On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:08:11 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 15:19:16 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 12:20:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:21:29 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:18:55 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?

Yes it does. When travelling 12 volts is still needed.

So in a jam you could plug the truck in and charge the house battery
enough to get the jacks working and such.

Yes, that's what I did on our last trip.

It might be handy to have a longer cable so you would not have to back
the truck up to the hitch ... but that might just be me.

I just need to get the back of the truck to within about 4' of the pin box, so it's no problem.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:28:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:21 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:15:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a
charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also
need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma
in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been
there.

Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was
only picked when the motor was running?


That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine
off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when
engine is running.


Mine may be the same way, but I've never checked it. I wouldn't leave the truck connected for long
without the engine running.



Hi John, I discovered something about how the GMC Canyon works that I
discussed in another post. Bottom line is the 12vdc used to charge the
RV battery is only there with the truck running *and* either the truck
is in "Tow/Haul" mode or the headlights are on (or both).


I'll have to check. I'm in Tow/Haul mode whenever I pull the trailer, and the headlights turn on
automatically. But I don't know if those are required for the charging circuit to work. It'll give
me something to do once I get the new trim on the strip around the nose cone. Removing caulk is a
bitch. Spent over six hours today working on one side.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...g1/image1.jpeg

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:23:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:11 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does.
Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband
the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was
running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck
supplies the charging voltage.

I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had
two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the
"house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator
charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the
rig was running.

I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have
two batteries.



When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not powered. If power is desired,
a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a Silverado forum after wondering
why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer of my truck didn't tell the
dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug.


The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it
new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes
the factory trailer brake controller.


Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they changed their process since
2009.



I became more curious so, for about the second time since I bought the
Canyon a year ago I got the owner's manual out and did some reading.

The way it works is 12dc (to charge RV battery) is available on pin 4
of the 7 pin trailer connection whenever the truck is running and is put
in the "Tow/Hall" mode. It's also available on pin 4 if running and you
have the headlights on.

I always used the Tow/Haul mode when towing the camper, so it was
charging. The little, lightweight camper I had didn't really need the
truck to be in Tow/Haul but it doesn't hurt to run it that mode even
when not towing. It's fun sometimes because it changes the shift points.

If I'm on the interstate, towing the rig (11,700 lbs) I always run in T/H mode with the cruise
control on. If not on the interstate I'm still using T/H mode, but if the road is hilly I'll shut
off the cruise control.

On 9/29/2018 6:09 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:28:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:21 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:15:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a
charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also
need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma
in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been
there.

Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was
only picked when the motor was running?


That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine
off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when
engine is running.


Mine may be the same way, but I've never checked it. I wouldn't leave the truck connected for long
without the engine running.



Hi John, I discovered something about how the GMC Canyon works that I
discussed in another post. Bottom line is the 12vdc used to charge the
RV battery is only there with the truck running *and* either the truck
is in "Tow/Haul" mode or the headlights are on (or both).


I'll have to check. I'm in Tow/Haul mode whenever I pull the trailer, and the headlights turn on
automatically. But I don't know if those are required for the charging circuit to work. It'll give
me something to do once I get the new trim on the strip around the nose cone. Removing caulk is a
bitch. Spent over six hours today working on one side.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...g1/image1.jpeg



In my Canyon owner's manual it doesn't really say much about it other
than one short paragraph that indicates a non-vehicle battery (like a
house battery in an RV) will charge under either of the two conditions I
described. That's all it says.

Another surprise I found after reading some the manual today. My truck
doesn't have a removable gas cap. To refuel you open the little gas
door and there's an inlet with a permanently mounted flapper valve. You
insert the gas nozzle against the flapper valve causing it to open which
allows the nozzle to go into the fill tube in the truck.

A while back I had tried adding some older gas from a small, portable (2
gal) gas can just to use it up and found it impossible to fill
from the gas can without spilling gas all over the place. I gave up
and assumed you just can't do it.

Today, in the manual, I came across a section that describes a "cap
funnel". It warns to "always use the cap funnel (located in the
vehicle) when adding fuel from a portable gas container, otherwise
spillage will occur."

I never knew this "cap funnel" even existed and have no idea where it is
in the truck. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find it.

On 9/29/2018 6:11 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:23:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:11 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does.
Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband
the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was
running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck
supplies the charging voltage.

I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had
two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the
"house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator
charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the
rig was running.

I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have
two batteries.



When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not powered. If power is desired,
a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a Silverado forum after wondering
why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer of my truck didn't tell the
dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug.


The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it
new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes
the factory trailer brake controller.


Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they changed their process since
2009.



I became more curious so, for about the second time since I bought the
Canyon a year ago I got the owner's manual out and did some reading.

The way it works is 12dc (to charge RV battery) is available on pin 4
of the 7 pin trailer connection whenever the truck is running and is put
in the "Tow/Hall" mode. It's also available on pin 4 if running and you
have the headlights on.

I always used the Tow/Haul mode when towing the camper, so it was
charging. The little, lightweight camper I had didn't really need the
truck to be in Tow/Haul but it doesn't hurt to run it that mode even
when not towing. It's fun sometimes because it changes the shift points.

If I'm on the interstate, towing the rig (11,700 lbs) I always run in T/H mode with the cruise
control on. If not on the interstate I'm still using T/H mode, but if the road is hilly I'll shut
off the cruise control.


Your truck may not operate the same way. I think yours is a little
older than mine, a diesel and a full sized pickup.

The designers and engineers can't leave good enough alone sometimes.
They are always dreaming up new things to add, just to keep life
interesting. In my business I called it the "not invented here" syndrome.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:54:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 6:09 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:28:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:21 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:15:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a
charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also
need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma
in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been
there.

Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was
only picked when the motor was running?


That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine
off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when
engine is running.


Mine may be the same way, but I've never checked it. I wouldn't leave the truck connected for long
without the engine running.



Hi John, I discovered something about how the GMC Canyon works that I
discussed in another post. Bottom line is the 12vdc used to charge the
RV battery is only there with the truck running *and* either the truck
is in "Tow/Haul" mode or the headlights are on (or both).


I'll have to check. I'm in Tow/Haul mode whenever I pull the trailer, and the headlights turn on
automatically. But I don't know if those are required for the charging circuit to work. It'll give
me something to do once I get the new trim on the strip around the nose cone. Removing caulk is a
bitch. Spent over six hours today working on one side.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...g1/image1.jpeg



In my Canyon owner's manual it doesn't really say much about it other
than one short paragraph that indicates a non-vehicle battery (like a
house battery in an RV) will charge under either of the two conditions I
described. That's all it says.

Another surprise I found after reading some the manual today. My truck
doesn't have a removable gas cap. To refuel you open the little gas
door and there's an inlet with a permanently mounted flapper valve. You
insert the gas nozzle against the flapper valve causing it to open which
allows the nozzle to go into the fill tube in the truck.

A while back I had tried adding some older gas from a small, portable (2
gal) gas can just to use it up and found it impossible to fill
from the gas can without spilling gas all over the place. I gave up
and assumed you just can't do it.

Today, in the manual, I came across a section that describes a "cap
funnel". It warns to "always use the cap funnel (located in the
vehicle) when adding fuel from a portable gas container, otherwise
spillage will occur."

I never knew this "cap funnel" even existed and have no idea where it is
in the truck. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find it.



Stop, please. You'll have me digging my manual(s) out. I've got two since it's a diesel.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:58:38 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 6:11 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:23:51 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:11 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does.
Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband
the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was
running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck
supplies the charging voltage.

I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had
two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the
"house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator
charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the
rig was running.

I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have
two batteries.



When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not powered. If power is desired,
a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a Silverado forum after wondering
why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer of my truck didn't tell the
dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug.


The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it
new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes
the factory trailer brake controller.


Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they changed their process since
2009.



I became more curious so, for about the second time since I bought the
Canyon a year ago I got the owner's manual out and did some reading.

The way it works is 12dc (to charge RV battery) is available on pin 4
of the 7 pin trailer connection whenever the truck is running and is put
in the "Tow/Hall" mode. It's also available on pin 4 if running and you
have the headlights on.

I always used the Tow/Haul mode when towing the camper, so it was
charging. The little, lightweight camper I had didn't really need the
truck to be in Tow/Haul but it doesn't hurt to run it that mode even
when not towing. It's fun sometimes because it changes the shift points.

If I'm on the interstate, towing the rig (11,700 lbs) I always run in T/H mode with the cruise
control on. If not on the interstate I'm still using T/H mode, but if the road is hilly I'll shut
off the cruise control.


Your truck may not operate the same way. I think yours is a little
older than mine, a diesel and a full sized pickup.

The designers and engineers can't leave good enough alone sometimes.
They are always dreaming up new things to add, just to keep life
interesting. In my business I called it the "not invented here" syndrome.

Mine's a 2009. I think, but I'm not sure, that the charging pin #'s may be the same. I'll check it
out tomorrow, if I think of it.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:54:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Another surprise I found after reading some the manual today. My truck
doesn't have a removable gas cap. To refuel you open the little gas
door and there's an inlet with a permanently mounted flapper valve. You
insert the gas nozzle against the flapper valve causing it to open which
allows the nozzle to go into the fill tube in the truck.

A while back I had tried adding some older gas from a small, portable (2
gal) gas can just to use it up and found it impossible to fill
from the gas can without spilling gas all over the place. I gave up
and assumed you just can't do it.

Today, in the manual, I came across a section that describes a "cap
funnel". It warns to "always use the cap funnel (located in the
vehicle) when adding fuel from a portable gas container, otherwise
spillage will occur."

I never knew this "cap funnel" even existed and have no idea where it is
in the truck. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find it.




Ah "progress". I am guessing that was done to avoid that "loose gas
cap" throwing a code thing.
It will be fine until the seal on that flapper fails and you find out
you have to replace the whole tank or something. I would be careful
that you don't damage the seal and find out.
I have seen that on other new cars tho. Some don't even have a door
over it, just a port you poke the nozzle in.
This is the type of thing you notice when you are filling 10 gas cans
every 6-7 weeks ;-)
Usually several cars come and go while I am there. I get all sorts of
questions "do you have a lawn service", "is there a hurricane coming",
"are you a prepper".
Every once in a while some old redneck will ask me what kind of boat I
have.

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a
charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also
need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma
in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been
there.

Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was
only picked when the motor was running?


It monitors the voltage input and picks when either side is at 13.5V. The
problem is in the unpicked state the circuit draws 15ma, Blue Sky ACR, and
will run down the battery if either lead is direct connected to the
battery. My truck would not start after a week and a half and the boat
would run down the batteries even with the dual batt switch off. Put a
switch in the ground line on both truck and boat.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a
charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also
need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma
in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been
there.

Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was
only picked when the motor was running?


That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine
off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when
engine is running.




My 2004 Chevy the pin is hot all the time.