On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 07:44:34 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 6/30/19 10:40 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 23:48:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:20 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 16:49:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
It remains the mystery at the heart of Boeing Co.’s 737 Max crisis: how
a company renowned for meticulous design made seemingly basic software
mistakes leading to a pair of deadly crashes. Longtime Boeing engineers
say the effort was complicated by a push to outsource work to lower-paid
contractors.

The Max software -- plagued by issues that could keep the planes
grounded months longer after U.S. regulators this week revealed a new
flaw -- was developed at a time Boeing was laying off experienced
engineers and pressing suppliers to cut costs.

Increasingly, the iconic American planemaker and its subcontractors have
relied on temporary workers making as little as $9 an hour to develop
and test software, often from countries lacking a deep background in
aerospace -- notably India.

In offices across from Seattle’s Boeing Field, recent college graduates
employed by the Indian software developer HCL Technologies Ltd. occupied
several rows of desks, said Mark Rabin, a former Boeing software
engineer who worked in a flight-test group that supported the Max.

The coders from HCL were typically designing to specifications set by
Boeing. Still, “it was controversial because it was far less efficient
than Boeing engineers just writing the code,� Rabin said. Frequently, he
recalled, “it took many rounds going back and forth because the code was
not done correctly.�

Boeing’s cultivation of Indian companies appeared to pay other
dividends. In recent years, it has won several orders for Indian
military and commercial aircraft, such as a $22 billion one in January
2017 to supply SpiceJet Ltd. That order included 100 737-Max 8 jets and
represented Boeing’s largest order ever from an Indian airline, a coup
in a country dominated by Airbus.

https://is.gd/XelJKH

---
The new name for the 737 Max: El Cheapo


Maybe because to survive these days, you have to cut costs. Trump is at
least recognizing China for intellectual property theft, and all these free
trade agreements seem to move any semiskilled job to a 3rd world country.
What happens to medical innovation when the government takes any profit out
of medical care? My last job before retirement was with a biomedical
company who dropped $45 million on a fix for female stress urinary
incontinence. Who would invest if there was no return in investment?

Exactly. Nobody wants to talk about NAFTA and GATT when they gripe
about outsourcing. Then there was the relaxing of the H1B visa rules
that now allow companies to import talent to replace talent they
already have on the job. The only advantage is salary.
That is how you get a programmer with an advanced degree working for
$10-15 an hour while your old $35 an hour programmer is asking people
if they want paper or plastic.
The old guy demanded benefits and raises. the H1B guy knows if they
don't like him, it is back to Mumbai so he just says "I'm very happy
to work here".


Even 20 years ago, I figured it cost me $30,000 in salary. We had to
compete against an H1b India engineer would would work for $60K. Less than
a plumber.


You should have gone into the tiki bar busines.


I went in to Engineering. Never declared bankruptcy, and could retire
nicely just before turning 60. Why did you not spend your education years
learning useful stuff!

Harry needs to work, it is all he has in his life. He says so here all
the time.


I like to work and use my cerebral skills. It's a lot more interesting
to me than building tiki bars or kit-bashing electricity or being the
neighborhood volunteer handyman, and the people I get to work with are a
lot more interesting than a bunch of sun-baked retired Florida neighbor
busybodies.

Yeah sitting in the basement thinking up puerile insults is far more
rewarding for you than actually helping your neighbors and trying to
improve things.

On Mon, 01 Jul 2019 11:08:25 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 07:44:34 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 6/30/19 10:40 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 23:48:07 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 6/30/19 6:20 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 16:49:22 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

Keyser Soze wrote:
It remains the mystery at the heart of Boeing Co.’s 737 Max crisis: how
a company renowned for meticulous design made seemingly basic software
mistakes leading to a pair of deadly crashes. Longtime Boeing engineers
say the effort was complicated by a push to outsource work to lower-paid
contractors.

The Max software -- plagued by issues that could keep the planes
grounded months longer after U.S. regulators this week revealed a new
flaw -- was developed at a time Boeing was laying off experienced
engineers and pressing suppliers to cut costs.

Increasingly, the iconic American planemaker and its subcontractors have
relied on temporary workers making as little as $9 an hour to develop
and test software, often from countries lacking a deep background in
aerospace -- notably India.

In offices across from Seattle’s Boeing Field, recent college graduates
employed by the Indian software developer HCL Technologies Ltd. occupied
several rows of desks, said Mark Rabin, a former Boeing software
engineer who worked in a flight-test group that supported the Max.

The coders from HCL were typically designing to specifications set by
Boeing. Still, “it was controversial because it was far less efficient
than Boeing engineers just writing the code,” Rabin said. Frequently, he
recalled, “it took many rounds going back and forth because the code was
not done correctly.”

Boeing’s cultivation of Indian companies appeared to pay other
dividends. In recent years, it has won several orders for Indian
military and commercial aircraft, such as a $22 billion one in January
2017 to supply SpiceJet Ltd. That order included 100 737-Max 8 jets and
represented Boeing’s largest order ever from an Indian airline, a coup
in a country dominated by Airbus.

https://is.gd/XelJKH

---
The new name for the 737 Max: El Cheapo


Maybe because to survive these days, you have to cut costs. Trump is at
least recognizing China for intellectual property theft, and all these free
trade agreements seem to move any semiskilled job to a 3rd world country.
What happens to medical innovation when the government takes any profit out
of medical care? My last job before retirement was with a biomedical
company who dropped $45 million on a fix for female stress urinary
incontinence. Who would invest if there was no return in investment?

Exactly. Nobody wants to talk about NAFTA and GATT when they gripe
about outsourcing. Then there was the relaxing of the H1B visa rules
that now allow companies to import talent to replace talent they
already have on the job. The only advantage is salary.
That is how you get a programmer with an advanced degree working for
$10-15 an hour while your old $35 an hour programmer is asking people
if they want paper or plastic.
The old guy demanded benefits and raises. the H1B guy knows if they
don't like him, it is back to Mumbai so he just says "I'm very happy
to work here".


Even 20 years ago, I figured it cost me $30,000 in salary. We had to
compete against an H1b India engineer would would work for $60K. Less than
a plumber.


You should have gone into the tiki bar busines.


I went in to Engineering. Never declared bankruptcy, and could retire
nicely just before turning 60. Why did you not spend your education years
learning useful stuff!

Harry needs to work, it is all he has in his life. He says so here all
the time.


I like to work and use my cerebral skills. It's a lot more interesting
to me than building tiki bars or kit-bashing electricity or being the
neighborhood volunteer handyman, and the people I get to work with are a
lot more interesting than a bunch of sun-baked retired Florida neighbor
busybodies.

Yeah sitting in the basement thinking up puerile insults is far more
rewarding for you than actually helping your neighbors and trying to
improve things.

Help neighbors? Come on. He wouldn't even help his mentally disabled son!

On 7/1/19 11:08 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 07:44:34 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:



Harry needs to work, it is all he has in his life. He says so here all
the time.


I like to work and use my cerebral skills. It's a lot more interesting
to me than building tiki bars or kit-bashing electricity or being the
neighborhood volunteer handyman, and the people I get to work with are a
lot more interesting than a bunch of sun-baked retired Florida neighbor
busybodies.

Yeah sitting in the basement thinking up puerile insults is far more
rewarding for you than actually helping your neighbors and trying to
improve things.


We all do favors for each other in our little neighborhood. Most
everyone hires professional contractors to handle significant
"improvements." This isn't an old-age community of Florida retirees
driving around in golf carts.