Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:32:10 -0400, wrote:

it really doesn't matter if we
throw a few Hummers into the volcano and put a solar panel on our
roof.

===

I agree but it's probably a step in the right direction. If nothing
else, it helps change our mindset and nudges technology along in the
right direction. Look at what's happening with electric cars. In
less than 10 years they have advanced from geek toys to very
respectable vehicles that will blow the doors off a 'vette at the drag
strip.


But do they actually save energy? I drive a 2014 Volt around town. About
2 miles per kilowatt hour. So if I charge in the middle of the night when
I get a really time of use rate of $0.123 a KWh. Remember this is
California with very high utility rates, $0.423 peak rate KWh. Comes out
to a buck a gallon for gas. Nice for me, thank the others for the subsidy.
I get about 33 mpg on gas. Lots of non hybrids get 45-50 mpg. Am I
really saving natural resources? Like a Tesla that states zero emissions
vehicle. How did that electricity get generated to charge the car, plus
all the rare earths mined to make the battery? I do have solar on the
roof. Still a wash to me if it will pay for itself. California,
probably. We have high electric rates and they keep climbing. East coast
with 4 moths of snow, may not be financial prudent without subsidized
costs. And will it save energy overall?

justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 10/10/18 5:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/10/2018 12:44 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/10/18 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:08:51 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

...being slammed by a result of global warming, a concept denied by the
ignorant, intellectually lazy, coal baron wannabe in the White House.

Yeah, we never had hurricanes before 1/20/2017, That *******!


No surprise you and your fellow Trumpsters are ignoring what the
climate scientists are saying. Oh, wait...because of your high
school diploma, coast guard training, career as an IBM whatever you
did, and local building inspector, you know more than they do. I get
it. And, of course, there is your undeniable expertise on mental
illnesses.


I don't think anyone questions climate change. It has changed many,
many times since the birth of planet Earth.

The question is how much have we contributed to the current cycle of
global warming. The bigger question is what makes some think we can do
anything about it.



The overwhelming majority of scientists who know about climate change
say we can slow down global warming, if not reverse it. Slowing it down
is important.


Where is it written?

What kind of “Scientists�? Hard science or liberal Arts degrees?

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:43:37 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 10/10/18 5:33 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 21:16:33 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/10/18 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:08:51 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

...being slammed by a result of global warming, a concept denied by the
ignorant, intellectually lazy, coal baron wannabe in the White House.

Yeah, we never had hurricanes before 1/20/2017, That *******!


No surprise you and your fellow Trumpsters are ignoring what the climate
scientists are saying. Oh, wait...because of your high school diploma,
coast guard training, career as an IBM whatever you did, and local
building inspector, you know more than they do. I get it. And, of
course, there is your undeniable expertise on mental illnesses.


You have degrees in English. That’s it. Not meteorology, not mental
health, not science. Why do you think you are qualified to comment on
these subjects?

Harry is incapable of disputing the things I say so he dismisses me
personally flaunting a mediocre degree from a tertiary university 50
years ago.


As I have told you many times, I have no interest in debating with the
posters in rec.boats. Whatever you may think of my college degrees, at
least I have them.

So you are just a troll throwing **** into the group with no intent on
discussing or even justifying what you wrote ... or more correctly
pasted from somewhere else.
You are certainly not demonstrating that you degree gave you any
writing skills or really any comprehension of what you paste in.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:41:28 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 10/10/18 5:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/10/2018 12:44 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/10/18 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:08:51 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

...being slammed by a result of global warming, a concept denied by the
ignorant, intellectually lazy, coal baron wannabe in the White House.

Yeah, we never had hurricanes before 1/20/2017, That *******!


No surprise you and your fellow Trumpsters are ignoring what the
climate scientists are saying. Oh, wait...because of your high
schoolÂ* diploma, coast guard training, career as an IBM whatever you
did, and local building inspector, you know more than they do. I get
it.Â* And, of course, there is yourÂ* undeniable expertise on mental
illnesses.


I don't think anyone questions climate change.Â* It has changed many,
many times since the birth of planet Earth.

The question is how much have we contributed to the current cycle of
global warming.Â* The bigger question is what makes some thinkÂ* we can do
anything about it.



The overwhelming majority of scientists who know about climate change
say we can slow down global warming, if not reverse it. Slowing it down
is important.

I agree there are plenty of climate scientists why think man is
contributing to global warming. The number who actually believe we can
do anything about it seems to track the grants they get from
alternative energy companies and politicians. They like working on
plans but nobody seems to have a plan about how we will get the
Chinese to stop burning coal or how we stop people from clearing
virgin forests and grasslands for agriculture.
It certainly is not that Al Gore carbon credit scam.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:49:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:32:10 -0400, wrote:

it really doesn't matter if we
throw a few Hummers into the volcano and put a solar panel on our
roof.

===

I agree but it's probably a step in the right direction. If nothing
else, it helps change our mindset and nudges technology along in the
right direction. Look at what's happening with electric cars. In
less than 10 years they have advanced from geek toys to very
respectable vehicles that will blow the doors off a 'vette at the drag
strip.

If you are getting the electricity from a coal fired plant, you
haven't gained anything. The gain is even questionable with gas fired
plants. For the most part, the economic viability is back loaded on
the tax payer in a fairly regressive manner. They have moved from
being souped up golf carts for geeks to rich people's toys with the
subsidies being paid by people who can't afford one. Solar power is
much the same.
People rich enough to put $40,000-50,000 on their roof get subsidized
by those who aren't.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 01:34:36 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
On 10/10/18 5:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/10/2018 12:44 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/10/18 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:08:51 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

...being slammed by a result of global warming, a concept denied by the
ignorant, intellectually lazy, coal baron wannabe in the White House.

Yeah, we never had hurricanes before 1/20/2017, That *******!


No surprise you and your fellow Trumpsters are ignoring what the
climate scientists are saying. Oh, wait...because of your high
school diploma, coast guard training, career as an IBM whatever you
did, and local building inspector, you know more than they do. I get
it. And, of course, there is your undeniable expertise on mental
illnesses.


I don't think anyone questions climate change. It has changed many,
many times since the birth of planet Earth.

The question is how much have we contributed to the current cycle of
global warming. The bigger question is what makes some think we can do
anything about it.



The overwhelming majority of scientists who know about climate change
say we can slow down global warming, if not reverse it. Slowing it down
is important.


Where is it written?

What kind of “Scientists�? Hard science or liberal Arts degrees?

That is true, when they show us a list of the "scientists" who sign
these things, very few are climatologists.

On 10/10/2018 8:43 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/10/18 5:33 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 21:16:33 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/10/18 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:08:51 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

...being slammed by a result of global warming, a concept denied
by the
ignorant, intellectually lazy, coal baron wannabe in the White House.

Yeah, we never had hurricanes before 1/20/2017, That *******!


No surprise you and your fellow Trumpsters are ignoring what the
climate
scientists are saying. Oh, wait...because of your highÂ* school
diploma,
coast guard training, career as an IBM whatever youÂ* did, and local
building inspector, you know more than they do. I get it.Â* And, of
course, there is yourÂ* undeniable expertise on mentalÂ* illnesses.


You have degrees in English.Â*Â* That’s it.Â*Â* Not meteorology, not mental
health, not science.Â*Â* Why do you think you are qualified to comment on
these subjects?

Harry is incapable of disputing the things I say so he dismisses me
personally flaunting a mediocre degree from a tertiary university 50
years ago.


As I have told you many times, I have no interest in debating with the
posters in rec.boats. Whatever you may think of my college degrees, at
least I have them.


Harry, I can sorta understand where you are coming from. If your level
of experience and knowledge is pretty much limited to a college degree
or two in English and "critical thinking" concepts, it's all you can
crow about (which you do often). IMO, you vastly overestimate the
value of a college degree.

I actually feel badly for new college graduates who often enter the
workforce thinking they are automatically "entitled" to a high
paying position in their first job with student loans to pay off
over the next 10 to 20 years.

Some of us also have hard won college degrees plus a lifetime of
schooling, military service, training, teaching, running businesses and
other worthwhile, mind expanding experiences. To imply that your college
degrees somehow makes you "better" or "smarter" than others while
downplaying the importance of other educational experiences only goes to
demonstrate an extremely narrow, elitist mindset or maybe even someone
who is somewhat embarrassed by their own limited relative education.

I can honestly say that spending almost 8 years of my life (part-time)
pursuing a degree was worthwhile but it pales in comparison to what I
learned and experienced in other endeavors and experiences. If I had
to do it all over again but had to choose between college and what
I've experienced and learned outside of college, I'd skip the college gig.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 19:45:44 -0400, Alex wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/10/18 9:37 AM, justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
...being slammed by a result of global warming, a concept denied by the
ignorant, intellectually lazy, coal baron wannabe in the White House.


Why are you so up tight, Fat Harry?


I have grandkids. I'd like them to have a decent world in which to
live. Obviously, you don't give a **** about the sort of world we're
leaving to your non-existent next generation.

You could pay your taxes. That would be a good start.

Obviously, he doesn't give a **** about the sort of world he's leaving to his estranged next
generation.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:40:35 -0700 (PDT), True North wrote:

Ditzy Dan Kruger blathers on and on...

True North wrote:*
The John flushes his head again.....*
*
"~~Snerk~~!*
I agree wholeheartedly and unequivocally with this post!*
*
Right, Don?"*
*
*
You wouldn't know right from write..or even White!*
Why do y'all keep copying my lines?*

"That was my line. *You stole it, dummy."

You couldn't come up with a line like that if you had a month of Sunday's to try.*

Come on Don. You really should ask Harry for some punctuation lessons.

Let's start with the difference between 'possessive' and 'plural'.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 19:49:40 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:27:05 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/10/2018 1:58 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 10/10/18 1:54 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:44:43 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

On 10/10/18 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 09:08:51 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

...being slammed by a result of global warming, a concept denied by
the
ignorant, intellectually lazy, coal baron wannabe in the White House.

Yeah, we never had hurricanes before 1/20/2017, That *******!


No surprise you and your fellow Trumpsters are ignoring what the climate
scientists are saying.

Perhaps we should be looking at what the economists and political
science people are saying. There are 4-5 billion people in the 3d
world who all want electricity, heat in the winter, A/C in the summer
and a car. No matter what we do, increased energy demand is coming.
Global warming is caused by population growth and upward mobility.
Do you think either will stop?
Of course it might.
I worry a lot more about nuclear winter than I do global warming.


As you are not a climate scientist and have absolutely no serious
scientific credentials in that field or any other scientific field, I'll
believe the climate scientists and other scientists. And what the latter
are doing includes trying to force us to develop and implement fossil
fuel alternatives and to cut back on the use of fossil fuels.


You are not a climate scientist either and have absolutely no
serious scientific credentials in that field. There are many
scientist *with* the proper credentials who argue that climate
change is a naturally occurring phenomena and mankind, as important
as we may thing we are, has very little to do with it.

As non-scientists we all have the right to believe what makes
logical sense to us.

You just happen to believe anything anybody tells you if it fits
with your general political views.

===

There is clear and convincing evidence that the planet is indeed
getting warmer. There is also a great deal of evidence that warm
cycles have occurred many times in the past, as well as cold cycles,
aka, the ice age. There have been serious scientific attempts,
through the study of core samples in ancient ice, to see if past
warming and cooling episodes correlated to levels of atmospheric
carbon dioxide. Apparently there is some evidence for that also. The
jury is still out on what caused these past fluctuations in CO2 but
it's fairly certain that it wasn't caused by the burning of fossil
fuels. There's a lot that is still unknown, that much is for sure.
Reducing our dependence on fossil fuels for energy production seems
like a good long term plan for many reasons however. Europe is way
ahead of us in harnessing wind power, and we are somewhat behind in
exploiting solar energy. But there are some encouraging signs that
we're making progress.

For anyone who doubts that the planet is getting warmer, I'd encourage
them to watch a documentary on Netflix called "Chasing Ice". It is
very well done, and watching huge glaciers disappear before your eyes
on time lapse photography will make a believer out of you. It is
totally apolitical and non-judgemental.

I agree with everything you said there. Don't even need a 'snerk'!

The problem is that Democrats need 'global warming' as another round in their ammo pile.