Here's some information about a boat that is one of several popular brands used
in the Pacific NW. It's the text from a magazine article that will be out next
week.
(Posting these here usually brings out a few flamers, and there's been so much
hateful spite posted to the group lately that I guess I'm offering this "on
topic" item against my better judgment. Sorry to all if it brings out the worst
in a few folks, this is not intended to be a troll.)

C-Dory 25


There's a special reason that C-Dory is the subject of our December Sea Trial
article. The days are short and dark, and an icy breeze is frequently whipping
the chop to a foaming froth. Some owners of 30-foot, 40-foot, and larger boats
would never consider venturing away from the dock. "Too rough!" they'll say.
When those of us with perhaps less sense make a rare venture out, we won't
encounter many pleasure cruisers, (unless involved with a holiday parade). What
we will see, in abundance, are the iron-willed salmon anglers trolling
patiently through the wind and slop. The fishermen use a wide variety of
vessels, and one of the saltier looking lines of boats is C-Dory. C-Dory boats
are a local product, built in Kent.

C-Dory boats are all designed for outboard power. The C-Dory factory recommends
Honda motors, but will mount another brand on a presold order upon specific
customer request. C-Dorys are trailerable, and have traditionally been offered
in 16, 19, and 22-foot sizes. The 25-foot Cruiser is the newly introduced
flagship of the line, and will allow C-Dory to compete with a larger group of
manufacturers. One certain market for the larger C-Dory will be present owners
desiring to trade-up from the smaller boats. C-Dory owners are often very
enthused with the product, and frequently schedule informal rendezvous to
compare notes, boats, and share general good times.

C-Dory arranged for us to take a trial run out of Des Moines Marina with just
such a step-up buyer, Dick Espe. Dick proved to be interesting in his own
right, and he shared his boat ownership story with us.

"This is my second C-Dory," said Dick. "I got the boating bug when I was in the
Coast Guard. Not long after I enlisted, I helped take a big cutter up to
Ketchikan and I fell in love with Alaska. I promised myself that if I ever got
to the point where I could afford to have my own boat, I was going to duplicate
that Coast Guard cruise up the coast. It took a while, but I finally did get my
own boat, a 22-foot C-Dory. I decided that I wanted something slightly bigger
for the Alaska cruise, and something with a regular marine head rather than a
porta-pottie. I was sure pleased when they came out with the 25-footer, it's
exactly the boat I need to make my voyage to Alaska."

"I won't be going to Alaska until 2005," continued Espe. "I recently got laid
off from Boeing, and I've gone back to college to learn to be a massage
therapist. My massage classes run through the summer of 2004 and it will be too
late in the year to leave when they are finished."

Dick's story is particularly remarkable due to the many years he has kept his
dream alive, and his energized resiliency at an age when many folks are dialing
back a bit. Dick was 17 years old when he took his Coast Guard cruise to
Ketchikan, (in 1947).


Dick's 25-footer is powered by twin 90HP Honda 4-strokes. He has rigged some
canvas over a portion of the cockpit, and attached some downrigger mounts. Dick
is an avid fisherman, and he is pleased to report that his 25-footer is a
"lucky" boat. ("Last fish I caught was about twenty pounds"). The twin Hondas
started up with the normal amount of routine fiddling and struggling most
boaters expect with Honda outboards- none.
Engine noise was scarcely detectable as we idled out of the Des Moines Marina.

The C-Dory hull is designed with a high, chop-busting, deep-V bow that
transitions to a flat bottom aft. One of C-Dory's traditional attributes much
appreciated by the owner base is the ease with which the bottom profile enables
the boat to get on plane. The combination of high bow and flat bottom allows a
C-Dory boater to adopt differing running styles based on conditions. "I was out
here last weekend," said Dick, "and the waves were three-footers and more. The
boat does just fine in that kind of situation, provided that you slow down
below planing speeds. I was probably doing about 7 miles an hour, and the boat
handled the weather perfectly."

Conditions for our trial run were more benign that those Dick had recently
encountered. Winds were 10 knots or less, and seas were less than one foot. We
took advantage of the opportunity to bring the boat up to speed. The GPS read
25 mph at 4200 RPM, 34 mph at 5000, and just over 40 mph at 5500. Unlike many
of the unsold boats we get to test, Dick's boat was full of fuel, water, and
personal gear and the performance numbers can be considered "real world"
figures.

Steering was responsive, and maneuverability fast and precise. We carved some
relatively tight circles at speeds above 30 mph. Slowed to trolling pace, the
25 C-Dory can almost pirouette.

At the very fastest speeds, the C-Dory seemed to have a "busy" ride. Dick's
observation about tailoring the C-Dory's speed to sea conditions proved to be
well founded. We rode very comfortably at speeds near 30 mph, certainly slower
than the boat is capable of turning, but a speed that seemed prudent at the
time. Running at 40 under the prevailing conditions certainly did not seem
unsafe or dangerous, but notably noisier and bouncier than when throttled back.
It would be difficult to consider the bouncy ride near WOT a negative factor.
In a world where the glass can be half-full or half-empty, it's more important
to note that we were able to run at some very decent speeds in slightly lumpy
seas. The 40-mph range would probably have been a rock stable ride as well if
conditions had been completely calm.

Between the available waves, a few timely wakes, and some tricky turns we were
able to experience the effect of moderate seas from a variety of angles. Head
seas were handled easily, without undue lifting of the bow. Beam seas were
civilized, with the low center of gravity reducing the rolling moment.
Following seas were a non-event; (as Dick observed, "Following seas just seem
to slip right under the boat!")

Fishermen will appreciate the 25-foot C-Dory for the same virtues extolled by
the owners of smaller C-dory boats. Here's a boat that can get you out to the
fishing grounds rather quickly, will take care of you if conditions crumb up
somewhat, and will keep you dry and comfortable between hook-ups. The
trailerability makes it extremely easy to chase halibut in the Pacific, salmon
in Puget Sound, or even haul over the pass to look for lunker trout on major
lakes in Eastern Washington.

Fuel capacity is 100 gallons, enabling acceptable range at moderate speeds.

There's more to a C-Dory than simply a great fishing platform. The boats have
developed a reputation for comfortable and reliable "couples cruising" in the
Northwest. Some boaters might be surprised at Dick Espe's plan to run to
Ketchikan in his new 25-footer, but the concept wouldn't seem at all unusual to
veteran C-Dory enthusiasts.

The 25-footer is the most "cruiseable" C-Dory yet. Boaters up to 6'3" tall can
stretch out in the V berth under the foredeck. C-Dory has provided lights,
vents, and other amenities to make the cabin area comfortable. A recess between
the bunk cushions looks as though it might have been intended for a chemical
toilet, but Dick had C-Dory add a vertical filler for the forward bulkhead in
the main cabin to convert this space to stowage.

A convertible dinette in the main cabin folds out to a double berth. The helm
is to starboard, as is the galley. Standard galley amenities include a
stainless steel sink, an ice box, and a two-burner alcohol stove. Boaters as
interested in vacation cruising as in fishing might consider upgrading the
icebox to an optional refrigerator, and opting for a Wallas diesel stove and
heater instead. The Wallas will be more pleasant to cook with, and can keep the
interior of the C-Dory 25 toasty and warm during chilly weather.

The C-Dory 25 incorporates a standard marine head with holding tank, as well as
a stand up shower. Dick Espe is right, both features would be welcome amenities
on a two or three-week cruise.

One of the benefits of considering a locally manufactured product is the easy
accessibility of the factory. We have toured the C-Dory plant, and were
impressed with the construction processes we observed.

The 25-foot C-Dory is a balsa-cored FRP composite. The hull is entirely hand
laid fabric roving, without the use of any "chop-gun" buildup. The hull is
designed to be stiff enough that interior bracing and floorboards are not
required. A C-Dory is built from just two major layups. The hull is laid up in
one mold, and the deck and the house in another.
The two sections are glassed together before either mold is removed to assure
more accurate alignment and to prevent any stressing or tweaking resulting from
handling unsupported components during assembly.

Without motor(s) or trailer, the suggested retail price on a 2004 25-foot
C-Dory is $48,775. Adding every single option on the list (including a 15HP
Honda "kicker" motor for trolling) would bring the tab for a fully-loaded
C-Dory, ready for engines and possibly a trailer, to a number in the high 50's.
Not bad for a well-made and versatile fishing and cruising boat, seaworthy
enough for a summer cruise to Alaska.

There's more to a C-Dory than simply a great fishing platform. The boats
have
developed a reputation for comfortable and reliable "couples cruising" in
the
Northwest. Some boaters might be surprised at Dick Espe's plan to run to
Ketchikan in his new 25-footer, but the concept wouldn't seem at all
unusual to
veteran C-Dory enthusiasts.

Another good story. Thanks for sharing it.

Have you read "River Horse" by William Least Heat-Moon? It's about his
"voyage across America" in a 1995 22' C-Dory. He started from Manhattan and
cruised (nearly) all the way across the U.S. to the mouth of the Columbia
River. It's a good read.

On 13 Nov 2003 04:26:55 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
(Posting these here usually brings out a few flamers, and there's been so much
hateful spite posted to the group lately that I guess I'm offering this "on
topic" item against my better judgment. Sorry to all if it brings out the worst
in a few folks, this is not intended to be a troll.)
==============================================

Chuck, I enjoy your boat reviews but feel obliged to comment once in a
while in the interest of journalistic accuracy. Sorry if that
offends, but at least you know someone is paying attention. :-)
And believe me, this is not my "worst", not even close.

First point is minor but oft repeated in the marine press: Boat
speeds for salt water boats should be quoted in knots, not mph. Who
says? I do, it's just common practice to do salt water navigation in
nautical miles, and that's how speed should be quoted also. A cynic
would say that manufacturers like their mph numbers better because
they are 15% faster. Some boats need that boost to look respectable
but not this one.

Second point, it is unrealistic (and misleading) to review the boat
with a specific engine configuration, and then quote a price at the
end of the article with out engines. I'm guessing that the price as
tested was at least $70,000. That's quite a jump from $49,999 or
whatever. Even the car magazines, which are not exactly a bastion of
impartiality, quote prices "as tested". If they can do it, you can
too.

Minor quibbles perhaps but repeated so often throughout the marine
press that it is hardly coincidence. And in the end, it only casts
suspicions upon the reviewers motives and their relationships with the
manufacturers.

Chuck,
I was gonna flame your arse, but the personal contributions you give to
the NG pretty much negate it.
C-Dory's a great boat, No doubt, and the owner/loyalty story behind it
stands out.
Good Review, Thanks, UD

Have you read "River Horse" by William Least Heat-Moon? It's about his
"voyage across America" in a 1995 22' C-Dory. He started from Manhattan and
cruised (nearly) all the way across the U.S. to the mouth of the Columbia
River. It's a good read.










So I've heard. I should check it out and see. One of our local boaters has
written a book about running to AK in a Bayliner Trophy. ("Day by Day to
Alaska" by Dale Petersen). It is amazing what you can do with a small boat if
you are smart and careful, and wait for a weather window. He has run the
"outside" of the Queen Charlottes in this boat.

First point is minor but oft repeated in the marine press: Boat
speeds for salt water boats should be quoted in knots, not mph.

I agree. However, Dick had his plotter reading in MPH and I also agree that
it's a very minor point. I reported what I saw, which was a GPS reading in MPH.

Second point, it is unrealistic (and misleading) to review the boat
with a specific engine configuration, and then quote a price at the
end of the article with out engines.

Well, we disagree on that point. It *would* be misleading to describe the boat,
quote a price and conveniently forget to mention that the figure doesn't
include engines. However, that isn't how the article reads.
C-Dory recommends Honda engines, but a buyer is free to specify any brand of
engine and C-Dory will rig the boat accordingly. Since there are any number of
engines a buyer *could* choose, the price with engiens will be all over the
map. The perspective is that there are at least two separate shopping
decisions, the boat is one- the engines another- and maybe a trailer for the
third.

I'm guessing that the price as
tested was at least $70,000. That's quite a jump from $49,999 or
whatever. Even the car magazines, which are not exactly a bastion of
impartiality, quote prices "as tested". If they can do it, you can
too.

My statement, "if you bought every single item on the options list the total
would be in the high 50's" (without engines) is absolutely accurate. I think
C-Dory has their price llist on line- check it and see. What is not accurate is
your assumption that the *real* figure must be $70,000. The owner had some
personal gear and electronics aboard that
were custom ad-ons, but except for some canvas, those items weren't included in
the description. (Everybody expects to pay for custom canvas).

Chuck, I enjoy your boat reviews but feel obliged to comment once in a
while in the interest of journalistic accuracy. Sorry if that
offends, but at least you know someone is paying attention. :-)
And believe me, this is not my "worst", not even close.

Nor did I have you in mind when I commented I was half reluctant to post this
item. Your critique is objective, not based on a bunch of wild,
unsubstantiated, acrimonious, personal allegations. That's what a discussion is
about, looking at an idea from several perspectives.

On 13 Nov 2003 15:36:20 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
Well, we disagree on that point. It *would* be misleading to describe the boat,
quote a price and conveniently forget to mention that the figure doesn't
include engines. However, that isn't how the article reads.

That wouldn't be misleading, it would be totally inaccurate.
Misleading, to me, is more subtle, an attempt to shape perception by
shading information in a way to make it look more favorable.

C-Dory recommends Honda engines, but a buyer is free to specify any brand of
engine and C-Dory will rig the boat accordingly. Since there are any number of
engines a buyer *could* choose, the price with engiens will be all over the
map. The perspective is that there are at least two separate shopping
decisions, the boat is one- the engines another- and maybe a trailer for the
third.

That is true, but when you present a detailed review of a boat, with
detailed performance and configuration information, the natural
question for an interested reader is: "How much is that going to cost
me?".

Unfortunately you don't provide an answer, and that is my issue. I
think it's reasonable for the reader to expect an approximate "as
tested" price, and I don't think the manufacturer should have a
problem with you providing one. It's the manufacturer's job to sell
boats, your job is to sell magazines (and advertising of course).