Only a idiot with an
extremely short outlook would ever expect a company to sell their reputation
for $30,000,

Try reading for content. The $30,000 is just the price to participate in the
general survey. You want to use the Powers logo and implied endorsement in your
ad campaign? Pony up, podner.

This sounds like an old ignorant bigot who says I knew so and so did such
and such, so all them people are just alike. They are all alike, I haven't
seen anything to make me change my mind about them.



"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Chuck, I'm beginning to get the feeling that you are looking at Powers
from an insiders perspective who has been burned in one way or another
by negative survey results sometime in the past.

Close.

Never burned, but I have seen the shenanigans first hand.

Take the dealer who sent in a "change of address" for each customer
shortly
after the sale. Mysteriously, all of his customers seemed to move to a
post
office box number after buying a Brand X car. This guy went from so-so in
the
satisfaction department to the glowing superstar of the district
overnight.
Every single report was "completely satisfied" with just about everything.
As a
result, his dealership got bonus shipments of models that were in short
supply.
Mfgrs have been known use the results to determine allocation to dealers.
The guy finally got busted after about a year and a half. Disgruntled F&I
manager blew the whistle about the scam. I understand they threatened to
pull
his franchise over the whole incident, but the bottom line was the guy was
selling cars like crazy. (You would be too, if your outstanding
"satisfaction
rating" earned you a disproportionate number of the hard to get models)

Take the very common practice of the "free tank of gas if you'll let us
help
you fill out the survey." Get the customer to bring the survey in, and
agree
to address any of the issues the customer would otherwise mark as less
than
satisfactory.

Then factor in the aspect of human nature that the guy who is truly
satisfied
may or may not have anything to say about his experience. The guy who is
ticked
off most definitely will. I have set in CSI reviews with factory reps
demanding
to know why the dealership's rating had slipped a couple of points in a
month.
Upon examing the individual returns, we'd find that maybe 125 people were
generally pleased and half a dozen or so hadn't (apparently) even bothered
to
read the individual questions. In many cases, they just took a pen and
would
draw a vertical line straight through all the vertically stacked
"completely
unsatisfied" comments. When we'd investigate just why the customer was so
unhappy, about half the time it was because the factory had screwed
something
up in the assembly of the car and that particular part had just failed the
day
before the guy got the survey. Even though we'd be fixing it free,
providing a
loaner, etc, some of these people felt that they had to "get even" for the
inconvenience. As a result, questions like, "How would you rate your sales
person's professionalism?" would get marked "completely unsatisfactory!"

I bought a new Volvo this year, from a local dealer who sells a lot of
luxury
car lines. Volvo is the least expensive trademark they carry. (I bought
the
least expensive Vovlo made). I was amused to see that nothing has changed
in
the survey department. At delivery time, they stressed just how important
the
survey I was going to receive was to the dealership.

After I had the car a few days, I got a call from the sales manager asking
whether I had any problem recommending the salesperson. "No, the
salesperson
was pretty decent. No problem." The sales manager went on to tell me that
a
significant portion of the salesman's income was a bonus that was
determined by
how well each survey rated his performance. Bring on the guilt trip.

The day before I got the survey, I got a letter above the signature of one
of
the upper level managers in the dealerhship organization. It was almost a
plea.
"If there's any reason why you cannot mark us completley satisfactory in
every
category, please contact us before you complete the survey and let us try
to
make some arrangement to accomodate your concerns."

The opinions expressed by the customers are quite often influenced, and
in
some cases very strongly and deliberately, by the selling dealer.

As far as the questions in the survey:
I have sat on dealer advisory councils where the wording of survey
questions
and the order in which they should appear on the CSI survey have both been
discussed.
The results of those discussions certainly weren't binding on the survey
company, but somebody sure thought it was important to solicit our
opinions. No
way in heck that anybody could say the subject, wording, and order of the
questions isn't ever a topic for discussion. There isn't a true "arm's
length"
distance between the survey company and its customers (the manufacturers)
that
would be required for the survey to be objective.




It has now been a number of years since these experiences, but I see
nothing
that would lead me to suspect that the survey companies have changed
tactics.


Perhaps no
more so than the marine press with their well known penchant for
writing puff pieces about favored advertisers.

The most blatant puff pieces ever written were never presented as
objective,
scientific research. Just a matter of opinion.

According to JD Powers, a company does not have to pay anything to have
their boat included in the general survey. Try reading for content.

Have you ever made a mistake and said, well I guess I was wrong?

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Only a idiot with an
extremely short outlook would ever expect a company to sell their
reputation
for $30,000,

Try reading for content. The $30,000 is just the price to participate in
the
general survey. You want to use the Powers logo and implied endorsement in
your
ad campaign? Pony up, podner.

Sounds to me like "spam me" has a vested interest, and a few others are
in denial that upstanding dealers and manufacturers could be
manipulating the survey, and that the survey company plays along. Sort
of like those magazine reviews, where you have to really really read
between the lines to figure out the bad stuff, but the good stuff is in
17 point bold. And then a couple of years later there is the article
that says "that was a piece of junk when we tested it".

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:57:53 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

Chuck, I'm beginning to get the feeling that you are looking at
Powers
from an insiders perspective who has been burned in one way or
another
by negative survey results sometime in the past. Or is there an
issue
in the overall industry with the public getting to see this kind of
information? Builders (and dealers) who don't score well should do a
bit of introspection and see if an improved commitment to quality is
compatible with their business model. If not, they need to learn to
live and prosper with that position rather than try to shoot the
messenger.

Yes, there is clearly the sound of Chuck's Ox being gored.

Or.. maybe something is hitting home for some reason.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...

Never burned, but I have seen the shenanigans first hand.

Take the dealer who sent in a "change of address" for each customer
shortly
after the sale. Mysteriously, all of his customers seemed to move to a
post
office box number after buying a Brand X car. This guy went from so-so in
the
satisfaction department to the glowing superstar of the district
overnight.
Every single report was "completely satisfied" with just about everything.



The JD Powers survey form that I received (automotive) did not ask who the
dealer was.

Dealers do not send in changes of address, a boatowner would have to
notify his state's license and boat registration department, and perhaps his
loan holder.

The JD Powers survey form that I received (automotive) did not ask who the
dealer was.

Dealers do not send in changes of address, a boatowner would have to
notify his state's license and boat registration department, and perhaps his
loan holder.

The factory provides the mailing list to the survey company, based on delivery
reports and warranty activations from dealers. Teh mailing list has nothing to
do with the leinholder or DMV. Under the scheme this particular dishonest
organization used, the DMV, the lender, and the customer were all unaware that
CSI survey info (and recalls) were being intercepted by the seller.

The other common trick, "Bring your survey in to us and we'll give you a tank
of gas" resulted in a whole lot of surveys that never made it to the mailbox in
the end.

According to JD Powers, a company does not have to pay anything to have
their boat included in the general survey. Try reading for content.

Have you ever made a mistake and said, well I guess I was wrong?

You're right. The company only has to pay money if they want access to the
survey results. There is no charge to have your boat appear as an also ran if
you don't want to know how the results are running before the survey is
released to the public.

Yes, there is clearly the sound of Chuck's Ox being gored.

Or.. maybe something is hitting home for some reason.

What? More fan mail from the guy who just claimed he "seldom sees" my posts?
Isn't this the third or fourth personal comment today? Several based on wild
speculations such as this? And, as ever, *no* discussion of the subject at
hand. And all this after the recent, obvious lie that he had me "filtered"?
Maybe I should be flattered. This guy seems to be fixated on a handful of
personalities. How does one get so lucky?

Last guy I knew that was named Wally came from a tiny little town called Fort
Young, Wisconsin. As I recall, he wasn't exactly a Rhodes scholar. It was easy
to remember his place of birth with three simple initials:

FY, W.

The only wild accusation is the one made by you concerning JD Powers. You
have slandered a company based upon your knowledge of how someone has
manipulated survey data from another company. You have stated you know that
JD Powers manipulates questions on the survey to highlight the benefits of
the company paying for the report, yet you have no proof of any such
behavior. I do not work for any survey company, the only interest I have is
not allowing someone to slander a reputable company without asking for some
proof. So far all you have said is I know that some people have used tricks
to get them better results on their CSI, which I agree can be done.

NOW SHOW US ONE JD POWER SURVEY THAT HAS BEEN MANIPULATED TO HIGHLIGHT THE
FEATURES AND BENEFITS OF THE COMPANY "PAYING FOR THE SURVEY" to the
determent of the other companies listed on the survey.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Yes, there is clearly the sound of Chuck's Ox being gored.

Or.. maybe something is hitting home for some reason.

What? More fan mail from the guy who just claimed he "seldom sees" my
posts?
Isn't this the third or fourth personal comment today? Several based on
wild
speculations such as this? And, as ever, *no* discussion of the subject at
hand. And all this after the recent, obvious lie that he had me
"filtered"?
Maybe I should be flattered. This guy seems to be fixated on a handful of
personalities. How does one get so lucky?

Last guy I knew that was named Wally came from a tiny little town called
Fort
Young, Wisconsin. As I recall, he wasn't exactly a Rhodes scholar. It was
easy
to remember his place of birth with three simple initials:

FY, W.

A wise man once said "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate
the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise
the other". (Mathew 6:24)

Applicability of this quote to the situation under consideration is left as
an exercise for the reader.

del

"Spam Me Please" wrote in message
news:7Zqpb.92814$Fm2.77913@attbi_s04...
The only wild accusation is the one made by you concerning JD Powers. You
have slandered a company based upon your knowledge of how someone has
manipulated survey data from another company. You have stated you know
that
JD Powers manipulates questions on the survey to highlight the benefits of
the company paying for the report, yet you have no proof of any such
behavior. I do not work for any survey company, the only interest I have
is
not allowing someone to slander a reputable company without asking for
some
proof. So far all you have said is I know that some people have used
tricks
to get them better results on their CSI, which I agree can be done.

NOW SHOW US ONE JD POWER SURVEY THAT HAS BEEN MANIPULATED TO HIGHLIGHT THE
FEATURES AND BENEFITS OF THE COMPANY "PAYING FOR THE SURVEY" to the
determent of the other companies listed on the survey.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Yes, there is clearly the sound of Chuck's Ox being gored.

Or.. maybe something is hitting home for some reason.

What? More fan mail from the guy who just claimed he "seldom sees" my
posts?
Isn't this the third or fourth personal comment today? Several based on
wild
speculations such as this? And, as ever, *no* discussion of the subject
at
hand. And all this after the recent, obvious lie that he had me
"filtered"?
Maybe I should be flattered. This guy seems to be fixated on a handful
of
personalities. How does one get so lucky?

Last guy I knew that was named Wally came from a tiny little town called
Fort
Young, Wisconsin. As I recall, he wasn't exactly a Rhodes scholar. It
was
easy
to remember his place of birth with three simple initials:

FY, W.