On 12 Aug 2004 12:06:50 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Dave Hall wrote in message . ..
On 11 Aug 2004 12:27:38 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:



Why would one who is not racing boats, need to make them as loud as
possible, only to gain a mile or two an hour?

Why does one have to race to enjoy going fast? I used to enjoy playing
an occasional game of football when I was a kid, that doesn't mean I
need to join a professional team.

Where did I say that you shouldn't enjoy going fast? What I asked was,
does one mile an hour give you that much joy, to have to have
completely open exhaust? Jeez, if so, walk, three miles an hour should
really excite you!

If walking at 3 MPH excited me, I would 've bought a sailboat. When it
comes to the subject of maximum performance, you either understand it,
or you don't. Have you ever watched the things that car racing guys do
to pick up an additional few MPH? The same thing goes for the guys on
water. The biggest difference is that the legal speed limits generally
make recreational racing illegal on the road. On the water, this is
usually not the case. Guys are free to take part in impromptu "races"
at any time. Obviously the drive to win will push these guys to use
every resource at their disposal to make their boat as fast as
possible (or that they can afford to spend). There is almost endless
prop swapping, engine tweaks, waxing the bottom, cutting out excess
weight etc. A race can be won or lost by 1 MPH.

If you think that's silly then you don't get it. Nothing wrong with
that, but don't denigrate those who do.


Why would these people
have a need to run them near people, instead of open water?

How do you get to the open water?

You don't have to go wide open to get there do you?

But you can, so why not, if it's what you enjoy?

Dave

So, if I live next door to you, and I enjoy blasting my Studio Master
loudspeakers outside, at 1 a.m., it's completely acceptable to you?


Ah, the classic strawman argument.

Try comparing apples to apples. No, I would not like hearing your
loudspeakers at 1 Am. I would not want to hear a performance boat in
my marina at 1 am either.

But at 1:00 PM it's a different story in either case.


Dave

"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
news

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be
quiet,
but
their tendency to
think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in
front
of
a
power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet
25.

If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear.



It is up to you not to make changes in front of another boat! If we
are
overtaking, the rules say we can expect you to hold course.
Bill



Maybe, but if the sailboat's approaching a hazard like a sand bar and
HAS
to
turn, you may have to use common sense and let him do what's
necessary.
The
hell with the law.



We have them turn in front of power boats in the middle of San Francisco
bay. No sandbar for at least 1 mile in any direction. Those who
challenge
the big freighters under the Golden Gate bridge are in 200'+ water.



So, get on the radio and say something to the captain instead of bitching
about it here.



They probably also do not listen to the radio. Sort of like your bitching
here about politics.

And sort of like you, bitching about EVERYTHING.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message thlink.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:15:03 GMT, something compelled "Calif
Bill" , to say:


attributions lost

Nobody mentioned jetskis.

Not me.


Some places have outlawed jetskis. I don't think they should be
prohibited, but I do think we ought to be allowed to shoot at
them.

And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but their
tendency
(is) to
think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front
of
a
power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25.

If the sail boat is beating against the wind, you can expect
these turns, especially if the sailboat in question is about to
run out of water. But, much like a pedestrian has the right of
way in a crosswalk, it's not always a good idea to step out into
traffic. Creating a dangerous situation is *not* a provision of
the rules of the road, and the overtaken boat is required to
maintain course and speed until the situation is resolved.

We have the problem in SF bay, that the sailboats think they have the
right
of way over any power boat. They will cross in front of large container
ship coming in the Golden Gate and state they are sail and have right of
way. 2 points. One they do not have right of way over a restricted
channel
vessel and two, they are losers in the physics world of bigger mass
wins. I
have had them come out of the Alameda estuary channel, and turn right in
front of me with sails up, and they still have the iron sail running.
Then
yell at me they have the right of way. Well, if they are in a crash,
and
hurt my $20,000 boat, they will find out that they are going to buy me a
$100,000 boat. Both because they were under power, and 2nd, they have
to
maintain course as they are being overtaken.

Ah, so all of a sudden you LIKE law suit lawyers?

I actually have friends that are lawyers. Do you have any friends? And If
they sink my boat and injure me, I am going to be made whole.

So, you don't agree with excessive lawsuits, unless it's YOU that is
raking the money in, huh? And, because I answer questions asked of me,
instead of just asking another question, yes, I have many friends.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:35:21 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


Ahh, but there's a difference. If you think my opinions represent
obnoxious behavior, you can filter me out or not read them, eh? But when
assholes like you drive by in their unmuffled penis boats, one cannot
filter you out. Your obnoxious behavior is right there...

You can always leave if it bothers you so much. It must really suck
being someone who is so sensitive to others activities to the point
that you would vocally oppose their right to enjoy life, because they
"bother" you.

Ahh, but this is the fallacy in your position. Folks enjoying peace and
quiet, and some asshole with a loud boat comes by and shatters it all.
And stays around. So...the folks who were enjoying the peace and quiet
are the ones who should leave.


So you want to get philosophical on me eh? Is quiet simply the absence
of noise? Or is noise simply the absence of quiet. Does someone's
right to enjoy the absence of noise supersede another's right to enjoy
the absence of quiet?

Dave

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:48:24 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:




Where am I going with all this? The point is that many people enjoy
different things on the water. Many of those activities clash with the
activities of others.


The answer, obviously, is to enforce the same sorts of noise
restrictions on the water as are enforced on land. If you are within
earshot of others in coves, creeks or on shore, effective engine
muffling is required.

If the penisboaters don't like it, they can always go offshore. Way
offshore.

If they can. It's tough to go "offshore" on a landlocked lake.

Or maybe those who don't like a little engine music, can find another
station to tune to.......

Dave

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:45:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

It's a perfect example of a strawman. It does not reflect reality.

Sorry, Dave, but this refers to Lake George. The same scenario repeats
itself on Seneca Lake, Cayuga Lake, Canandaigua Lake, Conesus Lake,
and
plenty of others.

Guys run offshore performance boats there?

Absolutely. Of the last 4 lakes I mentioned, the first 3 are quite large.
Plenty of room to move. Conesus is too small for offshore boats, but that
doesn't stop a significant number of fools from owning them anyway. Then,
there's Lake Ontario. It's about 45 miles across, measuring north-south.
There's a 10 acre spot a few minutes from where I launch. That spot's
traditionally been a big attraction for fishermen. You meet 90 year old
guys
who say "Yip....if ya wanna git ya some bass, you wanna drift across the
lumps right off from Hedges" (a restaurant clearly visible from the
shore).


On a dead-calm evening, in water that begins at 25 feet and drops off
quickly to over 400 feet, can you explain why one speedboat after another
has has to roar within a few hundred feet of a bunch of 14-20 ft boats?
At
the speeds they're going, they could move out a 1/2 mile in 30-40
seconds.

No I can't, but there must be a reason, otherwise why do it?

OK. Using the numbers I provided, which enable you to understand the
navigational issues in this particular spot, come up with 3 possible
reasons.

Dave Hall wrote:

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:35:21 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


Ahh, but there's a difference. If you think my opinions represent
obnoxious behavior, you can filter me out or not read them, eh? But when
assholes like you drive by in their unmuffled penis boats, one cannot
filter you out. Your obnoxious behavior is right there...

You can always leave if it bothers you so much. It must really suck
being someone who is so sensitive to others activities to the point
that you would vocally oppose their right to enjoy life, because they
"bother" you.

Ahh, but this is the fallacy in your position. Folks enjoying peace and
quiet, and some asshole with a loud boat comes by and shatters it all.
And stays around. So...the folks who were enjoying the peace and quiet
are the ones who should leave.


So you want to get philosophical on me eh? Is quiet simply the absence
of noise? Or is noise simply the absence of quiet. Does someone's
right to enjoy the absence of noise supersede another's right to enjoy
the absence of quiet?

Dave


Yeah, it does. There is no practical reason for a penisboat to be a
disturber of the peace. Effective marine engine sound control systems
are readily available. When we lived on the ICW in Florida, I reported a
number of noise-offending boats to the County authorities and on several
occasions, they chased down the obnoxious idiots and gave them a
citation for violation of noise-control laws. Perhaps we need to work on
such regs for Maryland.

--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:50:37 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

When it
comes to the subject of maximum performance, you either understand it,
or you don't. Have you ever watched the things that car racing guys do
to pick up an additional few MPH?

We know all about it. But, if you drove most race cars on the street,
you'd
be ticketed or arrested, even if just for the noise some of them make.
That's why there are race tracks.

Race cars, for the most part, are not street legal. There are stock
classes which are, and there would be no problem.



The same thing goes for the guys on
water.

What they do offshore is their business.

Until you decide to fish offshore. Then the noise would "bother" you
again.

Ummm....no. Then I realize I'm in their territory, and accept the
consequences, just as I'd accept that I might have to stay out of the way of
an oil tanker. This is not the same as a penis-boat child choking his
chicken by buzzing repeatedly around a quiet cove. Then, he's in the wrong
territory.

Calif Bill wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
news:b7vSc.18339 And nobody mentioned sailboats. They may be quiet, but
their tendency to

think that they own the water, and can make a 90 degree turn in front of

a

power boat, whether the powerboat is doing a loud 60 or a quiet 25.


If you are overtaking us it's your responsibility to stay clear.




It is up to you not to make changes in front of another boat! If we are
overtaking, the rules say we can expect you to hold course.
Bill


In reality, there are things you don't know about sailing if you
think that sailboats have the same freedom to manoevre as do power
boats.

The facts remain that it is impossible for a sailboat to persue,
close with, and ram a powerboat. Vice versa not so. All you have to
do is lean a little on the wheel, and keep clear. What's the big
deal? In a narrow channel you should be going slow, anyway. The
regulations say so, and they are right, because the depth, current
and wind have a very great influence on sailors, influences to which
most power boaters are completely oblivious, as many are to their
wake. Please pass behind if you can. If you don't understand that a
sailor may have no choise but to go about if his course and the wind
are pushing him into water shallower than is safe, then you need
some educating as to the nature of life on the sea, Billy.

Sailboats are only one of the hazards you are expected to know about.

Aargh!

Nobody really wants to cause a collision just to annoy you.

Besides, you must keep clear just as you would if you were passing
another power boat. Would you want to pass close by at shocking
speed just for fun? Would you take a chance that he would behave
perfectly? Or, have you seen powerboaters that should be grounded, too?

Please don't adopt the view that all sailors are out to annoy you.
Go sailing with someone and see for yourself.

Terry K

JohnH wrote:


Harry, do you live so close to the water that the noise bothers you while
typing? I've been on the water about two to three times a week since school let
out. I've yet to see one of these noise makers where I fish.

Yeah, well, you rarely go farther out than $3.00 worth of gas takes you...



--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me -
you can't get fooled again." -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002