These guys say so....

http://brusselstimes.com/business/te...an-study-shows

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:25:01 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

These guys say so....

http://brusselstimes.com/business/te...an-study-shows

They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric
cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways.
You could say solar fixes that but most of these cars will be on the
road when the sun is shining and get charged late at night when rates
are lowest.
I suppose you could put solar collectors on the roof of daytime
parking garages and charge a few cars.
Like most of these schemes, as long as there are not many of them,
they look good. A garage even less than half full of electric cars
would eat that solar energy far faster than it gets collected.
It is like those guys with a solar collector on the roof of their golf
cart. It is great if you only use it every other day, don't use it a
lot and keep it parked in the sun. My charger puts out 20a at around
40v (0.8KWH) and it takes ~8-9 hours to recharge the batteries.
The usable capacity of a typical 36v cart is 8KWH or more depending on
which battery you choose.
I bet Bill's Volt is close to 10x that. Certainly a Tesla would be
much more.

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote:

They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric
cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways.

===

In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the
fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient
than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly,
the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically
excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in
the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live
long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some
day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to
advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency
batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage
of wind and solar energy.

---
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On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote:

They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric
cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways.

===

In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the
fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient
than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly,
the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically
excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in
the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live
long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some
day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to
advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency
batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage
of wind and solar energy.
That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article
was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them.
Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at
night.

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote:

They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric
cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways.

===

In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the
fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient
than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly,
the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically
excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in
the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live
long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some
day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to
advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency
batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage
of wind and solar energy.
That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article
was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them.
Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at
night.


===

At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away.

Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery
technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help
with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was
covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of
energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually
happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases.

---
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https://www.avg.com

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:28:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 17:01:36 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 16:08:55 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 14:11:32 -0400, wrote:

They are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electric
cars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways.

===

In my opinion that's an over simplification. For one it ignores the
fact that stationary, large-scale power plants are much more efficient
than the average internal combusion engine used in vehicles. Secondly,
the charging is usually done at off peak hours when there is typically
excess grid capacity. Last but not least, the trend is pointing in
the direction of renewable energy such as wind and solar. If we live
long enough (doubtful), we might even see clean nuclear fusion some
day. As an additional benefit, electric cars have done quite a bit to
advance the state-of-the-art for light weight, high efficiency
batteries. Those gains will eventually prove useful for the storage
of wind and solar energy.
That all assumes a clean power plant in the first place. The article
was talking about coal plants and we still have plenty of them.
Your solar power is not going to do much if the cars are charged at
night.


===

At least in this country, coal plants are rapidly going away.

Solar power at night is not going to happen of course. New battery
technology, and other energy storage devices, will eventually help
with that issue however. If every south facing roof in Florida was
covered with high efficiency solar panels, there would be plenty of
energy to spare for battery charging. I think that will eventually
happen as the price of solar panels steadily decreases.

My problem is drilling holes in a roof that isn't leaking now. My
roofer neighbor says solar is great for his business. I also only have
about 3kw worth of south facing roof.
Solar is getting a lot cheaper tho. I was looking the other day and
there are lots of collectors in the 75 cents a watt neighborhood.
I wonder how FPL would feel if I built an array on their property ;-)

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 06:37:07 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:25:01 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:These guys say so....http://brusselstimes.com/business/te...tudy-showsThey are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electriccars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. You could say solar fixes that but most of these cars will be on theroad when the sun is shining and get charged late at night when ratesare lowest. I suppose you could put solar collectors on the roof of daytimeparking garages and charge a few cars.Like most of these schemes, as long as there are not many of them,they look good. A garage even less than half full of electric carswould eat that solar energy far faster than it gets collected.It is like those guys with a solar collector on the roof of their golfcart. It is great if you only use it every other day, don't use it alot and keep it parked in the sun. My charger puts out 20a at around40v
(0.8KWH) and it takes ~8-9 hours to recharge the batteries.The usable capacity of a typical 36v cart is 8KWH or more depending onwhich battery you choose. I bet Bill's Volt is close to 10x that. Certainly a Tesla would bemuch more.
My Club Car uses six eight volt deep cycle batteries. Would it be
better to deplete the charge to 50% before recharging or, as some
say, recharge after each day's use, no matter the state of
discharge? They say my charger is a smart one but it's not smart
enough to avoid gassing off a lot of water.

===

I have a lot of experience using and abusing golf cart batteries - 8
of them in the inverter bank on our trawler. It's much better for the
batteries to recharge them after each use rather than wait for 50%
depletion. Greater depth of discharge equates directly to shorter
life.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-cycle-life-curve-of-a-Trojan-battery-for-renewable-energy-applications-38_fig1_283807259

Do not over charge however. You really need a good multi-stage
charger to do this properly.

---
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On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 10:03:10 -0400,
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 06:37:07 -0400 (EDT), Justan Ohlphart
wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Tue, 23 Apr 2019 09:25:01 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:These guys say so....http://brusselstimes.com/business/te...tudy-showsThey are assuming coal fired electric plants but I agree all electriccars do is move the smoke stack down the road a ways. You could say solar fixes that but most of these cars will be on theroad when the sun is shining and get charged late at night when ratesare lowest. I suppose you could put solar collectors on the roof of daytimeparking garages and charge a few cars.Like most of these schemes, as long as there are not many of them,they look good. A garage even less than half full of electric carswould eat that solar energy far faster than it gets collected.It is like those guys with a solar collector on the roof of their golfcart. It is great if you only use it every other day, don't use it alot and keep it parked in the sun. My charger puts out 20a at around40v
(0.8KWH) and it takes ~8-9 hours to recharge the batteries.The usable capacity of a typical 36v cart is 8KWH or more depending onwhich battery you choose. I bet Bill's Volt is close to 10x that. Certainly a Tesla would bemuch more.
My Club Car uses six eight volt deep cycle batteries. Would it be
better to deplete the charge to 50% before recharging or, as some
say, recharge after each day's use, no matter the state of
discharge? They say my charger is a smart one but it's not smart
enough to avoid gassing off a lot of water.

===

I have a lot of experience using and abusing golf cart batteries - 8
of them in the inverter bank on our trawler. It's much better for the
batteries to recharge them after each use rather than wait for 50%
depletion. Greater depth of discharge equates directly to shorter
life.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Typical-cycle-life-curve-of-a-Trojan-battery-for-renewable-energy-applications-38_fig1_283807259

Do not over charge however. You really need a good multi-stage
charger to do this properly.

I try to keep my cart batteries up and not let them discharge much.