Keyser Soze wrote:
On 1/24/17 1:12 PM, Tim wrote:
Jan
On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 11:17:42 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

What'd be impressive is when you hit targets while holding the gun
sideways i.e. "Gangstah".

The funny thing is I am seeing some defense coaches talking about that
sideways hold now, usually using a laser. It is generally when
shooting from cover like around a corner so you can establish a sight
picture or guide on the laser without exposing any more of your body
and head than necessary. It is also supposed to be more stable on an
"out to the side" hold.
....

I'm sure you're right in theory Greg, but I doubt that applies much to thug life


"Defense coaches..." I like firearms and have no objections to
reasonable people owning firearms, but I do get a laugh out of all the
youtube vids and magazine articles about which weapons are "the best"
for going to war or "protecting" oneself in a fire fight. If you are
going to war and you are not a soldier of fortune, one assumes "the
military" assigns you a firearm and teaches you how to use it. I'd bet
that 99.99% of non-sworn civilians in this country who "carry" never
have and never will face an armed assailant or gunfire or a grizzly bear
or mountain lion.

One of our local liquor and gourmet food stores has a uniformed and
armed county cop on duty on Saturdays and Sundays, but not during the
workweek. Our county mounties are friendly guys and I often talk to them
while waiting in the checkout line and as I am leaving the store. This
store has *never* had a robbery, but neither have most of the other
stores in the area where there is no armed guard standing around. The
cops tell me the weekend guard duty is a "great gig," because they don't
really have to do anything to earn their off-duty pay and the store
gives them a "great gourmet lunch." More power to them.


Do not know the latest stats, but 20 years ago, only 5% of police ever
pulled their weapon in the line of duty in their whole career.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 14:09:14 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/24/2017 1:55 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 1/24/17 1:45 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/24/2017 12:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 07:34:42 -0500, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

I've seen people at the range with lasers. Actually, I've seen the
spot of light dancing around the
target. It's not like on the TV where the little spot appears and
holds nice and steady. I think it
must be embarassing for the owner to know his spot of light is
dancing all over the target, 'cause
the laser gets used for only a few seconds and then never brightens
our day again.

It is a good training tool and you don't even need to load the gun or
go to the range. ;-)
I am not sure how good they are in a serious social situation tho. I
have a laser for my KP90 but I took it off and put it away. It was
just a distraction.


Yeah, a couple of my handguns have lasers on them. Initially I tried
the lasers but never use them now. Batteries are probably dead.


I have a pretty expensive laser device for lining up scopes and
barrels*, but I don't know why I'd want a laser pointer permanently or
semi-permanently mounted on a handgun. If you don't practice enough and
can't hit a human-sized target with a handgun in or near the center of
body mass between a couple of feet away and say 50 feet, you probably
shouldn't be depending on a handgun.

* I have the device because I often swap around my various scopes and
red dots on my various rifles. I have a red dot on my .22LR target
pistol, and I just leave it on there. No scope or red dot on my revolver.


I've lost a lot of interest in shooting. The original reason I got a
concealed carry permit was at the advice of a lawyer friend when I first
opened the guitar shop and carried a lot of cash on me everyday.
I got the permit, joined a gun club and started practicing two or three
days a week but after a while it got really boring shooting holes in
paper targets. I rarely carry anymore and keep the handguns and rifles
in a safe or under lock ... except one. Depending on where we are going
I sometimes take it with me but most of the time it's in the house.


Unless I have a specific objective, like sighting in the Mosin Nagant, I agree with you about
shooting by yourself.

However, going with someone else and sharing a lane can be a lot of fun. Last week I took a Navy
Bluegrass player and his wife. We had a blast.

On 1/24/17 2:27 PM, Bill wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
On 1/24/17 1:12 PM, Tim wrote:
Jan
On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 11:17:42 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

What'd be impressive is when you hit targets while holding the gun
sideways i.e. "Gangstah".

The funny thing is I am seeing some defense coaches talking about that
sideways hold now, usually using a laser. It is generally when
shooting from cover like around a corner so you can establish a sight
picture or guide on the laser without exposing any more of your body
and head than necessary. It is also supposed to be more stable on an
"out to the side" hold.
....

I'm sure you're right in theory Greg, but I doubt that applies much to thug life


"Defense coaches..." I like firearms and have no objections to
reasonable people owning firearms, but I do get a laugh out of all the
youtube vids and magazine articles about which weapons are "the best"
for going to war or "protecting" oneself in a fire fight. If you are
going to war and you are not a soldier of fortune, one assumes "the
military" assigns you a firearm and teaches you how to use it. I'd bet
that 99.99% of non-sworn civilians in this country who "carry" never
have and never will face an armed assailant or gunfire or a grizzly bear
or mountain lion.

One of our local liquor and gourmet food stores has a uniformed and
armed county cop on duty on Saturdays and Sundays, but not during the
workweek. Our county mounties are friendly guys and I often talk to them
while waiting in the checkout line and as I am leaving the store. This
store has *never* had a robbery, but neither have most of the other
stores in the area where there is no armed guard standing around. The
cops tell me the weekend guard duty is a "great gig," because they don't
really have to do anything to earn their off-duty pay and the store
gives them a "great gourmet lunch." More power to them.


Do not know the latest stats, but 20 years ago, only 5% of police ever
pulled their weapon in the line of duty in their whole career.


I see some cops at the local ranges who are horrible shots, and some of
them joke about it. One would think a certain level of proficiency with
firearms would have to be achieved and maintained, but maybe no. Last
year when I was messing around at the range with my revolver and
shooting pretty decently, one of them asked me how I got "so good."
Well, I'm only "decent" with it, certainly not "so good." I told him the
same way a musician gets to Carnegie Hall...practice, practice,
practice. He got it.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 14:40:08 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

I was messing around at the range with my revolver and
shooting pretty decently, one of them asked me how I got "so good."
Well, I'm only "decent" with it, certainly not "so good." I told him the
same way a musician gets to Carnegie Hall...practice, practice,
practice. He got it.

===

You're only allowed to use that joke if you're from New York.

A fair number of the guys in my club are former LEOs. Most of them
are proficient but no more than that. One of my former neighbors was
a retired LEO from Seattle. I once asked him if was interested in
going for target practice. His answer surprised me. He said that he
had shot and been shot at, and that he had no interest in ever
shooting again.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 10:12:20 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

Jan
On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 11:17:42 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

What'd be impressive is when you hit targets while holding the gun sideways i.e. "Gangstah".

The funny thing is I am seeing some defense coaches talking about that
sideways hold now, usually using a laser. It is generally when
shooting from cover like around a corner so you can establish a sight
picture or guide on the laser without exposing any more of your body
and head than necessary. It is also supposed to be more stable on an
"out to the side" hold.
....

I'm sure you're right in theory Greg, but I doubt that applies much to thug life

It is not really my theory, just what I have seen.
As for the thugs, none of this applies. They don't aim, they just do a
magazine dump and hope they hit someone from the other gang.

On 1/24/17 3:05 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 10:12:20 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

Jan
On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 11:17:42 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

What'd be impressive is when you hit targets while holding the gun sideways i.e. "Gangstah".

The funny thing is I am seeing some defense coaches talking about that
sideways hold now, usually using a laser. It is generally when
shooting from cover like around a corner so you can establish a sight
picture or guide on the laser without exposing any more of your body
and head than necessary. It is also supposed to be more stable on an
"out to the side" hold.
....

I'm sure you're right in theory Greg, but I doubt that applies much to thug life

It is not really my theory, just what I have seen.
As for the thugs, none of this applies. They don't aim, they just do a
magazine dump and hope they hit someone from the other gang.


If I were carrying again, something I do not expect to do, I'd carry a
S&W 686 with a 2-1/2" barrel in .357 magnum. Heavy hitter, seven rounds,
no semi-auto concerns, great trigger right out of the box, SA or DA. If
you have to shoot someone, you want to drop them in their tracks, and a
..357 will do it.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:32:54 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 1/24/17 1:12 PM, Tim wrote:
Jan
On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 11:17:42 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

What'd be impressive is when you hit targets while holding the gun sideways i.e. "Gangstah".

The funny thing is I am seeing some defense coaches talking about that
sideways hold now, usually using a laser. It is generally when
shooting from cover like around a corner so you can establish a sight
picture or guide on the laser without exposing any more of your body
and head than necessary. It is also supposed to be more stable on an
"out to the side" hold.
....

I'm sure you're right in theory Greg, but I doubt that applies much to thug life


"Defense coaches..." I like firearms and have no objections to
reasonable people owning firearms, but I do get a laugh out of all the
youtube vids and magazine articles about which weapons are "the best"
for going to war or "protecting" oneself in a fire fight. If you are
going to war and you are not a soldier of fortune, one assumes "the
military" assigns you a firearm and teaches you how to use it. I'd bet
that 99.99% of non-sworn civilians in this country who "carry" never
have and never will face an armed assailant or gunfire or a grizzly bear
or mountain lion.



Are you seriously saying a gun owner should not have any kind of
training?
As for the likelihood of needing a gun in a defense situation, I
assume you have/had a fire extinguisher on your boat. Did you ever
have to use it? Were you actually trained in how to use it?

In my 70 years, I have never discharged a fire extinguisher except in
training and I have plenty.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:36:41 -0500, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 12:43:54 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 07:34:42 -0500, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

I've seen people at the range with lasers. Actually, I've seen the spot of light dancing around the
target. It's not like on the TV where the little spot appears and holds nice and steady. I think it
must be embarassing for the owner to know his spot of light is dancing all over the target, 'cause
the laser gets used for only a few seconds and then never brightens our day again.

It is a good training tool and you don't even need to load the gun or
go to the range. ;-)
I am not sure how good they are in a serious social situation tho. I
have a laser for my KP90 but I took it off and put it away. It was
just a distraction.

Oh I agree that they're a good training aid. Dry firing at home with a laser is very helpful.

If I buy another laser I am looking at the new laserlyte that has a
training mode. In training mode it fires a short pop of laser light
when it hears the hammer/striker fall. When used with their training
targets it looks interesting. It is also the regular gun laser in the
normal mode.

On 1/24/17 3:13 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:32:54 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 1/24/17 1:12 PM, Tim wrote:
Jan
On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 11:17:42 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

What'd be impressive is when you hit targets while holding the gun sideways i.e. "Gangstah".

The funny thing is I am seeing some defense coaches talking about that
sideways hold now, usually using a laser. It is generally when
shooting from cover like around a corner so you can establish a sight
picture or guide on the laser without exposing any more of your body
and head than necessary. It is also supposed to be more stable on an
"out to the side" hold.
....

I'm sure you're right in theory Greg, but I doubt that applies much to thug life


"Defense coaches..." I like firearms and have no objections to
reasonable people owning firearms, but I do get a laugh out of all the
youtube vids and magazine articles about which weapons are "the best"
for going to war or "protecting" oneself in a fire fight. If you are
going to war and you are not a soldier of fortune, one assumes "the
military" assigns you a firearm and teaches you how to use it. I'd bet
that 99.99% of non-sworn civilians in this country who "carry" never
have and never will face an armed assailant or gunfire or a grizzly bear
or mountain lion.



Are you seriously saying a gun owner should not have any kind of
training?
As for the likelihood of needing a gun in a defense situation, I
assume you have/had a fire extinguisher on your boat. Did you ever
have to use it? Were you actually trained in how to use it?

In my 70 years, I have never discharged a fire extinguisher except in
training and I have plenty.


No, I did not say gun owners "should not have any kind of training." In
fact, I think you should have to take a serious training course BEFORE
you are able to buy a firearm, at least for the first one.

Your boat fire extinguisher analogy really doesn't work.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:55:44 -0500, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 1/24/17 1:45 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 1/24/2017 12:43 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2017 07:34:42 -0500, Poco Deplorevole
wrote:

I've seen people at the range with lasers. Actually, I've seen the
spot of light dancing around the
target. It's not like on the TV where the little spot appears and
holds nice and steady. I think it
must be embarassing for the owner to know his spot of light is
dancing all over the target, 'cause
the laser gets used for only a few seconds and then never brightens
our day again.

It is a good training tool and you don't even need to load the gun or
go to the range. ;-)
I am not sure how good they are in a serious social situation tho. I
have a laser for my KP90 but I took it off and put it away. It was
just a distraction.


Yeah, a couple of my handguns have lasers on them. Initially I tried
the lasers but never use them now. Batteries are probably dead.


I have a pretty expensive laser device for lining up scopes and
barrels*, but I don't know why I'd want a laser pointer permanently or
semi-permanently mounted on a handgun. If you don't practice enough and
can't hit a human-sized target with a handgun in or near the center of
body mass between a couple of feet away and say 50 feet, you probably
shouldn't be depending on a handgun.

I tend to agree. The only case I have seen that makes sense is if you
were firing from cover and could not get a decent sight picture but as
you say, that is such a remote thing it is not worth buying batteries
for.
The training mode on the laserlyte does look interesting tho.
I have a CO2 version of my P90 that seems to be a decent practice gun
and I have a safe place out back to use it.
I am still working my way through a big box of cylinders I bought a
while ago for around 30 cents each. I am not sure how many shots you
get but I am usually tired of shooting before it gives out.