John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does.
Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband
the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was
running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck
supplies the charging voltage.

I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had
two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the
"house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator
charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the
rig was running.

I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have
two batteries.



When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not
powered. If power is desired,
a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a
Silverado forum after wondering
why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer
of my truck didn't tell the
dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug.


The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it
new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes
the factory trailer brake controller.


Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they
changed their process since
2009.


They have a separate 40amp fuse in the under hood box.

John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 11:30:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 06:32:25 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 22:01:37 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:11:39 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The item I just installed is a converter. It converts 12vdc to 120vac.

===

That would be an inverter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_inverter

From that site: "This article needs additional citations for
verification. Please help improve this
article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may
be challenged and removed.
(October 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)"

I trust the sites I quoted above more.

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-an...vs-transformer

===

Unless your device can convert 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC, and I don't
think it does, it is definitely not an inverter or inverter/charger.

Inverter/chargers are much heavier and more expensive. I've got two
on the boat (one for backup), and one at home that I use as a heavy
duty UPS for my computer equipment.

Primary boat inverter/charger:

https://www.amazon.com/Magnum-MS2812-2800W-Inverter-Charger/dp/B002MWAATK

http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/product-inverter/2800w-pure-sine-inverter-charger-ms-series

I never said it was an inverter. That was Bill. And, I misread your
wikipedia site this am. It says,
"... inverter, is an electronic device or circuitry that changes direct
current (DC) to alternating
current (AC), which is what I've been saying all along.

I bought and installed a CONVERTER, which converts 120vac to 12vdc. And,
the DC it puts out also
charges the battery.


Sorry, me bad.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/29/2018 3:11 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does.
Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband
the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was
running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck
supplies the charging voltage.

I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had
two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the
"house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator
charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the
rig was running.

I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have
two batteries.



When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not
powered. If power is desired,
a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a
Silverado forum after wondering
why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer
of my truck didn't tell the
dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug.


The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it
new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes
the factory trailer brake controller.


Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they
changed their process since
2009.



I became more curious so, for about the second time since I bought the
Canyon a year ago I got the owner's manual out and did some reading.

The way it works is 12dc (to charge RV battery) is available on pin 4
of the 7 pin trailer connection whenever the truck is running and is put
in the "Tow/Hall" mode. It's also available on pin 4 if running and you
have the headlights on.

I always used the Tow/Haul mode when towing the camper, so it was
charging. The little, lightweight camper I had didn't really need the
truck to be in Tow/Haul but it doesn't hurt to run it that mode even
when not towing. It's fun sometimes because it changes the shift points.


Seems as if tow/haul keeps it out of Overdrive/top gear I think. Also
engages the engine brake.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/29/2018 6:09 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:28:12 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:21 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 14:15:03 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 16:40:05 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Depends if you hook up to the truck charge line. If you do, you need a
charge relay, so you do not run down the truck battery when parked. Also
need a disconnect for the charge relay if in the truck. Draws about 15 ma
in off position. After a couple weeks truck battery is dead. Been
there.

Why wouldn't the relay be connected to the ignition circuit so it was
only picked when the motor was running?


That's how it works on my truck. Lights, etc. will all work with engine
off but the pin supplying power to charge RV battery is only hot when
engine is running.


Mine may be the same way, but I've never checked it. I wouldn't leave
the truck connected for long
without the engine running.



Hi John, I discovered something about how the GMC Canyon works that I
discussed in another post. Bottom line is the 12vdc used to charge the
RV battery is only there with the truck running *and* either the truck
is in "Tow/Haul" mode or the headlights are on (or both).


I'll have to check. I'm in Tow/Haul mode whenever I pull the trailer,
and the headlights turn on
automatically. But I don't know if those are required for the charging
circuit to work. It'll give
me something to do once I get the new trim on the strip around the nose
cone. Removing caulk is a
bitch. Spent over six hours today working on one side.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...g1/image1.jpeg



In my Canyon owner's manual it doesn't really say much about it other
than one short paragraph that indicates a non-vehicle battery (like a
house battery in an RV) will charge under either of the two conditions I
described. That's all it says.

Another surprise I found after reading some the manual today. My truck
doesn't have a removable gas cap. To refuel you open the little gas
door and there's an inlet with a permanently mounted flapper valve. You
insert the gas nozzle against the flapper valve causing it to open which
allows the nozzle to go into the fill tube in the truck.

A while back I had tried adding some older gas from a small, portable (2
gal) gas can just to use it up and found it impossible to fill
from the gas can without spilling gas all over the place. I gave up
and assumed you just can't do it.

Today, in the manual, I came across a section that describes a "cap
funnel". It warns to "always use the cap funnel (located in the
vehicle) when adding fuel from a portable gas container, otherwise
spillage will occur."

I never knew this "cap funnel" even existed and have no idea where it is
in the truck. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find it.






The Ford Escape I rented in Kauai had that feature. I thought is great.

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 21:55:00 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:54:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Another surprise I found after reading some the manual today. My truck
doesn't have a removable gas cap. To refuel you open the little gas
door and there's an inlet with a permanently mounted flapper valve. You
insert the gas nozzle against the flapper valve causing it to open which
allows the nozzle to go into the fill tube in the truck.

A while back I had tried adding some older gas from a small, portable (2
gal) gas can just to use it up and found it impossible to fill
from the gas can without spilling gas all over the place. I gave up
and assumed you just can't do it.

Today, in the manual, I came across a section that describes a "cap
funnel". It warns to "always use the cap funnel (located in the
vehicle) when adding fuel from a portable gas container, otherwise
spillage will occur."

I never knew this "cap funnel" even existed and have no idea where it is
in the truck. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find it.




Ah "progress". I am guessing that was done to avoid that "loose gas
cap" throwing a code thing.
It will be fine until the seal on that flapper fails and you find out
you have to replace the whole tank or something. I would be careful
that you don't damage the seal and find out.
I have seen that on other new cars tho. Some don't even have a door
over it, just a port you poke the nozzle in.
This is the type of thing you notice when you are filling 10 gas cans
every 6-7 weeks ;-)
Usually several cars come and go while I am there. I get all sorts of
questions "do you have a lawn service", "is there a hurricane coming",
"are you a prepper".
Every once in a while some old redneck will ask me what kind of boat I
have.

===

A1 Fuel will deliver to your house via truck if you are buying 100
gallons or more. They deliver all over SWFL, prices generally decent,
and are good folks.

A1 Fuel Service Inc
Phone: (239) 246-4777
Email:

Greg Salvi
owner
Phone | (239) 246-4777
Fax | (239) 642-7619

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 22:29:29 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 21:55:00 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:54:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Another surprise I found after reading some the manual today. My truck
doesn't have a removable gas cap. To refuel you open the little gas
door and there's an inlet with a permanently mounted flapper valve. You
insert the gas nozzle against the flapper valve causing it to open which
allows the nozzle to go into the fill tube in the truck.

A while back I had tried adding some older gas from a small, portable (2
gal) gas can just to use it up and found it impossible to fill
from the gas can without spilling gas all over the place. I gave up
and assumed you just can't do it.

Today, in the manual, I came across a section that describes a "cap
funnel". It warns to "always use the cap funnel (located in the
vehicle) when adding fuel from a portable gas container, otherwise
spillage will occur."

I never knew this "cap funnel" even existed and have no idea where it is
in the truck. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find it.




Ah "progress". I am guessing that was done to avoid that "loose gas
cap" throwing a code thing.
It will be fine until the seal on that flapper fails and you find out
you have to replace the whole tank or something. I would be careful
that you don't damage the seal and find out.
I have seen that on other new cars tho. Some don't even have a door
over it, just a port you poke the nozzle in.
This is the type of thing you notice when you are filling 10 gas cans
every 6-7 weeks ;-)
Usually several cars come and go while I am there. I get all sorts of
questions "do you have a lawn service", "is there a hurricane coming",
"are you a prepper".
Every once in a while some old redneck will ask me what kind of boat I
have.

===

A1 Fuel will deliver to your house via truck if you are buying 100
gallons or more. They deliver all over SWFL, prices generally decent,
and are good folks.

A1 Fuel Service Inc
Phone: (239) 246-4777
Email:

Greg Salvi
owner
Phone | (239) 246-4777
Fax | (239) 642-7619

Where would I put 100 gallons of gas? It is also pretty hard to beat
the price at Shell with a rewards card and the 25% off gift cards from
publix. This is right up on 41 so the drive home is not that scary,
even with 3 or 4 propane bottles and 15 gallons of chlorine. If
someone hits me I am going to be running so everyone, try to keep up.

On 9/29/2018 9:55 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:54:50 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Another surprise I found after reading some the manual today. My truck
doesn't have a removable gas cap. To refuel you open the little gas
door and there's an inlet with a permanently mounted flapper valve. You
insert the gas nozzle against the flapper valve causing it to open which
allows the nozzle to go into the fill tube in the truck.

A while back I had tried adding some older gas from a small, portable (2
gal) gas can just to use it up and found it impossible to fill
from the gas can without spilling gas all over the place. I gave up
and assumed you just can't do it.

Today, in the manual, I came across a section that describes a "cap
funnel". It warns to "always use the cap funnel (located in the
vehicle) when adding fuel from a portable gas container, otherwise
spillage will occur."

I never knew this "cap funnel" even existed and have no idea where it is
in the truck. Tomorrow I'll see if I can find it.




Ah "progress". I am guessing that was done to avoid that "loose gas
cap" throwing a code thing.
It will be fine until the seal on that flapper fails and you find out
you have to replace the whole tank or something. I would be careful
that you don't damage the seal and find out.
I have seen that on other new cars tho. Some don't even have a door
over it, just a port you poke the nozzle in.
This is the type of thing you notice when you are filling 10 gas cans
every 6-7 weeks ;-)
Usually several cars come and go while I am there. I get all sorts of
questions "do you have a lawn service", "is there a hurricane coming",
"are you a prepper".
Every once in a while some old redneck will ask me what kind of boat I
have.



I've taken a good look at the "flapper" on the gas inlet. There's no
way it forms a seal. I think the actual seal is further down in the
gas refill line. A gas station nozzle is probably long enough and is
shaped to open whatever the seal is. A portable gas can's plastic
nozzle isn't so it results in gas filling up the space between the
flapper and whatever the actual seal is with resulting spillage.

I'll bet when I find this "cap funnel" it will be shaped more like
a gas station pump nozzle.

On 9/29/2018 10:17 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/29/2018 3:11 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does.
Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband
the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was
running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck
supplies the charging voltage.

I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had
two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the
"house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator
charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the
rig was running.

I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have
two batteries.



When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not
powered. If power is desired,
a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a
Silverado forum after wondering
why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer
of my truck didn't tell the
dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug.


The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it
new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes
the factory trailer brake controller.


Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they
changed their process since
2009.



I became more curious so, for about the second time since I bought the
Canyon a year ago I got the owner's manual out and did some reading.

The way it works is 12dc (to charge RV battery) is available on pin 4
of the 7 pin trailer connection whenever the truck is running and is put
in the "Tow/Hall" mode. It's also available on pin 4 if running and you
have the headlights on.

I always used the Tow/Haul mode when towing the camper, so it was
charging. The little, lightweight camper I had didn't really need the
truck to be in Tow/Haul but it doesn't hurt to run it that mode even
when not towing. It's fun sometimes because it changes the shift points.


Seems as if tow/haul keeps it out of Overdrive/top gear I think. Also
engages the engine brake.


Tow/Haul seems to do more than that. All the shift points are different
as are the downshifts. The Canyon has an 8 speed transmission. I can
count them as they go from 1st to second and up to six. I don't think
it uses 7 and 8 unless you are at highway speeds. I'll have to pay
more attention to the tachometer next time I am on the highway.

On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 02:17:17 -0000 (UTC), Bill wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does.
Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband
the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was
running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck
supplies the charging voltage.

I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had
two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the
"house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator
charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the
rig was running.

I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have
two batteries.



When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not
powered. If power is desired,
a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a
Silverado forum after wondering
why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer
of my truck didn't tell the
dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug.


The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it
new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes
the factory trailer brake controller.


Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they
changed their process since
2009.


They have a separate 40amp fuse in the under hood box.

Mine has the fuse now, but it didn't when I bought it. Don't remember the amps.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/29/2018 10:17 PM, Bill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 9/29/2018 3:11 PM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 07:11:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 6:30 AM, John H. wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:30:11 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 9/29/2018 3:18 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2018 03:13:55 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/28/2018 8:59 PM, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:
On 9/28/2018 8:44 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 17:31:26 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 21:19:50 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 20:08:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:


9:03 AMJohn H
- show quoted text -
Good to see you understood his whine. I'm still not sure what he means
by 'same bluegrass festival
on different sites'. Maybe because the music is similar at each festival?

It gets to where the music takes second place to seeing and having fun
with good friends.

.......

At least you?re getting fresh air, exercise, and sunshine.
Btw, I rode my Guzzi 400 mi this week...so far. Might get another 200
mi in before Monday.

I think I'll take mine for a ride tomorrow. I finished installing the new
converter, and now I'm
tired. Climbing in and out of that thing is a bitch.


Dc to AC is an Inverter.

Agreed. My converter converts 120vac to 12vdc.


The one I replaced in my Palomino camper did that also was called an
inverter.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Converter_vs_Inverter

Maybe they were just calling it the wrong name.

Weigh it ;-)
If it does not have a big transformer in it is an inverter.
Inverters turn whatever you feed them into a high frequency square
wave (20kz or more) them get the voltage they want with a tiny little
transformer.
That can be up or down.


Switching power supply.

Problem is, some converters are now based on switching power supplies.
Most of the small, inexpensive, 3 stage battery chargers/maintainers use
them.




I'm having trouble distinguishing between converter and battery
charger.



For RV purposes, I think of it this way:

If you are at a campsite or whatever and connected to shore power
the converter is charging your house battery but is also supplying
12vdc to all your lights and other 12vdc devices. I suppose you
could say they are really all running off the house battery and
the converter is simultaneously charging it. But, you could remove
the house battery and the lights will still work.

Does the truck charge the house battery when it is running? If not,
why not?


Yes, I think it does.. . Come to think of it I am sure it does.
Even on the little travel trailer I just gave to my daughter and husband
the "house" battery on the trailer was being charged when my truck was
running. One of the pins on the 7 pin trailer plug on the truck
supplies the charging voltage.

I had a class C RV ... the previously mentioned Chinook Glacier. It had
two batteries ... one was the "engine" battery and the other being the
"house" battery. It had a sensing circuit that directed the alternator
charging output to the battery that had the lowest voltage whenever the
rig was running.

I suspect something like that is also used in diesel pickups that have
two batteries.



When new, the pin which enables charging of the trailer battery is not
powered. If power is desired,
a fuse must be inserted in the truck fuse box. I learned this on a
Silverado forum after wondering
why my trailer battery wasn't charging. Seems like the original buyer
of my truck didn't tell the
dealer he wanted battery charging at the trailer plug.


The charging pin on the Canyon I have was "hot" from the day I bought it
new. Maybe it's because it came with the "towing package" that includes
the factory trailer brake controller.


Mine had all the towing stuff, but the pin was still not hot. Maybe they
changed their process since
2009.



I became more curious so, for about the second time since I bought the
Canyon a year ago I got the owner's manual out and did some reading.

The way it works is 12dc (to charge RV battery) is available on pin 4
of the 7 pin trailer connection whenever the truck is running and is put
in the "Tow/Hall" mode. It's also available on pin 4 if running and you
have the headlights on.

I always used the Tow/Haul mode when towing the camper, so it was
charging. The little, lightweight camper I had didn't really need the
truck to be in Tow/Haul but it doesn't hurt to run it that mode even
when not towing. It's fun sometimes because it changes the shift points.


Seems as if tow/haul keeps it out of Overdrive/top gear I think. Also
engages the engine brake.


Tow/Haul seems to do more than that. All the shift points are different
as are the downshifts. The Canyon has an 8 speed transmission. I can
count them as they go from 1st to second and up to six. I don't think
it uses 7 and 8 unless you are at highway speeds. I'll have to pay
more attention to the tachometer next time I am on the highway.




My truck is a 2004 and I think 6 speed. Looking at a new GMC SLT Duramax.
Wife says seats are getting uncomfortable, and a few other little
problems. Engine is still great. 180k miles.