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#12
posted to rec.boats
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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On 10/26/2017 2:12 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/26/17 2:07 PM, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Why should the buyer of a new inexpensive car be tolerant of a poorly assembled vehicle? Surprised the list of the least reliable cars doesn't include Jeep vehicles. Me too. Based on what I've read the current crop of Jeeps have a terrible reputation for reliability problems and being outdated in design in general. My daughter can't wait until her lease is up on a Jeep Liberty she has. I've driven it. It's terrible. Transmission shudders at slow speeds but she was told it's "normal". My brother also bought a Jeep Compass a couple of months ago, replacing a 12 year old, rotted out Dodge Ram pickup. His shutters also at slow speeds, so perhaps it *is* normal. He's already shopping for a replacement for it Not much of a sampling but consistent with many of the on-line reviews. |
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#13
posted to rec.boats
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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On 10/26/2017 2:19 PM, John H wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:08:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/26/2017 1:01 PM, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:18:20 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/26/2017 11:57 AM, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. Maybe. But I think when people are asked to participate in a survey those who have had reliability problems are more likely to respond. Whenever I read or hear such results I remind myself of the millions of people driving around with no problems but no compulsion to complete a survey form, positive or negative. I probably get a request for a survey once a week from someone. Banks, stores, Amazon, Nissan (ha) and others. I delete them as fast as they arrive. === I think the readers of Consumer Reports might be a little different in that respect. I've always been happy to rate our vehicles both good and bad. For the good ones it's a matter of giving credit where credit is due, and for the bad ones it can help to warn someone else, and possibly motivate the manufacturer to get their act together. There's no denying that the overall quality of Japanese cars forced Detroit to step up their game a notch or two, and Consumer Reports is one of the ways that the word got out. So, what happens when you respond to a survey, giving the manufacturer high grades of satisfaction and then, the next day, you discover it doesn't have any heat and you spend the next 2 months plus waiting for them to fix it without success? :-) Do you really think that Nissan was representative of the rest of them? What you do is...wait for the next survey. It will ask right off the bat if you still own the Nissan. I get a Nissan survey request weekly. I started to fill out the first one but stopped halfway through and didn't submit it. After I received a few more I "unsubscribed" from their mailing list. Didn't work. I still get them. Some surveys are probably beneficial, but I get annoyed with the ones from your bank, asking about your last bank visit experience to cash a check or make a deposit. And places like Dick's Sporting Goods. Buy pair of sneakers and they want to know all about your shopping experience. Most of these surveys are via a third party marketing companies and I really wonder if they have any benefit. |
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#14
posted to rec.boats
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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:12:52 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote: On 10/26/17 2:07 PM, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Why should the buyer of a new inexpensive car be tolerant of a poorly assembled vehicle? Surprised the list of the least reliable cars doesn't include Jeep vehicles. It just seems to be true. If you see a car with visqueen taped over a broken window, it is not going to be a Lexus. |
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#15
posted to rec.boats
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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:17:46 -0400, John H
wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:07:10 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Could well be. But if there are more misalignments or squeaks in the Cadillac or Jag then the various Lexus' then the ratings are doing their job. The CR survey covers about 25 different 'topics' in the auto section, like sound system, navigation, engine electronics, brakes, transmission, etc. Once a topic is identified, further questions are asked if the topic was a problem area. I wouldn't think may folks would whine about their transmission if their problem was a squeak in the dash. The principle is still there tho. If I have a new Lincoln that is shifting a little rough, I am complaining. If it is a Yugo, I might just believe that is how they work. I do agree Lexus (a premium Toyota) is a well built car but it was the Japs who taught Detroit about quality. In the 70s and 80s we were talking about how well Hondas were built and the UAW was still making jokes about leaving coke bottles in the door. The only one that surprised me was the Benz. I wonder where the GLC they tested was made? Finland? Those may be left over commies from the Trebant factory ;-) |
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#16
posted to rec.boats
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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:20:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: On 10/26/2017 2:12 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/26/17 2:07 PM, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Why should the buyer of a new inexpensive car be tolerant of a poorly assembled vehicle? Surprised the list of the least reliable cars doesn't include Jeep vehicles. Me too. Based on what I've read the current crop of Jeeps have a terrible reputation for reliability problems and being outdated in design in general. My daughter can't wait until her lease is up on a Jeep Liberty she has. I've driven it. It's terrible. Transmission shudders at slow speeds but she was told it's "normal". My brother also bought a Jeep Compass a couple of months ago, replacing a 12 year old, rotted out Dodge Ram pickup. His shutters also at slow speeds, so perhaps it *is* normal. He's already shopping for a replacement for it Not much of a sampling but consistent with many of the on-line reviews. I had problems with my 72 AMC Jeep too but I beat the **** out of it. |
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#17
posted to rec.boats
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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:12:37 -0400, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:17:46 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:07:10 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Could well be. But if there are more misalignments or squeaks in the Cadillac or Jag then the various Lexus' then the ratings are doing their job. The CR survey covers about 25 different 'topics' in the auto section, like sound system, navigation, engine electronics, brakes, transmission, etc. Once a topic is identified, further questions are asked if the topic was a problem area. I wouldn't think may folks would whine about their transmission if their problem was a squeak in the dash. The principle is still there tho. If I have a new Lincoln that is shifting a little rough, I am complaining. If it is a Yugo, I might just believe that is how they work. I do agree Lexus (a premium Toyota) is a well built car but it was the Japs who taught Detroit about quality. In the 70s and 80s we were talking about how well Hondas were built and the UAW was still making jokes about leaving coke bottles in the door. The only one that surprised me was the Benz. I wonder where the GLC they tested was made? Finland? Those may be left over commies from the Trebant factory ;-) The thing for you and Luddite to do is never look at Consumer Reports. |
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#18
posted to rec.boats
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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:20:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/26/2017 2:12 PM, Keyser Soze wrote: On 10/26/17 2:07 PM, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Why should the buyer of a new inexpensive car be tolerant of a poorly assembled vehicle? Surprised the list of the least reliable cars doesn't include Jeep vehicles. Me too. Based on what I've read the current crop of Jeeps have a terrible reputation for reliability problems and being outdated in design in general. My daughter can't wait until her lease is up on a Jeep Liberty she has. I've driven it. It's terrible. Transmission shudders at slow speeds but she was told it's "normal". My brother also bought a Jeep Compass a couple of months ago, replacing a 12 year old, rotted out Dodge Ram pickup. His shutters also at slow speeds, so perhaps it *is* normal. He's already shopping for a replacement for it Not much of a sampling but consistent with many of the on-line reviews. Generally, the Jeeps, Dodges, etc are at the bottom of the CR ratings. The ratings discussed here are the reliability ratings from surveys. Maybe the Jeep owners don't do surveys, or don't want to admit problems, or the Jeep is #11 on the list of unreliable cars. Just pay no attention to Consumer Reports. I find it useful for much more than just ratings of products. |
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#19
posted to rec.boats
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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:29:47 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 10/26/2017 2:19 PM, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:08:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/26/2017 1:01 PM, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 12:18:20 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 10/26/2017 11:57 AM, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. Maybe. But I think when people are asked to participate in a survey those who have had reliability problems are more likely to respond. Whenever I read or hear such results I remind myself of the millions of people driving around with no problems but no compulsion to complete a survey form, positive or negative. I probably get a request for a survey once a week from someone. Banks, stores, Amazon, Nissan (ha) and others. I delete them as fast as they arrive. === I think the readers of Consumer Reports might be a little different in that respect. I've always been happy to rate our vehicles both good and bad. For the good ones it's a matter of giving credit where credit is due, and for the bad ones it can help to warn someone else, and possibly motivate the manufacturer to get their act together. There's no denying that the overall quality of Japanese cars forced Detroit to step up their game a notch or two, and Consumer Reports is one of the ways that the word got out. So, what happens when you respond to a survey, giving the manufacturer high grades of satisfaction and then, the next day, you discover it doesn't have any heat and you spend the next 2 months plus waiting for them to fix it without success? :-) Do you really think that Nissan was representative of the rest of them? What you do is...wait for the next survey. It will ask right off the bat if you still own the Nissan. I get a Nissan survey request weekly. I started to fill out the first one but stopped halfway through and didn't submit it. After I received a few more I "unsubscribed" from their mailing list. Didn't work. I still get them. Some surveys are probably beneficial, but I get annoyed with the ones from your bank, asking about your last bank visit experience to cash a check or make a deposit. And places like Dick's Sporting Goods. Buy pair of sneakers and they want to know all about your shopping experience. Most of these surveys are via a third party marketing companies and I really wonder if they have any benefit. I'm not talking about the bull****, every day product surveys. Hell, I get a survey request if I make an appointment for the dentist, and another one when my appointment is over. Yes, most of them are by a company that sells survey results to the various businesses. I would venture to say that the twice annually CR survey is a horse of a different color. |
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#20
posted to rec.boats
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Consumer Reports Annual Reliability Survey
On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:32:06 -0400, John H
wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:12:37 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:17:46 -0400, John H wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 14:07:10 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 11:57:10 -0400, John H wrote: Here are the '10 Least Reliable Cars' from the latest CR reliability survey. The least of the least is at the bottom. Chevrolet Camaro Mercedes-Benz GLC Jaguar F-Pace GMC Acadia Fiat 500 Ford Focus Ford Fiesta Volvo XC90 Cadillac Escalade Tesla Model X All of these got 'one out of five' in the predicted reliability rating, based on the results of the owner surveys. Maybe folks are a bit more honest than we might think when it comes to rating their own cars. I wonder if some of this is just that a guy who paid $70-100k for a Cadillac or a Jag is a little less tolerant of a little misalignment of the door or a squeak behind the dash than a guy with a $20k Versa Could well be. But if there are more misalignments or squeaks in the Cadillac or Jag then the various Lexus' then the ratings are doing their job. The CR survey covers about 25 different 'topics' in the auto section, like sound system, navigation, engine electronics, brakes, transmission, etc. Once a topic is identified, further questions are asked if the topic was a problem area. I wouldn't think may folks would whine about their transmission if their problem was a squeak in the dash. The principle is still there tho. If I have a new Lincoln that is shifting a little rough, I am complaining. If it is a Yugo, I might just believe that is how they work. I do agree Lexus (a premium Toyota) is a well built car but it was the Japs who taught Detroit about quality. In the 70s and 80s we were talking about how well Hondas were built and the UAW was still making jokes about leaving coke bottles in the door. The only one that surprised me was the Benz. I wonder where the GLC they tested was made? Finland? Those may be left over commies from the Trebant factory ;-) The thing for you and Luddite to do is never look at Consumer Reports. The reality is that for most people "quality" is really pretty far down on the list of what they look into when buying a car. They look at price, styling, performance, maybe gas mileage and the doodads available. Then there is the culture. Ford people buy Fords, Toyota people buy Toyotas etc. |
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