So, Gould, are you suggesting Yamaha, and Mercury didn't pay for inclusion in
the survey? How about the others? Think they didn't pay to play?

The survey company doesn't just wake up some morning, yawn and stretch, and
say,
"I think it's time to do outboard motors!"

What happens in these situations is that the survey company has salespeople who
are continuously pitching prospective clients about the incredible value that
the marketing research will bring to the company's business. In fact, the
survey company will be glad to conduct a survey in the prospect's industry for
the small sum of just $XXXXXX.XX.

The surveys are performed for individual, corporate, clients. The questions can
easily be shaped so that the answers are predictable.

Suppose that Anchor Company A agreed to have J.D. Pourboy Surveys do a survey
among boaters to determine what sort of ground tackle people prefer. J.D.
Pourboy Surveys will charge Anchor Company A a $10,000 retainer, $10 apiece for
mailing 4,000 surveys, and another $10k to tabulate the results. (The whole
project can be completed by two part time employees in about a month).

Now, when JD Pourboy shows up at the Anchor CO office wth survey in hand and
says, "Well, we ran the survey. Everybody says your gear is crap and they'd
rather use a concrete block on a kite string than
one of your anchors and rode"..........you suppose the Anchor Co is going to be
happy to write that check for the final $50k? No, no, no.

So, how does J.D. Pourboy make sure that Anchor Co come out mile ahead of the
competition? Anchor Co is the only maker of anchors that includes a buoy and a
release line as standard equipment. Questions are designed that get
affirmations from surfey takers that ease of release and the ability to know
the anchor's actual position are critically important and make a product
better.

Another technique is the not-so-blind mailing list. Anchor Co A has the names
and addresses of several thousand people who have bought a single Anchor Co A
hook, and even the names of several hundred people who have purchased two or
three over the years. (satisfied customers)
Using the mailing list provided by the Anchor Company itself as a major portion
of the survey mailing is a sure way to get a high percentage of favorable
responses.

When Consumer Reports does a study, you need to buy the magazine to get the
information. That's how they make their money. Every pay anything to see the
results of a JD Powers Survey? Ask yourself; "How do they make any money?"

Are you basing this on actual knowledge of the way J.D.Power opertes or are
you basing this on what could happen? In the automotive industry all
manufacturers buy them, but only a few get the top rating.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
So, Gould, are you suggesting Yamaha, and Mercury didn't pay for
inclusion in
the survey? How about the others? Think they didn't pay to play?

The survey company doesn't just wake up some morning, yawn and stretch,
and
say,
"I think it's time to do outboard motors!"

What happens in these situations is that the survey company has
salespeople who
are continuously pitching prospective clients about the incredible value
that
the marketing research will bring to the company's business. In fact, the
survey company will be glad to conduct a survey in the prospect's industry
for
the small sum of just $XXXXXX.XX.

The surveys are performed for individual, corporate, clients. The
questions can
easily be shaped so that the answers are predictable.

Suppose that Anchor Company A agreed to have J.D. Pourboy Surveys do a
survey
among boaters to determine what sort of ground tackle people prefer. J.D.
Pourboy Surveys will charge Anchor Company A a $10,000 retainer, $10
apiece for
mailing 4,000 surveys, and another $10k to tabulate the results. (The
whole
project can be completed by two part time employees in about a month).

Now, when JD Pourboy shows up at the Anchor CO office wth survey in hand
and
says, "Well, we ran the survey. Everybody says your gear is crap and
they'd
rather use a concrete block on a kite string than
one of your anchors and rode"..........you suppose the Anchor Co is going
to be
happy to write that check for the final $50k? No, no, no.

So, how does J.D. Pourboy make sure that Anchor Co come out mile ahead of
the
competition? Anchor Co is the only maker of anchors that includes a buoy
and a
release line as standard equipment. Questions are designed that get
affirmations from surfey takers that ease of release and the ability to
know
the anchor's actual position are critically important and make a product
better.

Another technique is the not-so-blind mailing list. Anchor Co A has the
names
and addresses of several thousand people who have bought a single Anchor
Co A
hook, and even the names of several hundred people who have purchased two
or
three over the years. (satisfied customers)
Using the mailing list provided by the Anchor Company itself as a major
portion
of the survey mailing is a sure way to get a high percentage of favorable
responses.

When Consumer Reports does a study, you need to buy the magazine to get
the
information. That's how they make their money. Every pay anything to see
the
results of a JD Powers Survey? Ask yourself; "How do they make any money?"

Gould seems to be seeing black helocopters everywhere he looks. If only
Yamaha had bought the survey, they would have come out number one.


"JDavis1277" wrote in message
...
So, Gould, are you suggesting Yamaha, and Mercury didn't pay for inclusion
in
the survey? How about the others? Think they didn't pay to play?

Results of the survey may indeed be inaccurate, but has Bayliner ever
placed
well?

Butch

Are you basing this on actual knowledge of the way J.D.Power opertes or are
you basing this on what could happen? In the automotive industry all
manufacturers buy them, but only a few get the top rating.

Aren't you the same guy that just made the wise ass personal remark?

See that black helicopter outside? It's got a rotor on top. Go sit on it. And
spin. :-)

Then when you're done getting even dizzier, I'll suggest an exercise for you
that will allow you, or any other thinking person, to draw a personal
conclusion. Wouldn't expect you to take the word of a black helicopterist.

Is that JD Power "survey" that supposedly proves Cobalt boats are the be all
and end all of everything afloat still around? If so, take a look at the
rankings list. As I recall,
there's a big, gold colored #1, or a blue ribbon, or some other abso-friggin
lutely non-objective bit of colorful artwork tagged to the Cobalt name. Is this
the way a scientific and objective study reports findings? Why is it that JD
Powers wants to be *absolutely certain* nobody misses Cobalt at the top of the
heap?

Then look at the other boats that didn't fare so well. Notice that the survey
doesn't use any real statistics, just a group of choices from "really good" to
"POS" How many points separate really good from POS. Is the scale standardized
between one question and the next, or one brand and the next? There is no way
to know.

For a good many people, this kind of presentation is completely believable. As
long as that remains the case, there is a bright future for the private survey
companies.

As far as the automotive industry goes, I worked in autos for about 20 years. I
was a partner in a new car dealership for a while, and I've served on marketing
committees for Chrysler and Subaru. I am very well acquainted with JD Powers
and how the whole survey business is operated.

Gould 0738 wrote:
So, Gould, are you suggesting Yamaha, and Mercury didn't pay for inclusion in
the survey? How about the others? Think they didn't pay to play?


The survey company doesn't just wake up some morning, yawn and stretch, and
say,
"I think it's time to do outboard motors!"

What happens in these situations is that the survey company has salespeople who
are continuously pitching prospective clients about the incredible value that
the marketing research will bring to the company's business. In fact, the
survey company will be glad to conduct a survey in the prospect's industry for
the small sum of just $XXXXXX.XX.

The surveys are performed for individual, corporate, clients. The questions can
easily be shaped so that the answers are predictable.

Suppose that Anchor Company A agreed to have J.D. Pourboy Surveys do a survey
among boaters to determine what sort of ground tackle people prefer. J.D.
Pourboy Surveys will charge Anchor Company A a $10,000 retainer, $10 apiece for
mailing 4,000 surveys, and another $10k to tabulate the results. (The whole
project can be completed by two part time employees in about a month).

Now, when JD Pourboy shows up at the Anchor CO office wth survey in hand and
says, "Well, we ran the survey. Everybody says your gear is crap and they'd
rather use a concrete block on a kite string than
one of your anchors and rode"..........you suppose the Anchor Co is going to be
happy to write that check for the final $50k? No, no, no.

So, how does J.D. Pourboy make sure that Anchor Co come out mile ahead of the
competition? Anchor Co is the only maker of anchors that includes a buoy and a
release line as standard equipment. Questions are designed that get
affirmations from surfey takers that ease of release and the ability to know
the anchor's actual position are critically important and make a product
better.

Another technique is the not-so-blind mailing list. Anchor Co A has the names
and addresses of several thousand people who have bought a single Anchor Co A
hook, and even the names of several hundred people who have purchased two or
three over the years. (satisfied customers)
Using the mailing list provided by the Anchor Company itself as a major portion
of the survey mailing is a sure way to get a high percentage of favorable
responses.

When Consumer Reports does a study, you need to buy the magazine to get the
information. That's how they make their money. Every pay anything to see the
results of a JD Powers Survey? Ask yourself; "How do they make any money?"



I participated in a Powers survey on my Yamahfa F225. It was
straightforward and met generally accepted, legit survey standards.

There were several ways to respond to different parts of the survey, on
a 1-20 scale and on an excellent to poor scale.

I see a lot of these kind of surveys and I even write some from time to
time. You're way over the top on this Chuck.

I participated in a Powers survey on my Yamahfa F225. It was
straightforward and met generally accepted, legit survey standards.

There were several ways to respond to different parts of the survey, on
a 1-20 scale and on an excellent to poor scale.

I see a lot of these kind of surveys and I even write some from time to
time. You're way over the top on this Chuck.


You think? I think you're so thrilled that JD Powers has come up with something
that refutes Karen Smith you'd chisel into the nearest rock if you had the
tools handy. :-)

You should know better, Harry. Particularly since you have "helped write"
similar surveys. The fish you catch depend entirely on the bait you use.

I understand that surveys can be biased, I just have never heard that JD
Powers is considered a bias survey. Your comment is not consistent with
what I have read other places. Since companies not only want to know when
they are doing good, but what they need to do to improve, they would still
buy the survey to see the consumers perception of their product. While my
"black helicopter" comment was smart ass, it does seem to be an accurate of
your perception of JD Powers.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Are you basing this on actual knowledge of the way J.D.Power opertes or
are
you basing this on what could happen? In the automotive industry all
manufacturers buy them, but only a few get the top rating.

Aren't you the same guy that just made the wise ass personal remark?

See that black helicopter outside? It's got a rotor on top. Go sit on it.
And
spin. :-)

Then when you're done getting even dizzier, I'll suggest an exercise for
you
that will allow you, or any other thinking person, to draw a personal
conclusion. Wouldn't expect you to take the word of a black helicopterist.

Is that JD Power "survey" that supposedly proves Cobalt boats are the be
all
and end all of everything afloat still around? If so, take a look at the
rankings list. As I recall,
there's a big, gold colored #1, or a blue ribbon, or some other
abso-friggin
lutely non-objective bit of colorful artwork tagged to the Cobalt name. Is
this
the way a scientific and objective study reports findings? Why is it that
JD
Powers wants to be *absolutely certain* nobody misses Cobalt at the top of
the
heap?

Then look at the other boats that didn't fare so well. Notice that the
survey
doesn't use any real statistics, just a group of choices from "really
good" to
"POS" How many points separate really good from POS. Is the scale
standardized
between one question and the next, or one brand and the next? There is no
way
to know.

For a good many people, this kind of presentation is completely
believable. As
long as that remains the case, there is a bright future for the private
survey
companies.

As far as the automotive industry goes, I worked in autos for about 20
years. I
was a partner in a new car dealership for a while, and I've served on
marketing
committees for Chrysler and Subaru. I am very well acquainted with JD
Powers
and how the whole survey business is operated.

If you go to JD Powers web site they have reviewed many different models and
products ( http://www.jdpower.com/cc ). If the survey was controlled by
the manufacturer, I would not have expected Sea Ray to come in number 1, and
Bayliner and Maxum to be next to the last, since they are all owned by the
same company. Yes, survey can be biased and yes companies can pay to get a
survey to say anything they want, but I don't think the facts back up your
claim that JD Powers can be bought to say anything you want.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Are you basing this on actual knowledge of the way J.D.Power opertes or
are
you basing this on what could happen? In the automotive industry all
manufacturers buy them, but only a few get the top rating.

Aren't you the same guy that just made the wise ass personal remark?

See that black helicopter outside? It's got a rotor on top. Go sit on it.
And
spin. :-)

Then when you're done getting even dizzier, I'll suggest an exercise for
you
that will allow you, or any other thinking person, to draw a personal
conclusion. Wouldn't expect you to take the word of a black helicopterist.

Is that JD Power "survey" that supposedly proves Cobalt boats are the be
all
and end all of everything afloat still around? If so, take a look at the
rankings list. As I recall,
there's a big, gold colored #1, or a blue ribbon, or some other
abso-friggin
lutely non-objective bit of colorful artwork tagged to the Cobalt name. Is
this
the way a scientific and objective study reports findings? Why is it that
JD
Powers wants to be *absolutely certain* nobody misses Cobalt at the top of
the
heap?

Then look at the other boats that didn't fare so well. Notice that the
survey
doesn't use any real statistics, just a group of choices from "really
good" to
"POS" How many points separate really good from POS. Is the scale
standardized
between one question and the next, or one brand and the next? There is no
way
to know.

For a good many people, this kind of presentation is completely
believable. As
long as that remains the case, there is a bright future for the private
survey
companies.

As far as the automotive industry goes, I worked in autos for about 20
years. I
was a partner in a new car dealership for a while, and I've served on
marketing
committees for Chrysler and Subaru. I am very well acquainted with JD
Powers
and how the whole survey business is operated.

"Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting
the results to be different."

The results of your posts don't change, K. Looks like the content
doesn't either.

Rick

Karen,

I know for a *fact* that Harry owned an early Opti. I don't agree with his
OT provoking. But I know what I know too.

-W

"K Smith" wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote:
Gould 0738 wrote:

So, Gould, are you suggesting Yamaha, and Mercury didn't pay for
inclusion in
the survey? How about the others? Think they didn't pay to play?



The survey company doesn't just wake up some morning, yawn and
stretch, and
say,
"I think it's time to do outboard motors!"

What happens in these situations is that the survey company has
salespeople who
are continuously pitching prospective clients about the incredible
value that
the marketing research will bring to the company's business. In fact,
the
survey company will be glad to conduct a survey in the prospect's
industry for
the small sum of just $XXXXXX.XX.

The surveys are performed for individual, corporate, clients. The
questions can
easily be shaped so that the answers are predictable.

Suppose that Anchor Company A agreed to have J.D. Pourboy Surveys do a
survey
among boaters to determine what sort of ground tackle people prefer.
J.D.
Pourboy Surveys will charge Anchor Company A a $10,000 retainer, $10
apiece for
mailing 4,000 surveys, and another $10k to tabulate the results. (The
whole
project can be completed by two part time employees in about a month).

Now, when JD Pourboy shows up at the Anchor CO office wth survey in
hand and
says, "Well, we ran the survey. Everybody says your gear is crap and
they'd
rather use a concrete block on a kite string than
one of your anchors and rode"..........you suppose the Anchor Co is
going to be
happy to write that check for the final $50k? No, no, no.

So, how does J.D. Pourboy make sure that Anchor Co come out mile ahead
of the
competition? Anchor Co is the only maker of anchors that includes a
buoy and a
release line as standard equipment. Questions are designed that get
affirmations from surfey takers that ease of release and the ability
to know
the anchor's actual position are critically important and make a
product
better.

Another technique is the not-so-blind mailing list. Anchor Co A has
the names
and addresses of several thousand people who have bought a single
Anchor Co A
hook, and even the names of several hundred people who have purchased
two or
three over the years. (satisfied customers)
Using the mailing list provided by the Anchor Company itself as a
major portion
of the survey mailing is a sure way to get a high percentage of
favorable
responses.

When Consumer Reports does a study, you need to buy the magazine to
get the
information. That's how they make their money. Every pay anything to
see the
results of a JD Powers Survey? Ask yourself; "How do they make any
money?"



I participated in a Powers survey on my Yamahfa F225. It was
straightforward and met generally accepted, legit survey standards.

Lies upon lies nothing more!! Harry does not & probably never will
"own" any OB nor boat. BS absolute BS he slimes his way into the graces
of real boat owners, then pretends it's "his" boat till they shop him &
tell him to **** off. It happened very quickly with the lie lobster boat
but because the real owner of the Parker is obviously a busy bloke it's
taking longer this time, so the liar of all time has a problem he can't
explain why the boat isn't used, so he reverts back to his original lie
that he's using "his" other lie the custom naval architect designed &
custom built 36ft lobster boat.


There were several ways to respond to different parts of the survey, on
a 1-20 scale and on an excellent to poor scale.

Gee he's seen the survey form?? probably not!! more likely it's been in
a boating magazine where he gathers many of his lies.

I see a lot of these kind of surveys and I even write some from time to
time. You're way over the top on this Chuck.

Another "I am" lie from Harry!!! Is there no end to his BS!!! He can't
write, has never written nor understood anything here, he just pastes
deceptive lefty articles or plagiarises others in the NG. He's near
illiterate proving once & for all the reason he can't substantiate any
of his education lies from 3 yrs of med to 4 degrees 2 masters is
because it's ALL untrue. I have to comment this time even Chuck, an
actual real writer, can't stay silent, good on ya Chuckster.

K