justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.

A battery charger is a limited use converter. An RV converter will give
the 12 volts directly to the 12v system without a battery.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

===

That would be an inverter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Inverters ultimately have only one job – take in DC current and turn it into AC current. In theory,
this is very easy, because a simple switch and some creative wiring can give you an alternating
square wave operating at the frequency that you flip the switch.

But in reality, square waves are very damaging to nearly all modern electronics that rely on AC
power. So the real question is: How do you take AC power and turn it into something useable? The
answer is, you can filter the square wave using precisely selected inductors and capacitors to
create a sine wave, or at least something close to a sine wave.

===

Modern day sine wave inverters use high frequency switching logic to
approximate a sine wave with only minimal filtering required.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:47:52 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.


I won't get into an argument about nomenclature but I agree everyone
is going to switchers. Silicon is cheaper than copper and you end up
with better voltage regulation along with a very wide mouth.
You really just have to look at the state of wall warts and laptop
chargers and even TVs to see that. It also makes it very handy for
multinational manufacturers The same power supply will work anywhere
100-250v,50 or 60 hz. They just need a different plug.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.

Sort of like buffalo and bison huh? ;-)
I have some Florida Panthers here that would be mountain lions if they
crossed the Georgia line and they were cougars when they caught them
in Texas and sent them here.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.

===

The two are sometimes interchangeably but that's not really correct. A
true converter is designed to provide a steady DC voltage at a level
that approximates a fully charged battery, about 12.6 to 13.2 volts.
In effect, a converter is a DC power supply.

A charger on the other hand, must supply a higher voltage initially,
typically in the range of 14.2 to 14.6 volts, and then taper off as
the battery becomes fully charged.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:12:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.

===

The two are sometimes interchangeably but that's not really correct. A
true converter is designed to provide a steady DC voltage at a level
that approximates a fully charged battery, about 12.6 to 13.2 volts.
In effect, a converter is a DC power supply.

A charger on the other hand, must supply a higher voltage initially,
typically in the range of 14.2 to 14.6 volts, and then taper off as
the battery becomes fully charged.

Make that sometimes used interchangeably...

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:44:43 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.

So the site is wrong? Mine does not have a big transformer as it is not expected to transform 120v
to 240v or vice-versa. The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

Your converter is pretty much like the "power supply" in your PC. In
fact a PC power supply can give you 12v at 20a or more if you have a
big one. (I use one for a bench supply)

Watch the video.

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer

Converters also have only job: convert AC power to DC power. But the word “converter� is very
generic, and you may often see it being used incorrectly. For example, if someone says “DC to AC
converter,� that makes logical sense even though the correct terminology is “DC to AC inverter.� The
same argument can be made by saying “DC to DC converters.� AC to DC converters are also regularly
referred to as power supplies.

Inverters ultimately have only one job – take in DC current and turn it into AC current. In theory,
this is very easy, because a simple switch and some creative wiring can give you an alternating
square wave operating at the frequency that you flip the switch.

But in reality, square waves are very damaging to nearly all modern electronics that rely on AC
power. So the real question is: How do you take AC power and turn it into something useable? The
answer is, you can filter the square wave using precisely selected inductors and capacitors to
create a sine wave, or at least something close to a sine wave.

Oftentimes, inverters will also feature a transformer. This is done so that the AC voltage out can
actually be different from the DC voltage in, depending on the number of coils on the primary and
secondary winding.

Maybe that will help clear it up.



There is also a lot of arguing about nomenclature (converter,
inverter, power supply etc) and I have no opinion. "Inverter" does
imply an A/C output tho whether it is pure sine wave, modified sine
wave or just a square wave. The rest of them seem to be the same
thing.

I disagree with one thing in particular. "Modern electronics" don't
really "use" AC at all. (for the last decade or two) If it has a
switching power supply the first thing that happens is the input is
changed to DC at 1.4x the nominal line voltage (the peak to peak) and
then it is chopped to a high frequency. (I bet they would work as well
on 100-250vdc) This chopped DC is changed to the desired voltage with
a small transformer. The input can be the noisiest, most unstable
thing you throw at it and the supply cleans it right up. The noise
filter on your PC, TV or whatever is to keep the noise IN, not out.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:12:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:59:59 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.

===

The two are sometimes interchangeably but that's not really correct. A
true converter is designed to provide a steady DC voltage at a level
that approximates a fully charged battery, about 12.6 to 13.2 volts.
In effect, a converter is a DC power supply.

A charger on the other hand, must supply a higher voltage initially,
typically in the range of 14.2 to 14.6 volts, and then taper off as
the battery becomes fully charged.

well stated.

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.