On 11/1/18 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 06:48:50 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/31/18 8:04 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:58:56 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

The big difference, of course, is that Ovbamna was trying to help the
immigrants, while Trump is trying to **** them over.

I am really surprised you are so anxious to bring all of these
immigrants in because I know them and they are certainly a threat to
those fat, lazy union workers you hold so dear. I Latino crew will out
work your anglos all day long, work for less and be ready to work a
job without 4 or 5 years of carrying a journeyman's tools and fetching
his coffee.


Just because you never had the skills to hold down a union construction
job in the skilled trades in complex commercial construction is no
reason to knock those who do. Your disdain for formal training in
just about every field is laughable. If you never need surgery, I
suggest you find a corpsman instead of a surgeon.

You are simply full of ****. I would go up against a journeyman
electrician any day of the week and know a hell of a lot more than
most. I can also keep up with plumbers.
The point is they have dumbed down the skill necessary to do most
trades with newer materials and methods to the point that a fairly
recent immigrant will be working in a trade and be as effective as
anyone in months, not years.
That is particularly true in residential but they now allow Romex in
most light commercial too. The same is true of "plastic" plumbing.

Union apprenticeship programs are more about slowing down people
coming into the trade than in the training necessary to actually do
the job. We are not packing terra cotta drain pipe with oakum and
pouring the joints full of lead. They prime the pipe, put some PVC
cement on the pipe and paste it together. The pressure side is going
to be pex tubing as often as not. It takes about an hour to get
certified on the termination method. (an expanded sleeve that snaps
over the joint). Then you just roll it out, strap it and hook it up.
Electricians are not threading Rigid Metal Pipe, they are dragging
Romex around. They don't even staple it anymore, they use tywraps and
the plastic boxes have push in internal clamps.
I am sure that if you went through the IBEW apprenticeship program
some old fart would spend 4 years telling you how they used to do
things back in the day but none of it is any more relevant than
teaching a tire changer how to shoe a horse.



I know a woman who is an IBEW journeyman out in San Francisco who is the
chief "trade" operator at a large industrial power plant. You couldn't
open her car door in terms of skill and knowledge. Couple of my union
buddies build nuclear and chemical plant plumbing. They might let you
refill the teepee rolls in the head.

On 11/1/18 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 07:37:35 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/31/18 11:29 PM, Bill wrote:
justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
POTUS Pig Vomit wants to kill the 14th Amendment, the one that
says:"???Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United
States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the
United States and of the State wherein they reside."You just know that
Orange Asshole has never read the Constitution and if he does ever read
it, he won't understand it.

It's hard to believe someone who speaks like you do, ever went to
college?

I guess that is what you get in a remote Midwest college.


It is humorous to see two of rec.boats' right-wingers with the worst
skills in reading comprehension, spelling, and grammar comment
negatively on the abilities of others in those same areas.

This is from a guy who brags about having his spell checker turned off
and ends up spelling like a plumber.


Oh, really? I rarely make a spelling error. I admit to being a lousy
typist, but I don't use speeeelczecher.

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 11/1/18 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 06:48:50 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/31/18 8:04 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:58:56 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

The big difference, of course, is that Ovbamna was trying to help the
immigrants, while Trump is trying to **** them over.

I am really surprised you are so anxious to bring all of these
immigrants in because I know them and they are certainly a threat to
those fat, lazy union workers you hold so dear. I Latino crew will out
work your anglos all day long, work for less and be ready to work a
job without 4 or 5 years of carrying a journeyman's tools and fetching
his coffee.


Just because you never had the skills to hold down a union construction
job in the skilled trades in complex commercial construction is no
reason to knock those who do. Your disdain for formal training in
just about every field is laughable. If you never need surgery, I
suggest you find a corpsman instead of a surgeon.

You are simply full of ****. I would go up against a journeyman
electrician any day of the week and know a hell of a lot more than
most. I can also keep up with plumbers.
The point is they have dumbed down the skill necessary to do most
trades with newer materials and methods to the point that a fairly
recent immigrant will be working in a trade and be as effective as
anyone in months, not years.
That is particularly true in residential but they now allow Romex in
most light commercial too. The same is true of "plastic" plumbing.

Union apprenticeship programs are more about slowing down people
coming into the trade than in the training necessary to actually do
the job. We are not packing terra cotta drain pipe with oakum and
pouring the joints full of lead. They prime the pipe, put some PVC
cement on the pipe and paste it together. The pressure side is going
to be pex tubing as often as not. It takes about an hour to get
certified on the termination method. (an expanded sleeve that snaps
over the joint). Then you just roll it out, strap it and hook it up.
Electricians are not threading Rigid Metal Pipe, they are dragging
Romex around. They don't even staple it anymore, they use tywraps and
the plastic boxes have push in internal clamps.
I am sure that if you went through the IBEW apprenticeship program
some old fart would spend 4 years telling you how they used to do
things back in the day but none of it is any more relevant than
teaching a tire changer how to shoe a horse.



I know a woman who is an IBEW journeyman out in San Francisco who is the
chief "trade" operator at a large industrial power plant. You couldn't
open her car door in terms of skill and knowledge. Couple of my union
buddies build nuclear and chemical plant plumbing. They might let you
refill the teepee rolls in the head.


And they are under the supervision of a college trained engineer. And then
their work is inspected. By guys like Greg and my Son in law. How many
of those plumbing jobs had to be redone? My brother went to Navy welding
school. A SeaBee. He was not union, and was one of those who built the
nuclear plane we had in the antarctic. And did not take 4 years to learn
like a union program.

On 11/1/2018 12:56 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 11/1/18 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 06:48:50 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/31/18 8:04 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:58:56 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

The big difference, of course, is that Ovbamna was trying to help the
immigrants, whileÂ* Trump is trying to ****Â* them over.

I am really surprised you are so anxious to bring all of these
immigrants in because I know them and they are certainly a threat to
those fat, lazy union workers you hold so dear. I Latino crew will out
work your anglos all day long, work for less and be ready to work a
job without 4 or 5 years of carrying a journeyman's tools and fetching
his coffee.


Just because you neverÂ* had the skills to hold down a union construction
job in the skilled trades in complexÂ* commercial constructionÂ* is no
reason to knock those who do. YourÂ* disdain for formal trainingÂ* in
justÂ* aboutÂ* every fieldÂ* is laughable. If you never need surgery, I
suggest you find aÂ* corpsman insteadÂ* of a surgeon.

You are simply full of ****. I would go up against a journeyman
electrician any day of the week and know a hell of a lot more than
most. I can also keep up with plumbers.
The point is they have dumbed down the skill necessary to do most
trades with newer materials and methods to the point that a fairly
recent immigrant will be working in a trade and be as effective as
anyone in months, not years.
That is particularly true in residential but they now allow Romex in
most light commercial too. The same is true of "plastic" plumbing.

Union apprenticeship programs are more about slowing down people
coming into the trade than in the training necessary to actually do
the job. We are not packing terra cotta drain pipe with oakum and
pouring the joints full of lead. They prime the pipe, put some PVC
cement on the pipe and paste it together.Â* The pressure side is going
to be pex tubing as often as not. It takes about an hour to get
certified on the termination method. (an expanded sleeve that snaps
over the joint). Then you just roll it out, strap it and hook it up.
Electricians are not threading Rigid Metal Pipe, they are dragging
Romex around. They don't even staple it anymore, they use tywraps and
the plastic boxes have push in internal clamps.
I am sure that if you went through the IBEW apprenticeship program
some old fart would spend 4 years telling you how they used to do
things back in the day but none of it is any more relevant than
teaching a tire changer how to shoe a horse.



I know a woman who is an IBEW journeyman out in San Francisco who is the
chief "trade" operator at a large industrial power plant. You couldn't
open her car door in terms of skill and knowledge. Couple of my union
buddies build nuclear and chemical plant plumbing. They might let you
refill the teepee rolls in the head.


Being union is not a prerequisite for designing and/or building nuclear
or chemical plumbing. In the trades, it is not required to be union for
a welder, for example, to be "N" code certified.

My company was never union but we worked on projects that required a "N"
code in their design and construction.

I know you didn't say that but it was sorta implied ... again.

The interesting part about the EO and the 14th is he is implementing an
argument that has been upheld in court. The “under the Jurisdiction “
part.

Keyser Soze
- show quoted text -
I know a woman who is an IBEW journeyman out in San Francisco who is the
chief "trade" operator at a large industrial power plant. You couldn't
open her car door in terms of skill and knowledge. Couple of my union
buddies build nuclear and chemical plant plumbing. They might let you
refill the teepee rolls in the head.

........

No carpenters apprenticeship for my son. He bought his card...

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:56:45 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 11/1/18 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 06:48:50 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/31/18 8:04 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:58:56 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

The big difference, of course, is that Ovbamna was trying to help the
immigrants, while Trump is trying to **** them over.

I am really surprised you are so anxious to bring all of these
immigrants in because I know them and they are certainly a threat to
those fat, lazy union workers you hold so dear. I Latino crew will out
work your anglos all day long, work for less and be ready to work a
job without 4 or 5 years of carrying a journeyman's tools and fetching
his coffee.


Just because you never had the skills to hold down a union construction
job in the skilled trades in complex commercial construction is no
reason to knock those who do. Your disdain for formal training in
just about every field is laughable. If you never need surgery, I
suggest you find a corpsman instead of a surgeon.

You are simply full of ****. I would go up against a journeyman
electrician any day of the week and know a hell of a lot more than
most. I can also keep up with plumbers.
The point is they have dumbed down the skill necessary to do most
trades with newer materials and methods to the point that a fairly
recent immigrant will be working in a trade and be as effective as
anyone in months, not years.
That is particularly true in residential but they now allow Romex in
most light commercial too. The same is true of "plastic" plumbing.

Union apprenticeship programs are more about slowing down people
coming into the trade than in the training necessary to actually do
the job. We are not packing terra cotta drain pipe with oakum and
pouring the joints full of lead. They prime the pipe, put some PVC
cement on the pipe and paste it together. The pressure side is going
to be pex tubing as often as not. It takes about an hour to get
certified on the termination method. (an expanded sleeve that snaps
over the joint). Then you just roll it out, strap it and hook it up.
Electricians are not threading Rigid Metal Pipe, they are dragging
Romex around. They don't even staple it anymore, they use tywraps and
the plastic boxes have push in internal clamps.
I am sure that if you went through the IBEW apprenticeship program
some old fart would spend 4 years telling you how they used to do
things back in the day but none of it is any more relevant than
teaching a tire changer how to shoe a horse.



I know a woman who is an IBEW journeyman out in San Francisco who is the
chief "trade" operator at a large industrial power plant. You couldn't
open her car door in terms of skill and knowledge. Couple of my union
buddies build nuclear and chemical plant plumbing. They might let you
refill the teepee rolls in the head.

I suppose you think being certified, residential, commercial and plan
review by IAEI, ICBO and SBCCI (now ICC) along with being licensed by
the state is nothing. I am the guy who goes behind these IBEW folks
and sees what they did wrong.
There are plenty of crusty old electricians who can make up
switchboards faster and neater than I can. They will bend pipe better
too but they probably do not keep up as well with an electrical code
that changes every 3 years and they only concentrate on the things
that they do.
I bet that woman knows everything there is to know about medium and
high voltage, probably more than me (they are not on the NEC there, it
is the NESC). Does she know how to wire a swimming pool or what the
rules are for fire pumps?

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 13:01:40 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 11/1/18 12:54 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 07:37:35 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/31/18 11:29 PM, Bill wrote:
justan wrote:
Keyser Soze Wrote in message:
POTUS Pig Vomit wants to kill the 14th Amendment, the one that
says:"???Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United
States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the
United States and of the State wherein they reside."You just know that
Orange Asshole has never read the Constitution and if he does ever read
it, he won't understand it.

It's hard to believe someone who speaks like you do, ever went to
college?

I guess that is what you get in a remote Midwest college.


It is humorous to see two of rec.boats' right-wingers with the worst
skills in reading comprehension, spelling, and grammar comment
negatively on the abilities of others in those same areas.

This is from a guy who brags about having his spell checker turned off
and ends up spelling like a plumber.


Oh, really? I rarely make a spelling error. I admit to being a lousy
typist, but I don't use speeeelczecher.

You make at least one a day and I usually correct them in my reply. I
am not like you, I don't point out typos unless it is in a "punny"
way. I don't waste time on stupid **** like that.

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 13:57:35 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 11/1/2018 12:56 PM, Keyser Soze wrote:
On 11/1/18 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 06:48:50 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/31/18 8:04 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2018 14:58:56 -0400, Keyser Soze
wrote:

The big difference, of course, is that Ovbamna was trying to help the
immigrants, whileÂ* Trump is trying to ****Â* them over.

I am really surprised you are so anxious to bring all of these
immigrants in because I know them and they are certainly a threat to
those fat, lazy union workers you hold so dear. I Latino crew will out
work your anglos all day long, work for less and be ready to work a
job without 4 or 5 years of carrying a journeyman's tools and fetching
his coffee.


Just because you neverÂ* had the skills to hold down a union construction
job in the skilled trades in complexÂ* commercial constructionÂ* is no
reason to knock those who do. YourÂ* disdain for formal trainingÂ* in
justÂ* aboutÂ* every fieldÂ* is laughable. If you never need surgery, I
suggest you find aÂ* corpsman insteadÂ* of a surgeon.

You are simply full of ****. I would go up against a journeyman
electrician any day of the week and know a hell of a lot more than
most. I can also keep up with plumbers.
The point is they have dumbed down the skill necessary to do most
trades with newer materials and methods to the point that a fairly
recent immigrant will be working in a trade and be as effective as
anyone in months, not years.
That is particularly true in residential but they now allow Romex in
most light commercial too. The same is true of "plastic" plumbing.

Union apprenticeship programs are more about slowing down people
coming into the trade than in the training necessary to actually do
the job. We are not packing terra cotta drain pipe with oakum and
pouring the joints full of lead. They prime the pipe, put some PVC
cement on the pipe and paste it together.Â* The pressure side is going
to be pex tubing as often as not. It takes about an hour to get
certified on the termination method. (an expanded sleeve that snaps
over the joint). Then you just roll it out, strap it and hook it up.
Electricians are not threading Rigid Metal Pipe, they are dragging
Romex around. They don't even staple it anymore, they use tywraps and
the plastic boxes have push in internal clamps.
I am sure that if you went through the IBEW apprenticeship program
some old fart would spend 4 years telling you how they used to do
things back in the day but none of it is any more relevant than
teaching a tire changer how to shoe a horse.



I know a woman who is an IBEW journeyman out in San Francisco who is the
chief "trade" operator at a large industrial power plant. You couldn't
open her car door in terms of skill and knowledge. Couple of my union
buddies build nuclear and chemical plant plumbing. They might let you
refill the teepee rolls in the head.


Being union is not a prerequisite for designing and/or building nuclear
or chemical plumbing. In the trades, it is not required to be union for
a welder, for example, to be "N" code certified.

My company was never union but we worked on projects that required a "N"
code in their design and construction.

I know you didn't say that but it was sorta implied ... again.


The prettiest "pipe" work I ever saw was at Hendry Correctional, done
by inmates. I suppose they could have been IBEW master electricians
but they were in prison for dealing drugs.

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 12:35:54 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Keyser Soze wrote:

On 10/31/18 8:04 PM, wrote:

I am really surprised you are so anxious to bring all of these
immigrants in because I know them and they are certainly a threat to
those fat, lazy union workers you hold so dear. I Latino crew will out
work your anglos all day long, work for less and be ready to work a
job without 4 or 5 years of carrying a journeyman's tools and fetching
his coffee.



Just because you never had the skills to hold down a union construction
job in the skilled trades in complex commercial construction is no
reason to knock those who do. Your disdain for formal training in
just about every field is laughable. If you never need surgery, I
suggest you find a corpsman instead of a surgeon.

You crack me up. I am sure the architects and engineers that design
these commercial buildings are thinking, "Let's see. I can make this
more complex because union tradesmen will be building it".

Buildings are designed to be built using proven technology
and materials that *any* qualified construction worker can do.

Your claims are nonsense.

They have dumbed down these trades so much with new materials and
methods, all but the most complicated jobs could be learned in a month
or two. In one and two family, 90% of the work could be taught in a
week.
BTW the toughest skills are nothing to do with the actual trades, it
is planing and plan review on my side. Once it is on the plan,
actually doing the work is a paint by numbers thing. When you have a
residential setting, they are sleepwalking through a repetitive
factory type job. That is particularly true when it is a condo or
tract housing where you are building the same 10 rooms for months.
As I said the 4 plex had a gang and each guy only did one or two
things all day. You don't need 4 years fetching coffee to learn how to
do that.