wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 23:47:32 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 23:13:24 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 19:33:27 -0400, wrote:

they can board and search
vessels at sea without a warrant and that extends into just about
anywhere they have jurisdiction. You see that in action here when they
will put some junior enlisted coastie on the sheriff's boat during
those enhanced enforcement weekends so they do not have to deal with
niceties if they want to look over your boat. They just send the CG
guy on board to look around. The CG does have the power to
immediately seize your boat if there are drugs on board, in any
quantity. I often wonder if that has ever been tested in court if they
are inside the COLREGS line. I know offshore guides are pretty adamant
with a "no drugs on my boat" rule.

===

Small quantities of drugs inside the COLREGS line would probably be
referred to local law enforcement similar to how suspected firearms
violations are handled.

---
I imagine but they do have the coastie on the sheriff boat now and
then. Like I said, I wonder how a court would rule if they caught a
guy with a joint in the console in the bay and the coastie turned it
up on a warrantless search.
That is not exactly the "high seas" even if the operator is high.

I know motor vehicle law is well tested on the side of the road but I
am not sure how that translates to boats. I have never actually heard
about people being "boarded" by LEOs unless they had PC they spotted
from their boat or they thought the operator was impaired. I know when
they stopped me and gave me the DUI test coming past the shrimp boats
the sheriff was in his boat and I was in mine. It was no big deal
since I was OK but I was interested in the process. He was stopping
pretty much everyone.
When the FWC guy stopped me in Mullock Creek, he stayed in his boat
too. He just had me show him I had no fish in my cooler. I ended up
showing him all of my gear but he did that in a way that I did not
feel like I was being jacked up. He was actually a very cool cop.
It was like "I really like your boat, do you keep your life jackets in
that box" sort of thing. It was just two guys talking about their
boats.



===

The gave you a breathalyzer test on your boat with no probable cause?

What if you say no?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



The breathalyzer would most likely be tossed as illegal. But fish and
wildlife seem to have a pass on checking for poaching. The CG can check
as they started as the Revenue Service and were checking for smugglers.
Still a valid reason for warrantless search.

On 4/3/2018 7:33 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 17:14:00 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/3/2018 4:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:55:59 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Keyser Soze
- show quoted text -
There's a difference between the U.S. military and the National
Guard..
,,,,

Really? My great uncle was in the Pennsylvania national guard and fought in Belgium during WW1. I had two cousins in the Illinois national guard called to Vietnam .

You amaze me, Harry.
Hahahahaha!

The most significant difference is the National Guard works for the
governor of that state not the POTUS, unless that unit gets called up.
It is a clever work around to Posse Comitatus.
As long as they work for the governor, they can be used for local law
enforcement. When Eisenhower nationalized the ANG and sent the 101st
Airborne to Little Rock to enforce the civil rights laws, it was
unconstitutional. Fortunately the cause was seen as noble enough that
nobody called him on it. These days somebody would be demanding that
he be impeached.



I think the lines are a bit fuzzy here. The National Guard is a reserve
unit although not exactly the same as the regular Army reserves. The
National Guard *can* be called up and activated by the President for
temporary duty domestically or internationally and that includes
situations where the normal enforcement of domestic laws are not
practical or feasible. Normally, the federal activation of the National
Guard by the President, Congress or Secretary of Defense takes place
upon the request of the Governor of the State in which the Guard is
located however it is not necessary. Unlike other regular reservists,
individual Guard members are not called up. Rather, they are activated
by unit.

And to make things more complex, the patrolling of the border comes
under the Department of Homeland Security. The USCG is a regular
military branch that also operates under the DHS and regularly conducts
patrols on on seas for both illegal immigrants, drug smugglers and
others attempting to evade being caught.


The NG is the last remnants of the militia. They are still under the
purview of the states tho, hence the state name in front of each
unit's name. You are right, that is not the same as the reserves which
are directly connected to each service.
The Coast Guard has always been a different breed of cat. It is and
has been a civilian service that can be called up by DoD. They still
follow all of the military customs, UCMJ etc but they have always
worked for some other civilian agency, not DoD. They make that pretty
clear to you when you are there. I was there for the Treasury days and
the Transportation days. DHS happened after 9-11.
They are really a strange hybrid with pretty much unequaled powers.
They have the power to enforce laws without bumping into Posse
Comitatus, they can enforce immigration law, they can board and search
vessels at sea without a warrant and that extends into just about
anywhere they have jurisdiction. You see that in action here when they
will put some junior enlisted coastie on the sheriff's boat during
those enhanced enforcement weekends so they do not have to deal with
niceties if they want to look over your boat. They just send the CG
guy on board to look around. The CG does have the power to
immediately seize your boat if there are drugs on board, in any
quantity. I often wonder if that has ever been tested in court if they
are inside the COLREGS line. I know offshore guides are pretty adamant
with a "no drugs on my boat" rule.



The Coast Guard can also operate under the Navy's jurisdiction and
control in certain circumstances.

On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 16:55:23 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


5:08 PMKeyser Soze
On 4/3/18 4:20 PM, Tim wrote:

3:11 PMjustan
Tim Wrote in message:
- show quoted text -
Fat Harry's ignorance isn't amazing, it's pathetic. Fat Harry
doesn't know that the National Guard is the oldest US military
service. I'd be surprised if any of Fat Harry's ancestors served
in the US military.

- show quoted text -

:::

Actually We ought to give him the benefit of the doubt, he should know especially with all his service experience etc.

You're not really any brighter than justan
....

Tell us again how you sweated the jungles if SE Asia toting body bags while directly reporting to a US General

I believe he said he searched for bodies. But, he won't touch that with a ten foot pole after
getting called on it by Luddite.

On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 18:22:10 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 4/3/18 4:11 PM, justan wrote:
Tim Wrote in message:
Keyser Soze
- show quoted text -
There's a difference between the U.S. military and the National
Guard..
,,,,

Really? My great uncle was in the Pennsylvania national guard and fought in Belgium during WW1. I had two cousins in the Illinois national guard called to Vietnam .

You amaze me, Harry.
Hahahahaha!

Fat Harry's ignorance isn't amazing, it's pathetic. Fat Harry
doesn't know tbat the National Guard is the oldest US military
service. I'd be surprised if any of Fat Harry's ancestors served
in the US military.



That has NOTHING to do with this discussion, ****-for-brains.

From one who changes the subject any time the questions get hard.

You're a joke, Krausee.

On 4/3/2018 11:13 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 19:33:27 -0400, wrote:

they can board and search
vessels at sea without a warrant and that extends into just about
anywhere they have jurisdiction. You see that in action here when they
will put some junior enlisted coastie on the sheriff's boat during
those enhanced enforcement weekends so they do not have to deal with
niceties if they want to look over your boat. They just send the CG
guy on board to look around. The CG does have the power to
immediately seize your boat if there are drugs on board, in any
quantity. I often wonder if that has ever been tested in court if they
are inside the COLREGS line. I know offshore guides are pretty adamant
with a "no drugs on my boat" rule.

===

Small quantities of drugs inside the COLREGS line would probably be
referred to local law enforcement similar to how suspected firearms
violations are handled.


That is exactly how it is handled, even if it's a regular, local CG
patrol craft that boards a recreational vessel and finds illegal drugs
or weapons. The local police department is called who meets the
offending vessel crew at the dock and arrests them.

The Massachusetts Environmental Police are the ones everyone watches out
for up here. They have broad law enforcement authority, more so than
even local or state police departments. They also operate as part of
Homeland Security assets. A MEP officer can even stop you for a traffic
violation when driving your car down the highway.

On 4/3/2018 11:47 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 23:13:24 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 19:33:27 -0400, wrote:

they can board and search
vessels at sea without a warrant and that extends into just about
anywhere they have jurisdiction. You see that in action here when they
will put some junior enlisted coastie on the sheriff's boat during
those enhanced enforcement weekends so they do not have to deal with
niceties if they want to look over your boat. They just send the CG
guy on board to look around. The CG does have the power to
immediately seize your boat if there are drugs on board, in any
quantity. I often wonder if that has ever been tested in court if they
are inside the COLREGS line. I know offshore guides are pretty adamant
with a "no drugs on my boat" rule.

===

Small quantities of drugs inside the COLREGS line would probably be
referred to local law enforcement similar to how suspected firearms
violations are handled.

---
I imagine but they do have the coastie on the sheriff boat now and
then. Like I said, I wonder how a court would rule if they caught a
guy with a joint in the console in the bay and the coastie turned it
up on a warrantless search.
That is not exactly the "high seas" even if the operator is high.

I know motor vehicle law is well tested on the side of the road but I
am not sure how that translates to boats. I have never actually heard
about people being "boarded" by LEOs unless they had PC they spotted
from their boat or they thought the operator was impaired. I know when
they stopped me and gave me the DUI test coming past the shrimp boats
the sheriff was in his boat and I was in mine. It was no big deal
since I was OK but I was interested in the process. He was stopping
pretty much everyone.
When the FWC guy stopped me in Mullock Creek, he stayed in his boat
too. He just had me show him I had no fish in my cooler. I ended up
showing him all of my gear but he did that in a way that I did not
feel like I was being jacked up. He was actually a very cool cop.
It was like "I really like your boat, do you keep your life jackets in
that box" sort of thing. It was just two guys talking about their
boats.



I've never seen CG personnel on local police, environmental police or
state police boats up here. They patrol in their own semi-rigid boats
with twin outboards. They are armed and often conduct boarding's and
inspections of recreational craft. Any serious violations such as drugs
or illegal weapons are reported to the local police department who
arrive at the dock and take the violators into custody.

On Wed, 4 Apr 2018 05:21:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/3/2018 7:33 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 17:14:00 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/3/2018 4:19 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:55:59 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

Keyser Soze
- show quoted text -
There's a difference between the U.S. military and the National
Guard..
,,,,

Really? My great uncle was in the Pennsylvania national guard and fought in Belgium during WW1. I had two cousins in the Illinois national guard called to Vietnam .

You amaze me, Harry.
Hahahahaha!

The most significant difference is the National Guard works for the
governor of that state not the POTUS, unless that unit gets called up.
It is a clever work around to Posse Comitatus.
As long as they work for the governor, they can be used for local law
enforcement. When Eisenhower nationalized the ANG and sent the 101st
Airborne to Little Rock to enforce the civil rights laws, it was
unconstitutional. Fortunately the cause was seen as noble enough that
nobody called him on it. These days somebody would be demanding that
he be impeached.



I think the lines are a bit fuzzy here. The National Guard is a reserve
unit although not exactly the same as the regular Army reserves. The
National Guard *can* be called up and activated by the President for
temporary duty domestically or internationally and that includes
situations where the normal enforcement of domestic laws are not
practical or feasible. Normally, the federal activation of the National
Guard by the President, Congress or Secretary of Defense takes place
upon the request of the Governor of the State in which the Guard is
located however it is not necessary. Unlike other regular reservists,
individual Guard members are not called up. Rather, they are activated
by unit.

And to make things more complex, the patrolling of the border comes
under the Department of Homeland Security. The USCG is a regular
military branch that also operates under the DHS and regularly conducts
patrols on on seas for both illegal immigrants, drug smugglers and
others attempting to evade being caught.


The NG is the last remnants of the militia. They are still under the
purview of the states tho, hence the state name in front of each
unit's name. You are right, that is not the same as the reserves which
are directly connected to each service.
The Coast Guard has always been a different breed of cat. It is and
has been a civilian service that can be called up by DoD. They still
follow all of the military customs, UCMJ etc but they have always
worked for some other civilian agency, not DoD. They make that pretty
clear to you when you are there. I was there for the Treasury days and
the Transportation days. DHS happened after 9-11.
They are really a strange hybrid with pretty much unequaled powers.
They have the power to enforce laws without bumping into Posse
Comitatus, they can enforce immigration law, they can board and search
vessels at sea without a warrant and that extends into just about
anywhere they have jurisdiction. You see that in action here when they
will put some junior enlisted coastie on the sheriff's boat during
those enhanced enforcement weekends so they do not have to deal with
niceties if they want to look over your boat. They just send the CG
guy on board to look around. The CG does have the power to
immediately seize your boat if there are drugs on board, in any
quantity. I often wonder if that has ever been tested in court if they
are inside the COLREGS line. I know offshore guides are pretty adamant
with a "no drugs on my boat" rule.



The Coast Guard can also operate under the Navy's jurisdiction and
control in certain circumstances.

Usually that has to be at the direction of the POTUS. It used to be
"in time of war" but that line got blurred during the Truman and LBJ
administrations when the president unilaterally declared war. Since
then a war is whatever the president says it is.