Greg recently asked about vintage Gibson Les Paul guitars. At one time
I could identify and price just about any Gibson model by year but I've
forgotten most of that information. In general, a used Gibson Les Paul
or a Gibson Standard, depending on condition, is usually worth somewhere
between $1,800 and $2,500 with a few exceptions. Obviously, the older
it is makes it worth more as a collectable but so many of them have
been produced over the years that they don't have any exceptional value.
One exception was Mary Ford's original Gibson Les Paul model that was
purchased and then sold by "Pawn Stars". I think it went for about $90K.

Gibson monkeyed around with the design of the original Les Paul or
Standard model over the years. They are very heavy guitars (compared to
a Fender Telecaster or Stratocaster and Gibson came out with some
"lightened" versions by hollowing out some of the body, so you have to
watch what you buy.

There are some exceptions in the value of used ones. A guy by the name
of Tom Murphy ran the finishing department at Gibson for a few years and
he personally did some of the really high quality flamed wood finishes
on some guitars.

I unknowingly bought one of these when I had the guitar shop. Obviously
the guy I bought it from didn't know about Murphy either. I paid $1,600
for the guitar.

Doing some research on it's serial number I discovered it may be one of
the ones that Murphy personally finished. The proof is tying the serial
number to his hidden initials in the bottom of the wiring compartment on
the back of the guitar. I opened it up, pushed the wires and shielding
aside and sure enough, the "TM" initials were there. Took a picture
along with the rest of the guitar and put it on eBay for kicks. Ended
up with two guys in a bidding war for it and it ended up selling for $6,500.

By the time I gave up the guitar shop in 2014, the quality of new Gibson
guitars had declined dramatically. People used to bring a brand new
Gibson for my buddy Rick to set up and make it playable. They were
horrible fresh out of the box. Gibson also recently filed for bankruptcy.

BTW ... Gibson was originally located in Kalamazoo, Michigan and made
mandolins. Les Paul is often credited as "inventing" the first electric
guitar but that's not really true. Electric guitars with magnetic
pickups were first used by jazz guitarists who played with the big
bands of the 30's and 40's. As the bands became bigger and louder, the
guitarist playing an acoustic jazz guitar couldn't be heard so they
started adding a pickup and small amplifier. A true jazz guitar is a
little different than a typical electric guitar. The pickup is mounted
on a bracket attached to the bottom end of the fretboard instead on on
the guitar body and only one pickup is used usually with a volume
control only although some have a tone control as well. The location of
the pickup attached to the fretboard produces a much more mellow tone
overall that is characteristic of the sound of a true jazz guitar.

Playing a jazz guitar in true jazz guitar style is difficult to learn.
(I know ... I've been trying for years). Jazz guitarists play
melodies using complete chords ... known as the "jazz chord melody"
style of playing. Usually a guitarist only uses a string or two
at a time if playing a solo or riff. B.B. King played his guitar
"Lucille" using only two strings at a time.

Anyway, one other comment. When Gibson moved manufacturing from
Kalamazoo to Nashville, starting in 1974 many of the skilled
craftsmen didn't want to re-locate with the company. With Gibson's
approval a group of them stayed in Kalamazoo and started a company
called "Heritage" guitars. Heritage guitars are built by hand,
the way Gibsons used to be built until they went with automated, CNC
production, using equipment and tools left behind by Gibson in the
original Kalamazoo facility. Not as well known as "Gibson" and not
anywhere near as expensive, the Heritage guitars are more original
"Gibson" than any Gibson made since the mid 80's. I've had a couple
of Heritage guitars ... Les Paul types ... and they are far superior
in both quality and sound than anything Gibson has made in the past
20 or 30 years.

On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 07:51:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Greg recently asked about vintage Gibson Les Paul guitars. At one time
I could identify and price just about any Gibson model by year but I've
forgotten most of that information. In general, a used Gibson Les Paul
or a Gibson Standard, depending on condition, is usually worth somewhere
between $1,800 and $2,500 with a few exceptions. Obviously, the older
it is makes it worth more as a collectable but so many of them have
been produced over the years that they don't have any exceptional value.
One exception was Mary Ford's original Gibson Les Paul model that was
purchased and then sold by "Pawn Stars". I think it went for about $90K.

Gibson monkeyed around with the design of the original Les Paul or
Standard model over the years. They are very heavy guitars (compared to
a Fender Telecaster or Stratocaster and Gibson came out with some
"lightened" versions by hollowing out some of the body, so you have to
watch what you buy.

There are some exceptions in the value of used ones. A guy by the name
of Tom Murphy ran the finishing department at Gibson for a few years and
he personally did some of the really high quality flamed wood finishes
on some guitars.

I unknowingly bought one of these when I had the guitar shop. Obviously
the guy I bought it from didn't know about Murphy either. I paid $1,600
for the guitar.

Doing some research on it's serial number I discovered it may be one of
the ones that Murphy personally finished. The proof is tying the serial
number to his hidden initials in the bottom of the wiring compartment on
the back of the guitar. I opened it up, pushed the wires and shielding
aside and sure enough, the "TM" initials were there. Took a picture
along with the rest of the guitar and put it on eBay for kicks. Ended
up with two guys in a bidding war for it and it ended up selling for $6,500.

By the time I gave up the guitar shop in 2014, the quality of new Gibson
guitars had declined dramatically. People used to bring a brand new
Gibson for my buddy Rick to set up and make it playable. They were
horrible fresh out of the box. Gibson also recently filed for bankruptcy.

BTW ... Gibson was originally located in Kalamazoo, Michigan and made
mandolins. Les Paul is often credited as "inventing" the first electric
guitar but that's not really true. Electric guitars with magnetic
pickups were first used by jazz guitarists who played with the big
bands of the 30's and 40's. As the bands became bigger and louder, the
guitarist playing an acoustic jazz guitar couldn't be heard so they
started adding a pickup and small amplifier. A true jazz guitar is a
little different than a typical electric guitar. The pickup is mounted
on a bracket attached to the bottom end of the fretboard instead on on
the guitar body and only one pickup is used usually with a volume
control only although some have a tone control as well. The location of
the pickup attached to the fretboard produces a much more mellow tone
overall that is characteristic of the sound of a true jazz guitar.

Playing a jazz guitar in true jazz guitar style is difficult to learn.
(I know ... I've been trying for years). Jazz guitarists play
melodies using complete chords ... known as the "jazz chord melody"
style of playing. Usually a guitarist only uses a string or two
at a time if playing a solo or riff. B.B. King played his guitar
"Lucille" using only two strings at a time.

Anyway, one other comment. When Gibson moved manufacturing from
Kalamazoo to Nashville, starting in 1974 many of the skilled
craftsmen didn't want to re-locate with the company. With Gibson's
approval a group of them stayed in Kalamazoo and started a company
called "Heritage" guitars. Heritage guitars are built by hand,
the way Gibsons used to be built until they went with automated, CNC
production, using equipment and tools left behind by Gibson in the
original Kalamazoo facility. Not as well known as "Gibson" and not
anywhere near as expensive, the Heritage guitars are more original
"Gibson" than any Gibson made since the mid 80's. I've had a couple
of Heritage guitars ... Les Paul types ... and they are far superior
in both quality and sound than anything Gibson has made in the past
20 or 30 years.



Thanks, interesting stuff. One thing struck me. I wonder how many of
those Michigan folks ended up moving down south when they retired.
I hadn't thought of it but BB really doesn't play that many strings.
He will pick one and make a lot of different notes out of it with his
"slide" style. The Flamenco guys and other "pickers" like Nancy Wilson
also play one string at a time, really fast. After listening to them I
started thinking strummers were lazy.

On 8/5/2018 12:28 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 07:51:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Greg recently asked about vintage Gibson Les Paul guitars. At one time
I could identify and price just about any Gibson model by year but I've
forgotten most of that information. In general, a used Gibson Les Paul
or a Gibson Standard, depending on condition, is usually worth somewhere
between $1,800 and $2,500 with a few exceptions. Obviously, the older
it is makes it worth more as a collectable but so many of them have
been produced over the years that they don't have any exceptional value.
One exception was Mary Ford's original Gibson Les Paul model that was
purchased and then sold by "Pawn Stars". I think it went for about $90K.

Gibson monkeyed around with the design of the original Les Paul or
Standard model over the years. They are very heavy guitars (compared to
a Fender Telecaster or Stratocaster and Gibson came out with some
"lightened" versions by hollowing out some of the body, so you have to
watch what you buy.

There are some exceptions in the value of used ones. A guy by the name
of Tom Murphy ran the finishing department at Gibson for a few years and
he personally did some of the really high quality flamed wood finishes
on some guitars.

I unknowingly bought one of these when I had the guitar shop. Obviously
the guy I bought it from didn't know about Murphy either. I paid $1,600
for the guitar.

Doing some research on it's serial number I discovered it may be one of
the ones that Murphy personally finished. The proof is tying the serial
number to his hidden initials in the bottom of the wiring compartment on
the back of the guitar. I opened it up, pushed the wires and shielding
aside and sure enough, the "TM" initials were there. Took a picture
along with the rest of the guitar and put it on eBay for kicks. Ended
up with two guys in a bidding war for it and it ended up selling for $6,500.

By the time I gave up the guitar shop in 2014, the quality of new Gibson
guitars had declined dramatically. People used to bring a brand new
Gibson for my buddy Rick to set up and make it playable. They were
horrible fresh out of the box. Gibson also recently filed for bankruptcy.

BTW ... Gibson was originally located in Kalamazoo, Michigan and made
mandolins. Les Paul is often credited as "inventing" the first electric
guitar but that's not really true. Electric guitars with magnetic
pickups were first used by jazz guitarists who played with the big
bands of the 30's and 40's. As the bands became bigger and louder, the
guitarist playing an acoustic jazz guitar couldn't be heard so they
started adding a pickup and small amplifier. A true jazz guitar is a
little different than a typical electric guitar. The pickup is mounted
on a bracket attached to the bottom end of the fretboard instead on on
the guitar body and only one pickup is used usually with a volume
control only although some have a tone control as well. The location of
the pickup attached to the fretboard produces a much more mellow tone
overall that is characteristic of the sound of a true jazz guitar.

Playing a jazz guitar in true jazz guitar style is difficult to learn.
(I know ... I've been trying for years). Jazz guitarists play
melodies using complete chords ... known as the "jazz chord melody"
style of playing. Usually a guitarist only uses a string or two
at a time if playing a solo or riff. B.B. King played his guitar
"Lucille" using only two strings at a time.

Anyway, one other comment. When Gibson moved manufacturing from
Kalamazoo to Nashville, starting in 1974 many of the skilled
craftsmen didn't want to re-locate with the company. With Gibson's
approval a group of them stayed in Kalamazoo and started a company
called "Heritage" guitars. Heritage guitars are built by hand,
the way Gibsons used to be built until they went with automated, CNC
production, using equipment and tools left behind by Gibson in the
original Kalamazoo facility. Not as well known as "Gibson" and not
anywhere near as expensive, the Heritage guitars are more original
"Gibson" than any Gibson made since the mid 80's. I've had a couple
of Heritage guitars ... Les Paul types ... and they are far superior
in both quality and sound than anything Gibson has made in the past
20 or 30 years.



Thanks, interesting stuff. One thing struck me. I wonder how many of
those Michigan folks ended up moving down south when they retired.
I hadn't thought of it but BB really doesn't play that many strings.
He will pick one and make a lot of different notes out of it with his
"slide" style. The Flamenco guys and other "pickers" like Nancy Wilson
also play one string at a time, really fast. After listening to them I
started thinking strummers were lazy.


Unfortunately, B.B. doesn't play anything anymore.

Oh .. I forgot. The first pickups used on jazz guitars were "borrowed"
from lap steel guitars that were first equipped with a primitive
magnetic pickup in the early 1930's. The general manager at Gibson
improved on the design and patented it in 1937. All Les Paul really
had to do with it was to "endorse" it, not to take away from his other
creative inventions.

I had a Teac reel to reel tape deck in the early 70's that had four
heads and four distinct channels. You could record "sound with sound"
whereby you played a recording on one track and recorded another on one
of the three other tracks. It also recorded in a "sound *on* sound"
mode where you could add to or combine multiple tracks onto one track
without erasing what had been previously recorded. Made for limitless
possibilities. Looked like this one:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1QBLju2eTv4/maxresdefault.jpg

On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 13:20:28 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/5/2018 12:28 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 07:51:43 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Greg recently asked about vintage Gibson Les Paul guitars. At one time
I could identify and price just about any Gibson model by year but I've
forgotten most of that information. In general, a used Gibson Les Paul
or a Gibson Standard, depending on condition, is usually worth somewhere
between $1,800 and $2,500 with a few exceptions. Obviously, the older
it is makes it worth more as a collectable but so many of them have
been produced over the years that they don't have any exceptional value.
One exception was Mary Ford's original Gibson Les Paul model that was
purchased and then sold by "Pawn Stars". I think it went for about $90K.

Gibson monkeyed around with the design of the original Les Paul or
Standard model over the years. They are very heavy guitars (compared to
a Fender Telecaster or Stratocaster and Gibson came out with some
"lightened" versions by hollowing out some of the body, so you have to
watch what you buy.

There are some exceptions in the value of used ones. A guy by the name
of Tom Murphy ran the finishing department at Gibson for a few years and
he personally did some of the really high quality flamed wood finishes
on some guitars.

I unknowingly bought one of these when I had the guitar shop. Obviously
the guy I bought it from didn't know about Murphy either. I paid $1,600
for the guitar.

Doing some research on it's serial number I discovered it may be one of
the ones that Murphy personally finished. The proof is tying the serial
number to his hidden initials in the bottom of the wiring compartment on
the back of the guitar. I opened it up, pushed the wires and shielding
aside and sure enough, the "TM" initials were there. Took a picture
along with the rest of the guitar and put it on eBay for kicks. Ended
up with two guys in a bidding war for it and it ended up selling for $6,500.

By the time I gave up the guitar shop in 2014, the quality of new Gibson
guitars had declined dramatically. People used to bring a brand new
Gibson for my buddy Rick to set up and make it playable. They were
horrible fresh out of the box. Gibson also recently filed for bankruptcy.

BTW ... Gibson was originally located in Kalamazoo, Michigan and made
mandolins. Les Paul is often credited as "inventing" the first electric
guitar but that's not really true. Electric guitars with magnetic
pickups were first used by jazz guitarists who played with the big
bands of the 30's and 40's. As the bands became bigger and louder, the
guitarist playing an acoustic jazz guitar couldn't be heard so they
started adding a pickup and small amplifier. A true jazz guitar is a
little different than a typical electric guitar. The pickup is mounted
on a bracket attached to the bottom end of the fretboard instead on on
the guitar body and only one pickup is used usually with a volume
control only although some have a tone control as well. The location of
the pickup attached to the fretboard produces a much more mellow tone
overall that is characteristic of the sound of a true jazz guitar.

Playing a jazz guitar in true jazz guitar style is difficult to learn.
(I know ... I've been trying for years). Jazz guitarists play
melodies using complete chords ... known as the "jazz chord melody"
style of playing. Usually a guitarist only uses a string or two
at a time if playing a solo or riff. B.B. King played his guitar
"Lucille" using only two strings at a time.

Anyway, one other comment. When Gibson moved manufacturing from
Kalamazoo to Nashville, starting in 1974 many of the skilled
craftsmen didn't want to re-locate with the company. With Gibson's
approval a group of them stayed in Kalamazoo and started a company
called "Heritage" guitars. Heritage guitars are built by hand,
the way Gibsons used to be built until they went with automated, CNC
production, using equipment and tools left behind by Gibson in the
original Kalamazoo facility. Not as well known as "Gibson" and not
anywhere near as expensive, the Heritage guitars are more original
"Gibson" than any Gibson made since the mid 80's. I've had a couple
of Heritage guitars ... Les Paul types ... and they are far superior
in both quality and sound than anything Gibson has made in the past
20 or 30 years.



Thanks, interesting stuff. One thing struck me. I wonder how many of
those Michigan folks ended up moving down south when they retired.
I hadn't thought of it but BB really doesn't play that many strings.
He will pick one and make a lot of different notes out of it with his
"slide" style. The Flamenco guys and other "pickers" like Nancy Wilson
also play one string at a time, really fast. After listening to them I
started thinking strummers were lazy.


Unfortunately, B.B. doesn't play anything anymore.

Oh .. I forgot. The first pickups used on jazz guitars were "borrowed"
from lap steel guitars that were first equipped with a primitive
magnetic pickup in the early 1930's. The general manager at Gibson
improved on the design and patented it in 1937. All Les Paul really
had to do with it was to "endorse" it, not to take away from his other
creative inventions.

I had a Teac reel to reel tape deck in the early 70's that had four
heads and four distinct channels. You could record "sound with sound"
whereby you played a recording on one track and recorded another on one
of the three other tracks. It also recorded in a "sound *on* sound"
mode where you could add to or combine multiple tracks onto one track
without erasing what had been previously recorded. Made for limitless
possibilities. Looked like this one:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1QBLju2eTv4/maxresdefault.jpg

My old Roberts 725 8L did that too, along with an 8 track recorder. It
was only 2 tracks. I never really tried to use the reel recording
along with the 8 track tho. I am not sure if that would have given me
4 tracks read or write or not. They did run together. I could copy
either way.
You could record 8 tracks tho and that made it pretty special when
most cars had 8 track players.
I ended up buying another regular component style recorder that had a
timer in it and that was cool too. I would set it up to record radio
stations in the middle of the night when they were running commercial
free and not much talking. Then I played the tapes in the car during
the day.
I could use the 725 to edit those tapes down and get a decent mix
tape. I was a music pirate way back then too.
My cars had the JIL AM/FM, 8 track, CB in them so I was ready for most
anything.
It was fun watching people when I played the raw radio tapes tho. They
would be just rocking on enjoying the tunes and the guy would come on
with the weather, predicting snow and it was in July.

BTW BB is not dead, as long as his music survives. He just hasn't
dropped a new record lately. ;-)
I bet they will still be turning up old unreleased recordings forever.
I saw one the other day on alt.binaries,sounds.mp3.blues not that long
ago. It was recorded in a small club, probably on a pocket tape
recorder. The quality was not worth saving but if you are a hard core
fan, it was cool. There was lots of banter with the audience between
numbers.