Can you ask for water to gybe? (like you can ask for water to tack).

Imagine sailing on port gybe, with another boat on your left hand
side. You are following the shore on your right hand side, keeping out
of the tide. Ahead of you the shore bends around to the left - i.e.
you will need to gybe to prevent yourself running aground.

Can you ask the boat alongside you for water so you can gybe?

THANKS,

Chris

Read Rule 18 carefully. Rule 19 does NOT apply.

Geoff



On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:49:02 UTC, (ChrisJ) wrote:

Can you ask for water to gybe? (like you can ask for water to tack).

Imagine sailing on port gybe, with another boat on your left hand
side. You are following the shore on your right hand side, keeping out
of the tide. Ahead of you the shore bends around to the left - i.e.
you will need to gybe to prevent yourself running aground.

Can you ask the boat alongside you for water so you can gybe?

THANKS,

Chris

ChrisJ wrote:

Can you ask for water to gybe? (like you can ask for water to tack).

Imagine sailing on port gybe, with another boat on your left hand
side. You are following the shore on your right hand side, keeping out
of the tide. Ahead of you the shore bends around to the left - i.e.
you will need to gybe to prevent yourself running aground.

Can you ask the boat alongside you for water so you can gybe?

What do you mean by "port gybe" ? The only way this question makes any
sense is if you are on a starboard tack going to leeward. If you're on
a port tack in this situation, you would head up, not gybe. The term
"port gybe" is meaningless to me. Can you clarify?



--
//-Walt
//
//

"R. G. Newbury" wrote in message news:JcldVHe8EppF-pn2-xNjPHsgsYqbD@Tor2...
Read Rule 18 carefully. Rule 19 does NOT apply.


OK. So you can ask for water to avoid hitting the obstruction - but
presumably only enough to avoid hitting, and not enough to sail
further away from the obstruction.

Now a slightly different situation. Also approaching the bank on port
gybe - but in an asymmetric boat. You can ask for water at the
obstruction; BUT do you need to bear away onto a dead run to be
parallel to the obstruction before you can do so??

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:28:33 UTC, (ChrisJ) wrote:

"R. G. Newbury" wrote in message news:JcldVHe8EppF-pn2-xNjPHsgsYqbD@Tor2...
Read Rule 18 carefully. Rule 19 does NOT apply.


OK. So you can ask for water to avoid hitting the obstruction - but
presumably only enough to avoid hitting, and not enough to sail
further away from the obstruction.

Now a slightly different situation. Also approaching the bank on port
gybe - but in an asymmetric boat. You can ask for water at the
obstruction; BUT do you need to bear away onto a dead run to be
parallel to the obstruction before you can do so??

I would say so. Remember that this rule is intended to (temporarily)
shift the burdens of avoidance, from the usual give-way boat, to the
stand-on boat, in the interests of safety. Which means that tactical
advantage is not generally a proper consequence.

So if the boat can bear away to a dead down course, and thereby avoid
coming closer to the obstruction, that would be the limit of the
avoiding action the other boat need give. In this situation, the
inside boat (by the definition of the problem) does not have to gybe.
It would like to gybe so as to sail a faster course, but in order to
do so, must require the other boat to alter its course *more than
required simply to achieve a safe situation.

Assume 2 boats are approaching a long dock wall on port. There is deep
water right to the wall. Some distance downwind, a pier sticks outs.
Windward is slightly ahead of leeward but cannot gybe. I would say
that leeward must bear off to allow windward to bear down to a
parallel course to the wall, but leeward need not gybe, until windward
reaches 2 boat lengths from the projecting pier, at which time in
order to pass the obstruction, windward (now inside with rights (cf
being inside without rights as she was)) must gybe to attain her
proper course. Outside must gybe in order to give inside room to pass.
(But leeward/outside will likely end up very nearly dead ahead of
windward/inside.
Geoff

Walt wrote

What do you mean by "port gybe" ? The only way this question makes any
sense is if you are on a starboard tack going to leeward. If you're on
a port tack in this situation, you would head up, not gybe. The term
"port gybe" is meaningless to me. Can you clarify?

Well done Walt! I thought about the port / starboard gybe for long
enough before entering the first note. And then I was replying to your
note explaining what I meant - and it wasn't until that point that I
realised I had it wrong!


What I meant was: approaching the shore on your starboard side, while
on the gybe that takes you towards the shore (i.e. Starboard gybe).
You want to gybe to sail away from the shore, but as you will be
gybing ONTO port, you can not do that without calling for water / room
to avoid the obstruction etc.

Sorry!

"ChrisJ" wrote in message
om
Walt wrote

What do you mean by "port gybe" ? The only way this question makes
any sense is if you are on a starboard tack going to leeward. If
you're on a port tack in this situation, you would head up, not
gybe. The term "port gybe" is meaningless to me. Can you clarify?

Well done Walt! I thought about the port / starboard gybe for long
enough before entering the first note. And then I was replying to your
note explaining what I meant - and it wasn't until that point that I
realised I had it wrong!


What I meant was: approaching the shore on your starboard side, while
on the gybe that takes you towards the shore (i.e. Starboard gybe).
You want to gybe to sail away from the shore, but as you will be
gybing ONTO port, you can not do that without calling for water / room
to avoid the obstruction etc.

No. When you hail for Water to tack at an obstruction you are asking
for room to tack because under RRS 13, when tacking, after the boat
passes head to wind she shall keep clear until she is on a close hauled
course.

There is no such obligation when gybing, nor do you require as much
sea-room to gybe as you do to tack.

In your case, if the Outside boat (O) is initially also on Starboard,
she will be right of way boat (RRS 11), but Inside boat (I) will be
entitled to room to pass the obstruction (RRS 18.2), provided that if I
established the overlap from clear astern there was room to pass at that
time (RRS 18.5).

Room includes room to gybe as necessary (RRS 18.0) so you don't have to
ask for it, but a discretionary hail wouldn't go amiss. (prolly all that
is really needed to answer your quesiton, but I'll press on anyway g).

I is now on Port, and O on Starboard, so O is still right of way (RRS
10), but I is still entitled to room to pass the obstruction (RRS 18
still applies because nobody has to tack to pass the obstruction (RRS
18.1(b)). I is now entitled room to luff to the degree necessary to
pass the obstruction.

If O now gybes onto Port, I becomes leeward boat, and thus becomes the
right of way boat (RRS 11) as well as being entitled to room.

Had O originally been on Port, with I initially on Starboard, I will be
both right of way boat (RRS 10), and entitled to room to pass the
obstruction (RRS 18.2) including room to gybe (RRS 18.0).

When I gybes, she will continue to be right of way boat (RRS 11) (and at
no time lost the right of way, because RRS 13 does not apply to gybing)
, and continue to be entitled to room.

Bottom line is you are entitled to room to pass (subject to RRS 18.5),
including room to gybe as necessary. You may hail for room, but, unlike
when tacking, your entitlement to room does not depend on hailing.

John

"J. Allan" wrote in message ...

THANKS

Excellent description...... now all I need to do is to read it out to
the Outside / Starboard tack yacht at the time of the next incident
:-)

"ChrisJ" wrote in message
m
"J. Allan" wrote in message
...

THANKS

Excellent description...... now all I need to do is to read it out to
the Outside / Starboard tack yacht at the time of the next incident
:-)

If you're up against a skipper who doesn't understand rule 18 continuing
obstructions

Hail early and often

"I need room at the continuing obstruction"

"You must give me room for the continuing obstruction"

"Don't luff you must give me room for the continuing obstruction"

"I'm gybing you must give me room for the continuing obstruction"

"You must give me room to pass the point"

Keep it simple and don't try to explain difficult rules to a mug on the
water.

If you're getting closed out:

"Protest" (and fly the bloody flag)

then slow down, back out of the sandwich, and off you go, blanketing
your opponent as you go.

John