Don't forget the first manned flight in the British Empire.
This happened on the Bras d'Or Lakes, Cape Breton Nova Scotia. Feb 23 1909
Those yankee Wright Brothers probably spied and stole Bell's plans so they
could get it up first. :-)

In article ,
says...
jps wrote:

Is being a snob about anything dumb or is it just wine and beer?

Bottled water, maybe?

I myself am somewhat of a snob about boats, but more in regard to how they are kept
& operated rather than size or expense.

DSK


Well then, you should allow for snobbery in beer since there is great
craft in the brewing process.

There's beers in the NW (and elsewhere) that absolutely kick ass. These
aren't your run of the mill thrown down on a hot day or after a hard rub
on the boat. These are finely crafted beers that are nice to savor.

While I understand your disinterest in craft beers, slagging fans as
snobs for appreciating the quality of the product is no different from
beer lovers slagging you for your admiration of particular boats.

I wouldn't slag you for either.

Well then, you should allow for snobbery in beer since there is great
craft in the brewing process.


Not much craft once the recipe is complete. The process itself is very
simple.
It's more about quality of ingredients and repeatability.

Most mass produced beers in Canada, *and* the US suck.
That being said, if I were forced to drink either, I'd rather drink the
watery US beer than the skunky Canadian.

"Jim Carter" wrote in message t.cable.rogers.com...

SO, WHAT DO CANADIANS HAVE TO BE PROUD OF?

That you are all still considered "subjects" of the "Queen" of England?

13. We have the largest English population that never ever surrendered or
withdrew during any war to anyone. anywhere. EVER.

Too funny, you still refer to yourselves as "english", or even worse, as "french".
--
SJM

From: "Jim Carter"

13. We have the largest English population that never ever surrendered
or
withdrew during any war to anyone. anywhere. EVER.

See below:


The Raid on Dieppe: August 19, 1942
The Allied situation in the spring of 1942 was grim. The Germans had
penetrated deep into Russia, the British Eighth Army in North Africa had been
forced back into Egypt, and in Western Europe the Allied forces faced the
Germans across the English Channel.
Since the time was not yet ripe for mounting Operation Overlord, the full-scale
invasion of Western Europe, the Allies decided to mount a major raid on the
French port of Dieppe. Designed to foster German fears of an attack in the west
and compel them to strengthen their Channel defences at the expense of other
areas of operation, the raid would also provide an opportunity to test new
techniques and equipment, and be the means to gain the experience and knowledge
necessary for planning the great amphibious assault.

Accordingly, plans were drawn up for a large-scale raid to take place in July
1942. It was called Operation Rutter. Canadians would provide the main assault
force, and by May 20 troops of the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division were on the
Isle of Wight to begin intensive training in amphibious operations. When
unfavourable weather in July prevented Rutter from being launched, it was urged
that the idea of a raid should be abandoned. However, the operation was revived
and given the new code name Jubilee. The port of Dieppe on the French coast
remained the objective.

The attack upon Dieppe took place on August 19, 1942. The troops involved
totaled 6,100 of whom roughly 5,000 were Canadians, the remainder being British
Commandos and 50 American Rangers. The raid was supported by eight Allied
destroyers and 74 Allied air squadrons (eight belonging to the RCAF). Major
General J.H. Roberts, the Commander of the 2nd Canadian Division, was appointed
Military Force Commander, with Captain J. Hughes-Hallett, R.N. as Naval Force
Commander and Air Vice Marshal T.L. Leigh-Mallory as Air Force Commander.

The plan called for attacks at five different points on a front of roughly 16
kilometres. Four simultaneous flank attacks were to go in just before dawn,
followed half an hour later by the main attack on the town of Dieppe itself.
Canadians would form the force for the frontal attack on Dieppe and would also
go in at gaps in the cliffs at Pourville four kilometres to the west, and at
Puys to the east. British commandos were assigned to destroy the coastal
batteries at Berneval on the eastern flank, and at Varengeville in the west.

As the assault force approached the coast of France in the early hours of
August 19, the landing craft of the eastern sector unexpectedly encountered a
small German convoy. The noise of the sharp violent sea fight which followed
alerted coastal defences, particularly at Berneval and Puys, leaving little
chance of success in this sector. The craft carrying No. 3 Commando were
scattered and most of the unit never reached shore. Those who did were quickly
overwhelmed. One small party of 20 commandos managed to get within 180 metres
of the battery and by accurate sniping prevented the guns from firing on the
assault ships for two-and-one-half vital hours before they were safely
evacuated.

At Puys the Royal Regiment of Canada shared in the ill-fortune. The beach there
was extremely narrow and was commanded by lofty cliffs where German soldiers
were strategically placed. Success depended on surprise and darkness, neither
of which prevailed. The naval landing was delayed, and as the Royals leapt
ashore in the growing light they met violent machine-gun fire from the
fully-alerted German soldiers. Only a few men were able to get over the heavily
wired seawall at the head of the beach; those who did were unable to get back.
The rest of the troops, together with three platoons of reinforcements from the
Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) of Canada, were pinned on the beach by
mortar and machine-gun fire, and were later forced to surrender. Evacuation was
impossible in the face of German fire. Of those who landed, 200 were killed and
20 died later of their wounds; the rest were taken prisoner the heaviest toll
suffered by a Canadian battalion in a single day throughout the entire war.
Failure to clear the eastern headland enabled the Germans to enfilade the
Dieppe beaches and nullify the main frontal attack.

In the western sector, meanwhile, some degree of surprise was achieved. In
contrast to the misfortune encountered by No. 3 on the east flank, the No. 4
Commando operation was completely successful. According to plan, the unit went
in, successfully destroyed the guns in the battery near Varengeville, and then
withdrew safely.

At Pourville, the Canadians were fortunate enough to achieve some degree of
surprise, and initial opposition was light as the South Saskatchewan Regiment
and Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders of Canada assaulted the beaches. Resistance
stiffened as they crossed the River Scie and pushed towards Dieppe proper.
Heavy fighting then developed and the Saskatchewans, and the Camerons who
supported them, were stopped well short of the town. The main force of the
Camerons, meanwhile, pushed on towards their objective, an inland airfield, and
advanced some three kilometres before they too were forced to halt.

The Canadians lost heavily during the withdrawal. The enemy was able to bring
fierce fire to bear upon the beach from dominating positions east of Pourville,
and also from the high ground to the west. However, the landing craft came in
through the storm of fire with self-sacrificing gallantry and, supported by a
courageous rearguard, the greater part of both units successfully re-embarked
though many of the men were wounded. The rearguard itself could not be brought
off and, when ammunition ran out and further evacuation was impossible,
surrendered.

The main attack was to be made across the pebble beach in front of Dieppe and
timed to take place a half-hour later than on the flanks. German soldiers,
concealed in clifftop positions and in buildings overlooking the promenade,
waited. As the men of the Essex Scottish Regiment assaulted the open eastern
section, the enemy swept the beach with machine-gun fire. All attempts to
breach the seawall were beaten back with grievous loss. When one small party
managed to infiltrate the town, a misleading message was received aboard the
headquarters ship which suggested that the Essex Scottish were making headway.
Thus, the reserve battalion Les Fusiliers Mont Royal was sent in. They, like
their comrades who had landed earlier, found themselves pinned down on the
beach and exposed to intense enemy fire.

The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry landed at the west end of the promenade
opposite a large isolated casino. They were able to clear this strongly-held
building and the nearby pillboxes and some men of the battalion got across the
bullet-swept boulevard and into the town, where they were engaged in vicious
street fighting.

Misfortune also attended the landing of the tanks of the Calgary Regiment.
Timed to follow an air and naval bombardment, they were put ashore ten to
fifteen minutes late, thus leaving the infantry without support during the
first critical minutes of the attack. Then as the tanks came ashore, they met
an inferno of fire and were brought to a halt stopped not only by enemy guns,
but also immobilized by the shingle banks and seawall. Those that negotiated
the seawall found their way blocked by concrete obstacles which sealed off the
narrow streets. Nevertheless, the immobilized tanks continued to fight,
supporting the infantry and contributing greatly to the withdrawal of many of
them; the tank crews became prisoners or died in battle.

The last troops to land were part of the Royal Marine "A" Commando, which
shared the terrible fate of the Canadians. They suffered heavy losses without
being able to accomplish their mission.

The raid also produced a tremendous air battle. While the Allied air forces
were able to provide protection from the Luftwaffe for the ships off Dieppe,
the cost was high. The Royal Air Force lost 106 aircraft which was to be the
highest single-day total of the war. The RCAF loss was 13 aircraft.

By early afternoon, Operation Jubilee was over. Conflicting assessments of the
value of the raid continue to be presented. Some claim that it was a useless
slaughter; others maintain that it was necessary to the successful invasion of
the continent two years later on D-Day. The Dieppe Raid was closely studied by
those responsible for planning future operations against the enemy-held coast
of France. Out of it came improvements in technique, fire support and tactics
which reduced D-Day casualties to an unexpected minimum. The men who perished
at Dieppe were instrumental in saving countless lives on the 6th of June, 1944.
While there can be no doubt that valuable lessons were learned, a frightful
price was paid in those morning hours of August 19, 1942. Of the 4,963
Canadians who embarked for the operation only 2,210 returned to England, and
many of these were wounded. There were 3,367 casualties, including 1,946
prisoners of war; 907 Canadians lost their lives.


It would seem to this observer that Canadians did indeed surrender and were
forced to withdraw although in fairness it was planned to withdraw forces after
the raid so in essence your statement is untrue.

150 days to go..

jps wrote:


Well then, you should allow for snobbery in beer since there is great
craft in the brewing process.

But it makes no difference, it's all a matter of what you like or don't.

No point in being snobby that your beer is better than mine, it all ends up in the same
place.

DSK

"Jim Carter" wrote in message . rogers.com...

reply.....No, there were no Canadian troops at Dunkirk. Canadian troops
were garrison in England at the time of Dunkirk.

Any Canadian troops at the Fall of Singapore, the worst overseas
defeat in your colonial master's military history?
--
SJM

"Joe" wrote in message .. .
Well then, you should allow for snobbery in beer since there is great
craft in the brewing process.


Not much craft once the recipe is complete. The process itself is very
simple.
It's more about quality of ingredients and repeatability.

That shows what YOU know about brewing beer, absolutely NOTHING.
Brewing is quite complex. Ever made beer from all grain? Ever, by
trial and error make your OWN recipe, again, by all grain extraction
methods? Didn't think so.

Most mass produced beers in Canada, *and* the US suck.
That being said, if I were forced to drink either, I'd rather drink the
watery US beer than the skunky Canadian.

Not all Canadian beer is "skunky", as well as not all U.S. beer
is"watery".

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Joe" wrote in message
.. .
Well then, you should allow for snobbery in beer since there is great
craft in the brewing process.


Not much craft once the recipe is complete. The process itself is very
simple.
It's more about quality of ingredients and repeatability.

That shows what YOU know about brewing beer, absolutely NOTHING.
Brewing is quite complex. Ever made beer from all grain? Ever, by
trial and error make your OWN recipe, again, by all grain extraction
methods? Didn't think so.


My God, do you ever read for content? I said not much craft *once* the
recipe is complete.
Of course there is some craft in the creation of a recipe (though even this
is drastically reduced with the new brewing software's available) but once
the recipe is complete it becomes a simple matter of duplication.
Brewing nowadays is more a science than craft.


Most mass produced beers in Canada, *and* the US suck.
That being said, if I were forced to drink either, I'd rather drink the
watery US beer than the skunky Canadian.

Not all Canadian beer is "skunky", as well as not all U.S. beer
is"watery".

I agree not all are, but IMO most mass produced beers from Canada are skunky
and most from America watery.
Micro's are a whole different story.

Been to the moon lately?

and,,,,

I don't drink beer.... I prefer Jack Daniels.. I believe that is made
here in the Good ole' US. I have had Canadian whiskey. It's ok..
I guess.

db

p.s. Bell was swiss.


"Jim Carter" wrote in message
.cable.rogers.com...

SO, WHAT DO CANADIANS HAVE TO BE PROUD OF?

1. Smarties
2. Crispy Crunch, Coffee Crisp
3. The size of our footballs fields and one less down
4. Baseball is Canadian
5. Lacrosse is Canadian
6. Hockey is Canadian
7. Basketball is Canadian
8. Apple pie is Canadian
9. Mr. Dress-up kicks Mr. Rogers ass
10. Tim Hortons kicks Dunkin' Donuts ass
11. In the war of 1812, started by America, Canadians pushed the
Americans
back...past their 'White House'. Then we burned it...and most of
Washington,
under the command of William Lyon MaKenzie King who was insane and
hammered
all the time. We got bored because they ran away, so we came home and
partied...Go figure..
12. Canada has the largest French population that never surrendered to
Germany.
13. We have the largest English population that never ever surrendered or
withdrew during any war to anyone. anywhere. EVER.
14. Our civil war was fought in a bar and it lasted a little over an
hour.
15. The only person who was arrested in our civil war was an American
mercenary, who slept in and missed the whole thing... but showed up just
in
time to get caught.
16. We knew plaid was cool far before Seattle caught on.
17. The Hudsons Bay Company once owned over 10% of the earth's surface
and
is still around as the worlds oldest company.
18. The average dog sled team can kill and devour a full grown human in
under 3 minutes.
19. We still know what to do with all the parts of a buffalo.
20. We don't marry our kin-folk.
21. We invented ski-doos, jet-skis, velcro, zippers, insulin, penicillin,
zambonis, the telephone and short wave radios that save countless lives
each
year.
22. We ALL have frozen our tongues to something metal and lived to tell
about it.
23. A Canadian invented Superman.
24. We have colured money.
25. Our beer advertisments kick ass
BUT MOST IMPORTANT!
24. The handles on our beer cases are big enough to fit your hands with
mitts on. OOOoohhhhh Canada!!
25. And we don't bomb our allies.

oh yeah... and our elections only take one day.