I feel for the working stiff airline employees everywhere who are going
to lose their jobs, but not for the airline industry or its shareholders
in this country who for decades have made air travel the miserable
experience it has become for passengers. I'm old enough to remember when
air travel was "regulated," and when planes were roomier, service was
better, and our airports were only on the verge of being obsolete.

Perhaps there will be a rebirth of airline companies devoted to decent
service at decent prices, but I doubt it.

(CNN Business) A top executive at United Airlines is telling employees
to consider leaving the company voluntarily as it grapples with the
consequences of the coronavirus pandemic.
In a memo to some United Airlines staffers, which was obtained by CNN
Business, Greg Hart — the company's chief operations officer — said the
airline will need to "right size" its workforce.
--
MAGA - Manipulating America's Gullible Assholes

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 8:16:34 AM UTC-4, Keyser Soze wrote:


Perhaps there will be a rebirth of airline companies devoted to decent
service at decent prices, but I doubt it.

Only if they can bust the airline worker's unions. The big salaries, bennies and perks they have are what has driven your knees into the seat back in front of you.

Its Me Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 8:16:34 AM UTC-4, Keyser Soze wrote: Perhaps there will be a rebirth of airline companies devoted to decent service at decent prices, but I doubt it.Only if they can bust the airline worker's unions. The big salaries, bennies and perks they have are what has driven your knees into the seat back in front of you.

In Fat Harry's utopian world the consumer is entitled to goods and
services good,cheap and fast. In the real world you have to
choose 2 out of 3. Eliminate unions and you can get closer to
having utopia. Pitting unions against the producer AND the
consumer is like the butcher putting his thumb on the scale. Fat
Harry is acustomed to living high off the hog on someone elses
dime so naturally, he is a union man all the way. And I use the
term man loosely.
--
..

On Tue, 5 May 2020 08:16:32 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

I feel for the working stiff airline employees everywhere who are going
to lose their jobs, but not for the airline industry or its shareholders
in this country who for decades have made air travel the miserable
experience it has become for passengers. I'm old enough to remember when
air travel was "regulated," and when planes were roomier, service was
better, and our airports were only on the verge of being obsolete.

Perhaps there will be a rebirth of airline companies devoted to decent
service at decent prices, but I doubt it.

(CNN Business) A top executive at United Airlines is telling employees
to consider leaving the company voluntarily as it grapples with the
consequences of the coronavirus pandemic.
In a memo to some United Airlines staffers, which was obtained by CNN
Business, Greg Hart — the company's chief operations officer — said the
airline will need to "right size" its workforce.

The problem will be what you call "decent prices". In spite of 300%
inflation. the "regulated" plane fare in 1977 was far more than what
you can get economy coach for now.
If you can't afford 1st class now, you couldn't afford "regulated"
coach.

On Tue, 5 May 2020 07:27:53 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 8:16:34 AM UTC-4, Keyser Soze wrote:


Perhaps there will be a rebirth of airline companies devoted to decent
service at decent prices, but I doubt it.

Only if they can bust the airline worker's unions. The big salaries, bennies and perks they have are what has driven your knees into the seat back in front of you.

I don't even think that is true. What really did it is the desire of
fliers to be able to fly to the other coast for $99. They are willing
to give up anything for that price.
All deregulation did was allow the airlines to sell them what they
asked for at a price they are willing to pay.

wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2020 07:27:53 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 8:16:34 AM UTC-4, Keyser Soze wrote:


Perhaps there will be a rebirth of airline companies devoted to decent
service at decent prices, but I doubt it.

Only if they can bust the airline worker's unions. The big salaries,
bennies and perks they have are what has driven your knees into the seat
back in front of you.

I don't even think that is true. What really did it is the desire of
fliers to be able to fly to the other coast for $99. They are willing
to give up anything for that price.
All deregulation did was allow the airlines to sell them what they
asked for at a price they are willing to pay.


Most of United pay is not that high. When the pilots union took over
control through an ESOP the employees other than the pilots got screwed.
Then the pilots found out, there was a lack of income to United. Newer
pilots salaries were much lower. And as Fretwell states, $99 fares cuts
services to the bone.

On 5/5/20 1:02 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2020 08:16:32 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

I feel for the working stiff airline employees everywhere who are going
to lose their jobs, but not for the airline industry or its shareholders
in this country who for decades have made air travel the miserable
experience it has become for passengers. I'm old enough to remember when
air travel was "regulated," and when planes were roomier, service was
better, and our airports were only on the verge of being obsolete.

Perhaps there will be a rebirth of airline companies devoted to decent
service at decent prices, but I doubt it.

(CNN Business) A top executive at United Airlines is telling employees
to consider leaving the company voluntarily as it grapples with the
consequences of the coronavirus pandemic.
In a memo to some United Airlines staffers, which was obtained by CNN
Business, Greg Hart — the company's chief operations officer — said the
airline will need to "right size" its workforce.

The problem will be what you call "decent prices". In spite of 300%
inflation. the "regulated" plane fare in 1977 was far more than what
you can get economy coach for now.
If you can't afford 1st class now, you couldn't afford "regulated"
coach.


It's not a matter of afford...it is a matter of not willing to be robbed
for a slightly larger seat, the same crappy little uncleaned restrooms,
and a $3.00 first class airline meal. Last time I checked, it was $900
more for "first class" trip to San Francisco.

--
MAGA - Manipulating America's Gullible Assholes

Keyser Soze wrote:
On 5/5/20 1:02 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2020 08:16:32 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

I feel for the working stiff airline employees everywhere who are going
to lose their jobs, but not for the airline industry or its shareholders
in this country who for decades have made air travel the miserable
experience it has become for passengers. I'm old enough to remember when
air travel was "regulated," and when planes were roomier, service was
better, and our airports were only on the verge of being obsolete.

Perhaps there will be a rebirth of airline companies devoted to decent
service at decent prices, but I doubt it.

(CNN Business) A top executive at United Airlines is telling employees
to consider leaving the company voluntarily as it grapples with the
consequences of the coronavirus pandemic.
In a memo to some United Airlines staffers, which was obtained by CNN
Business, Greg Hart — the company's chief operations officer — said the
airline will need to "right size" its workforce.

The problem will be what you call "decent prices". In spite of 300%
inflation. the "regulated" plane fare in 1977 was far more than what
you can get economy coach for now.
If you can't afford 1st class now, you couldn't afford "regulated"
coach.


It's not a matter of afford...it is a matter of not willing to be robbed
for a slightly larger seat, the same crappy little uncleaned restrooms,
and a $3.00 first class airline meal. Last time I checked, it was $900
more for "first class" trip to San Francisco.


And what did coach ticket cost before deregulation? Figure in inflation.

On Tue, 5 May 2020 13:47:29 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

On 5/5/20 1:02 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2020 08:16:32 -0400, Keyser Soze wrote:

I feel for the working stiff airline employees everywhere who are going
to lose their jobs, but not for the airline industry or its shareholders
in this country who for decades have made air travel the miserable
experience it has become for passengers. I'm old enough to remember when
air travel was "regulated," and when planes were roomier, service was
better, and our airports were only on the verge of being obsolete.

Perhaps there will be a rebirth of airline companies devoted to decent
service at decent prices, but I doubt it.

(CNN Business) A top executive at United Airlines is telling employees
to consider leaving the company voluntarily as it grapples with the
consequences of the coronavirus pandemic.
In a memo to some United Airlines staffers, which was obtained by CNN
Business, Greg Hart — the company's chief operations officer — said the
airline will need to "right size" its workforce.

The problem will be what you call "decent prices". In spite of 300%
inflation. the "regulated" plane fare in 1977 was far more than what
you can get economy coach for now.
If you can't afford 1st class now, you couldn't afford "regulated"
coach.


It's not a matter of afford...it is a matter of not willing to be robbed
for a slightly larger seat, the same crappy little uncleaned restrooms,
and a $3.00 first class airline meal. Last time I checked, it was $900
more for "first class" trip to San Francisco.

That sounds about right although there are some ways to get a better
price and still ride up front. You do get extra stuff. Usually you are
only sharing that little bathroom with a dozen other people, not 2
bathrooms for 100 people. You get priority boarding, the fast line
through TSA, Fast line at the ticket counter if you need something,
checked bags are included, up to 70 pounds each, free drinks, better
service overall and the seat is a LOT bigger.
What do you think a fair price for a flight should be, assuming you
want it to include checked bags, a seat that is not cramped so badly
the person in front of you can't use the seat recliner, maybe a snack
and a soft drink?
If you want to pay Walmart prices for an ala carte ticket, expect to
pay extra for everything. That is what ala carte means.

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 1:44:58 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2020 07:27:53 -0700 (PDT), Its Me
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 8:16:34 AM UTC-4, Keyser Soze wrote:


Perhaps there will be a rebirth of airline companies devoted to decent
service at decent prices, but I doubt it.

Only if they can bust the airline worker's unions. The big salaries,
bennies and perks they have are what has driven your knees into the seat
back in front of you.

I don't even think that is true. What really did it is the desire of
fliers to be able to fly to the other coast for $99. They are willing
to give up anything for that price.
All deregulation did was allow the airlines to sell them what they
asked for at a price they are willing to pay.


Most of United pay is not that high. When the pilots union took over
control through an ESOP the employees other than the pilots got screwed.
Then the pilots found out, there was a lack of income to United. Newer
pilots salaries were much lower. And as Fretwell states, $99 fares cuts
services to the bone.

What you and Greg are talking about regarding the cheap fares is certainly a factor, but there are (were) some pretty high salaries in the business as well, and are nearly all unionized. United isn't a great example for pay, but Delta, American and others are. Things may have changed a bit over the last few years, but I've been working pretty closely with most of the majors and many minors over the last 25+ and have a little inside knowledge.

I didn't get to stand on the roof of the ramp control tower on top of the A concourse in Atlanta, taking pictures, for nothing. Lost count of how many towers I've been in, and how many airports I've been badged for.