Wrote in message:r
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:26:56 -0400 (EDT), justan wrote:Keyser Söze Wrote in message:r On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race relatedviolence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence thatresult in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If awarrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Notblaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person,be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used,specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind ofcompromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? Ican see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minorinfraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive aticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a deathsentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not"anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyoneencountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent.George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period.-- * Lock up Trump and his family ofgrifters. *Maybe Bidens investigation will determine why, once Floyd was subdued, action wasn't taken to move him to a secure location like the back seat of a police car. Floyd fought them when they tried to get him in the car, that was theproblem. I do fault the police somewhat. They should have called for a wagonand the 4 of them get him by hands and feet and throw his ass in thewagon. That was the way the DC police used to deal with things likethis. The 9 minutes was the error. They should not have screwed with thisthug that long.

Agreed. There is more justice to be metered out in this case.
Perhaps beyond the obvious.
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html

Keyser Söze Wrote in message:r
On 4/22/21 2:29 AM, wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote: On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now. That was not the point of my "proposal". I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding warrant. If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine, arrest the person. If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be guilty of and receive a ticket. I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common sense. But the ability of the police to arrest you for something else in your record that had nothing to do with the reason for stopping the person in the first place, will result in these shootings and killings to continue. Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony. Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony. Failure to pay child support is not a death penalty crime. If someone is guilty of the above, they should be located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems too often escalates into a shooting. I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just trying to think of ways to keep people alive. Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring, and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently, and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the public or the police is obvious and imminent. George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely. Period. The jury's verdict was completely justified. My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the thinking that they have been accustom to. I was simply trying to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis. Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago? Very little to no media coverage about it. Why? No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an "airsoft" pistol at him. If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also. https://eu.novritsch.com/product/novritsch-ssp1-airsoft-pistol/ I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to drill for their real firearm. OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot and they look pretty real too if you don't get close. If you point a gun at a cop, even a toy gun that looks realistic, you deserve what you get. I've only seen a couple of "Airsoft" pistols, and they look like the real deal. If your wallet, comb, cellphone, et cetera, in your hand, however, you do not deserve to be shot by a cop. Part of the job of a cop is to be damned sure of what you are doing in regard to using deadly force. It is part of the risk of the job.-- * Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. *

Why do you find it so difficult to do your job of paying your taxes.
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html

wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that
seem to be
constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions
that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that
result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that
caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be
very useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal
in searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops
surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be
moved safely. Period.



The jury's verdict was completely justified.

My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the
thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying
to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling
that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis.

Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and
killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago?

Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why?

No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an
"airsoft" pistol at him.

If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also.

https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/

I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are
willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned
realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to
drill for their real firearm.
OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot
and they look pretty real too if you don't get close.


Couple years ago, a kid in Santa Rosa was shot and killed by a cop. He
pointed an air soft AR look alike at the cop. Had taken a sharpie and
blacked out the required orange tip of the barrel. Don’t blame a cop in
that situation.

On 4/22/21 12:27 PM, Bill wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that
seem to be
constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions
that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that
result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that
caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be
very useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal
in searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops
surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be
moved safely. Period.



The jury's verdict was completely justified.

My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the
thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying
to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling
that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis.

Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and
killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago?

Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why?

No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an
"airsoft" pistol at him.

If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also.

https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/

I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are
willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned
realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to
drill for their real firearm.
OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot
and they look pretty real too if you don't get close.


Couple years ago, a kid in Santa Rosa was shot and killed by a cop. He
pointed an air soft AR look alike at the cop. Had taken a sharpie and
blacked out the required orange tip of the barrel. Don’t blame a cop in
that situation.


Agreed.

--
* Lock up Trump and his family of grifters. *

Alex Wrote in message:r
True North wrote: On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 13:16:48 UTC-3, justan wrote: "Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very useful. I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it should be under investigation and pursuit by other means. It very well could be. Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns. It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a busted taillight. Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in searching the law enforcement's data base for warrants. -- Freedom Isn't Free! You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.That was not the point of my "proposal".I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot becausethey are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to boltbecause the police then attempt to arrest for an outstandingwarrant.If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,arrest the person.If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags orinspection sticker ... that's the offense they should beguilty of and receive a ticket.I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not commonsense. But the ability of the police to arrestyou for something else in your record that had nothingto do with the reason for stopping the person in thefirst place, will result in theseshootings and killings to continue.Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.Failure to pay child support is not a deathpenalty crime.If someone is guilty of the above, they should belocated and arrested on the merit of the outstandingwarrant, not for a traffic violation that it seemstoo often escalates into a shooting.I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into ascrewed-up screaming liberal like some. Justtrying to think of ways to keep people alive.-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com EDUCATION for everyone: Teach folks to respect police. Teach folks to respect each other. Teach them to respect the law. Teach them to not resist arrest. Teach them not to run. Teach them how not to be shot during a police stop. Teach them "If you do the crime prepare to do the time" Help the police help you stay alive and safe. Just a thought from sunny,warm Florida :-) -- Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet? ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html Awful lot of "them" in there. Why did you change from "folks" to "them"?What's the difference? You must be a racist to come to that conclusion.

Donnie is as dumb as a box of rocks. He may be racist too. Don't
know, dont care.
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html

"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r
On 4/21/2021 4:55 PM, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road searching for him. That doesn't mean the killer couldn't be caught while stopped for an infraction. Suppose a felony warrant is discovered at a sobriety checkpoint?John, I am not debating the logic or reasoning of running checks if stopped for a traffic violation.I am questioning using them as a racially profiling tool due to thenumber of unnecessary shootings and deaths. I've heard all thearguments .... "Don't resist and you won't get shot" ... and Ifundamentally agree with them.But I am not black or a minority. (as far as I know) :-)-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg.com

You are a white American American. You are a minority.
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html

On Thursday, 22 April 2021 at 14:42:46 UTC-3, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" Wrote in message:r
On 4/21/2021 4:55 PM, John wrote: On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote: On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in deaths. My thought: When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction, he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for the outstanding bench warrant. This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results. This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done". Maybe that needs to change. What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped? The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for anything else, based on the officer's suspicions. If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being the issue.. Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted. Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc) They are not going to give that up. Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and a smile on his face? Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road searching for him. That doesn't mean the killer couldn't be caught while stopped for an infraction. Suppose a felony warrant is discovered at a sobriety checkpoint?John, I am not debating the logic or reasoning of running checks if stopped for a traffic violation.I am questioning using them as a racially profiling tool due to thenumber of unnecessary shootings and deaths. I've heard all thearguments .... "Don't resist and you won't get shot" ... and Ifundamentally agree with them.But I am not black or a minority. (as far as I know) :-)-- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.https://www.avg..com

You are a white American American. You are a minority.
--
Thanks Donald. Do you miss him yet?


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazon...net/index.html


What's "a white American American"
More of your racist leanings, Justine?

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 08:38:31 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/22/21 2:33 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 16:58:51 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 20:53:04 UTC-3, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 11:09:22 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem
to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be very
useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal in
searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense. But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some. Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops surrounding
him. He should have remained there until he was able to be moved safely.
Period.
George Floyd could have said he gives up and he will get in the car at
any time. It would have ended then. He chose to continue to resist and
refused to get in the car.


Appears the jury didn't agree with you.

The question of whether Floyd was still resisting getting in the car
never came up. It really didn't matter tho because there was so much
pressure on that jury to convict, the outcome was predetermined. That
is why I expect the appeal to succeed.
That will be a year or two away and everyone will have forgotten about
the late lamented Mr Floyd and nobody will notice what happens to
Chauvin.


Apparently you have not watched the nine minute video of Chauvin
crushing the life out of Floyd, who was handcuffed on the pavement.

All I got out of that video was why they hell were they ****ing around
with this thug. In DC a wagon would have pulled up and 2 or 3 cops
would have picked him up and threw him in the back of the wagon.
In Baltimore they would have killed him on the "rough" wagon ride ;-)

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 16:27:13 -0000 (UTC), Bill
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 19:07:45 -0400, John wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 18:52:54 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 4/21/21 6:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/21/2021 11:09 AM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 4/21/21 9:37 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 4/20/2021 7:27 PM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:20:01 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 6:51 AM, John wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that
seem to be
constantly in the news.Â* The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions
that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that
result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID.Â* That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person.Â* If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that
caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever.Â* It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

If the warrant is for a violent crime, it's knowledge might be
very useful.

I understand but if there is a warrant issued for a violent crime it
should be under investigation and pursuit by other means.

It very well could be.

Some kind of compromise is needed to stop the "profiling" concerns.

It's also consistent with law that a stop for one infraction isn't
cause for arrest for another. A database search is convenient but
not necessarily legal, especially if the initial infraction is a
busted taillight.

Do they issue warrants for such offenses? I can see nothing illegal
in searching
the law enforcement's data base for warrants.
--

Freedom Isn't Free!



You are all arguing the policies police can use as they exist now.

That was not the point of my "proposal".

I was trying to address the issue of people getting shot because
they are stopped for a minor infraction and then try to bolt
because the police then attempt to arrest for an outstanding
warrant.

If the stop was *because* of the outstanding warrant ... fine,
arrest the person.

If the stop was for a broken taillight, expired tags or
inspection sticker ... that's the offense they should be
guilty of and receive a ticket.

I know this doesn't make sense to most. It's not common
sense.Â* But the ability of the police to arrest
you for something else in your record that had nothing
to do with the reason for stopping the person in the
first place, will result in these
shootings and killings to continue.

Attempted robbery is not a death sentence felony.
Drug dealing is not a death sentence felony.
Failure to pay child support is not a death
penalty crime.

If someone is guilty of the above, they should be
located and arrested on the merit of the outstanding
warrant, not for a traffic violation that it seems
too often escalates into a shooting.

I am not "anti-police" nor am I turning into a
screwed-up screaming liberal like some.Â* Just
trying to think of ways to keep people alive.




Part of the answer may be found in "policing" the recruiting, hiring,
and training practices of police departments, and ensuring that they
operate in a civilized way that treats everyone encountered decently,
and that maximum force is used only when the physical danger to the
public or the police is obvious and imminent.

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground with four cops
surrounding him. He should have remained there until he was able to be
moved safely. Period.



The jury's verdict was completely justified.

My "proposal" obviously makes little sense if one stays in the
thinking that they have been accustom to.Â* I was simply trying
to think outside the box a little to address racial profiling
that I am 100 percent convinced occurs on a regular basis.

Did you hear or read about the Maryland state cop that shot and
killed a teenage white female a couple of weeks ago?

Very little to no media coverage about it.Â* Why?

No, but I did read of a state trooper here who shot a kit who pointed an
"airsoft" pistol at him.

If one of these were pointed at me, I'd shoot also.

https://eu.novritsch.com/product/nov...irsoft-pistol/

I found myself looking at airsoft guns the other day and if you are
willing to spend over $100 for a CO2 version, they get damned
realistic, right down to the operating controls. People use them to
drill for their real firearm.
OTOH I ended up with a couple of cheap plastic ones in an auction lot
and they look pretty real too if you don't get close.


Couple years ago, a kid in Santa Rosa was shot and killed by a cop. He
pointed an air soft AR look alike at the cop. Had taken a sharpie and
blacked out the required orange tip of the barrel. Don’t blame a cop in
that situation.

I wouldn't even expect the cop to see the orange tip if it was bad
light and things were happening fast.
IMHO these things should be all orange.

On 4/21/2021 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:41:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 4/20/2021 4:23 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 06:30:56 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Been thinking about the race related violence and deaths that seem to be
constantly in the news. The media is fixated on the issue of racial
profiling of minorities, especially black folks who are often being
singled out for stopping by police for minor traffic infractions that
escalate into arrests, resisting and too often violence that result in
deaths.

My thought:


When a officer stops a vehicle for a minor traffic infraction,
he or she runs a "check" via radio on the driver's (and sometimes
passenger's) license or ID. That check automatically includes a
search for any outstanding warrants for that person. If a warrant
exists, the person is often cuffed and arrested .... not for the
minor traffic infraction that they were stopped for ... but for
the outstanding bench warrant.

This often turns into resisting arrest with violent results.

This is standard operating procedure for law enforcement.
Not blaming them ... it's just "how it's done".

Maybe that needs to change.

What if outstanding warrants were not automatically included in
the "check" at the time of the vehicle being stopped?

The stop should be only related to the crime or infraction that caused
the police to stop the person, be it for speeding, a broken
tail light or whatever. It should not be an excuse to check for
anything else, based on the officer's suspicions.

If a person has an outstanding warrant, the search for him or her
is a different issue altogether and other means of apprehending
the person should be used, specifically with the warrant being
the issue.

Cops would be quick to point out, traffic stops solve more felonies
and result in more felony arrests than detective work. Without traffic
stops about half of the drug war wouldn't be able to be prosecuted.
Cops call a traffic stop a "tool", AKA a way to get around your
rights. (searches, interrogations without Miranda etc)
They are not going to give that up.

Look at it another way. If they catch a wanted serial killer on a
traffic stop, do you want him driving away with a speeding ticket and
a smile on his face?



Every case of a serial killer on the loose that I've read about
results in a dedicated and massive manhunt for the
person. Cops don't start stopping every car on the road
searching for him.

You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene?

Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets
stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there.

They will even stop vehicles towing boats coming up out of the keys
during mini season looking for illegal lobsters.

You give up many rights as soon as you get in your car and the courts
uphold it. I think a lot of it is wrong but I have to live in the
world we have, not the one Jefferson dreamed of.



Difference is in your statement:

"You have never heard about a roadblock perimeter around a crime scene?
Hell they set up roadblocks to look for drunk drivers. Everyone gets
stopped and interrogated. There is no presumption of innocence there.

"Everyone" isn't a search via racial profiling.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com