expedition did not fit my requirement for a camper and
boat puller. Basically drive until wore out. Am looking at a Chevy Volt
for,around town. Easy parking, and carpool lane friendly.

My wife has a 2013 diesel Volks which she will be selling back to the dealer because of VW's diesel
cheating. She'll get a check for about 25.6K which she's using to buy a new Suburu Outback. Nice
car. Much more comfortable than the VW and the mileage is pretty good. With the difference in price
'tween gas and diesel, she breaks close to even.

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 11:18:33 AM UTC-5, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:52:33 -0600, Califbill wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:49:13 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I have a friend who used to be really wealthy. Very big landscape
contractor. He bought cars for his kids, etc. most of his kids are social
disasters. Grandkids a mixed bunch. One, 28 yo girl, got a DUI while
coming from work at a pizza parlor, and cashed a check from grandpa she
should not have. Was for rent only, which she did not need. My kids both
turned out well, did not overspend the credit cards in university. They had
to buy their first cars, so they know what it takes. I did buy them new
cars when they went in to their senior years at university. But both still
do not waste money.

Nobody ever bought me a car but I have bought a bunch for my wife and
kids. Yet I am the one still driving the 20 year old Honda. What's
wrong with this picture? ;-)


I drive a lot. So drive a 12 year old pickup, that replaced a 99 Ford
Expedition, that I had for company car at TI.. And an 1989 S10 pickup.
Wife got a new Toyota in 2009 to replace a 1995 S10 Blazer. Blazer, end of
safe life. And the Expedition did not fit my requirement for a camper and
boat puller. Basically drive until wore out. Am looking at a Chevy Volt
for,around town. Easy parking, and carpool lane friendly.

My wife has a 2013 diesel Volks which she will be selling back to the dealer because of VW's diesel
cheating. She'll get a check for about 25.6K which she's using to buy a new Suburu Outback. Nice
car. Much more comfortable than the VW and the mileage is pretty good. With the difference in price
'tween gas and diesel, she breaks close to even.

Are they doing buy-backs? I had heard that they were coming up with a fix they could apply to bring them into compliance.

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016 10:05:56 -0800 (PST), Its Me wrote:

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 11:18:33 AM UTC-5, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 23:52:33 -0600, Califbill wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2016 15:49:13 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

I have a friend who used to be really wealthy. Very big landscape
contractor. He bought cars for his kids, etc. most of his kids are social
disasters. Grandkids a mixed bunch. One, 28 yo girl, got a DUI while
coming from work at a pizza parlor, and cashed a check from grandpa she
should not have. Was for rent only, which she did not need. My kids both
turned out well, did not overspend the credit cards in university. They had
to buy their first cars, so they know what it takes. I did buy them new
cars when they went in to their senior years at university. But both still
do not waste money.

Nobody ever bought me a car but I have bought a bunch for my wife and
kids. Yet I am the one still driving the 20 year old Honda. What's
wrong with this picture? ;-)


I drive a lot. So drive a 12 year old pickup, that replaced a 99 Ford
Expedition, that I had for company car at TI.. And an 1989 S10 pickup.
Wife got a new Toyota in 2009 to replace a 1995 S10 Blazer. Blazer, end of
safe life. And the Expedition did not fit my requirement for a camper and
boat puller. Basically drive until wore out. Am looking at a Chevy Volt
for,around town. Easy parking, and carpool lane friendly.

My wife has a 2013 diesel Volks which she will be selling back to the dealer because of VW's diesel
cheating. She'll get a check for about 25.6K which she's using to buy a new Suburu Outback. Nice
car. Much more comfortable than the VW and the mileage is pretty good. With the difference in price
'tween gas and diesel, she breaks close to even.

Are they doing buy-backs? I had heard that they were coming up with a fix they could apply to bring them into compliance.

The owners had a choice - buyback or a fix. No one really new how the 'fix' would affect the new
mileage, performance, or future value.