On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:16:20 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:50:37 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

When it
comes to the subject of maximum performance, you either understand it,
or you don't. Have you ever watched the things that car racing guys do
to pick up an additional few MPH?

We know all about it. But, if you drove most race cars on the street,
you'd
be ticketed or arrested, even if just for the noise some of them make.
That's why there are race tracks.

Race cars, for the most part, are not street legal. There are stock
classes which are, and there would be no problem.



The same thing goes for the guys on
water.

What they do offshore is their business.

Until you decide to fish offshore. Then the noise would "bother" you
again.

Ummm....no. Then I realize I'm in their territory, and accept the
consequences, just as I'd accept that I might have to stay out of the way of
an oil tanker. This is not the same as a penis-boat child choking his
chicken by buzzing repeatedly around a quiet cove. Then, he's in the wrong
territory.


Ah! So who has the right to decree that the cove was "your territory"
and that offshore was "his"?

Dave

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:16:20 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:50:37 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
.. .

When it
comes to the subject of maximum performance, you either understand
it,
or you don't. Have you ever watched the things that car racing guys
do
to pick up an additional few MPH?

We know all about it. But, if you drove most race cars on the street,
you'd
be ticketed or arrested, even if just for the noise some of them make.
That's why there are race tracks.

Race cars, for the most part, are not street legal. There are stock
classes which are, and there would be no problem.



The same thing goes for the guys on
water.

What they do offshore is their business.

Until you decide to fish offshore. Then the noise would "bother" you
again.

Ummm....no. Then I realize I'm in their territory, and accept the
consequences, just as I'd accept that I might have to stay out of the way
of
an oil tanker. This is not the same as a penis-boat child choking his
chicken by buzzing repeatedly around a quiet cove. Then, he's in the
wrong
territory.


Ah! So who has the right to decree that the cove was "your territory"
and that offshore was "his"?

Dave


If you had two toddlers taking naps in their strollers in a public park, who
says I shouldn't crank up a boom box 5 feet from them?

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:24:51 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:


Oh, puh-lease, Dave. Buy a clue about something. Owners of superloud
"pleasure boats" are desperately trying to demonstrate their "manhood"
to all, just like the owenrs of superloud cars with "through" exhausts,
or overage teeny-boppers with "throbbing" bass speakers and huge amps
powering their car stereos.

Again you prove yourself and idiot, and show once again you know
nothing about boating.

There's very little more annoying out on the Bay than trying to enjoy a
relazing afternoon while penis boats go flying by at 60-80mph (and
usually on their way to nowhere) with roaring, unmuffled exhausts and
some overly sunburned type A asshole at the helm, hoping everyone
notices. The usual comments are..."hmmm...any logs in the water out
there he might hit?"

LOL! You sure are a hoot man...keep up the good work!

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 04:47:03 GMT, something compelled "Calif
Bill" , to say:

We have the problem in SF bay, that the sailboats think they have the right
of way over any power boat.

Well, of course. The Bay Area has *way* more than its share of
entitlement addicts, all to willing to assert their "rights"
against all reason. These are the same people that will step out
into traffic without looking, or ride their bicycles on busy
roads in such a way as to impede traffic. Common sense and a
respect for F = MA get overwritten by the flashing neon sign
stating I've Got My Rights!

"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 04:47:03 GMT, something compelled "Calif
Bill" , to say:

We have the problem in SF bay, that the sailboats think they have the
right
of way over any power boat.

Well, of course. The Bay Area has *way* more than its share of
entitlement addicts, all to willing to assert their "rights"
against all reason. These are the same people that will step out
into traffic without looking, or ride their bicycles on busy
roads in such a way as to impede traffic. Common sense and a
respect for F = MA get overwritten by the flashing neon sign
stating I've Got My Rights!

Funny addendum. In my last violators school. We who speed, are violators.
The teacher stated that 80% of the pedestrians killed in the US are
Californians. They go other places like Mass. and NY and figure they are
pedestrians, they have the right of way. If a person steps from between 2
parked cars in the middle of the block and you run over him, it is your
fault, as he is a pedestrian. Great laws we have here.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:24:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:



Ummm....no. Then I realize I'm in their territory, and accept the
consequences, just as I'd accept that I might have to stay out of the way
of
an oil tanker. This is not the same as a penis-boat child choking his
chicken by buzzing repeatedly around a quiet cove. Then, he's in the
wrong
territory.


Ah! So who has the right to decree that the cove was "your territory"
and that offshore was "his"?

Dave


If you had two toddlers taking naps in their strollers in a public park, who
says I shouldn't crank up a boom box 5 feet from them?


No one. That's the reality of sharing a public resource. Everyone's
idea of fun does not necessarily have to correspond to everyone elses.
Those who attempt to make value judgements to impress their subjective
opinions on everyone are basically attempting to limit other people's
right of access according to their own personal mindset.


Dave

Dave Hall wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:24:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:



Ummm....no. Then I realize I'm in their territory, and accept the
consequences, just as I'd accept that I might have to stay out of the way
of
an oil tanker. This is not the same as a penis-boat child choking his
chicken by buzzing repeatedly around a quiet cove. Then, he's in the
wrong
territory.


Ah! So who has the right to decree that the cove was "your territory"
and that offshore was "his"?

Dave


If you had two toddlers taking naps in their strollers in a public park, who
says I shouldn't crank up a boom box 5 feet from them?


No one. That's the reality of sharing a public resource. Everyone's
idea of fun does not necessarily have to correspond to everyone elses.
Those who attempt to make value judgements to impress their subjective
opinions on everyone are basically attempting to limit other people's
right of access according to their own personal mindset.


Dave

So, again, if I lived next door to you, and I decided that I want to
have a thrash band play out on the deck every night starting at, say
midnight, and playing till early morning, you'd find that okay? Would
you also say that there shouldn't be laws to govern such actions?

On 16 Aug 2004 11:03:06 -0700, (basskisser) wrote:

Dave Hall wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:24:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:



Ummm....no. Then I realize I'm in their territory, and accept the
consequences, just as I'd accept that I might have to stay out of the way
of
an oil tanker. This is not the same as a penis-boat child choking his
chicken by buzzing repeatedly around a quiet cove. Then, he's in the
wrong
territory.


Ah! So who has the right to decree that the cove was "your territory"
and that offshore was "his"?

Dave


If you had two toddlers taking naps in their strollers in a public park, who
says I shouldn't crank up a boom box 5 feet from them?


No one. That's the reality of sharing a public resource. Everyone's
idea of fun does not necessarily have to correspond to everyone elses.
Those who attempt to make value judgements to impress their subjective
opinions on everyone are basically attempting to limit other people's
right of access according to their own personal mindset.


Dave

So, again, if I lived next door to you, and I decided that I want to
have a thrash band play out on the deck every night starting at, say
midnight, and playing till early morning, you'd find that okay? Would
you also say that there shouldn't be laws to govern such actions?

You still don't get it do you? You keep coming up with strawman
situations which do not reflect the same circumstances and then
attempt to make a comparison. I already answered your last
hypothetical strawman. The time makes the difference. There already
ARE laws that limit noise at times when MOST people are expected to be
sleeping. The same rules do not apply in the middle of the day.

If my neighbor decided to cut his lawn at 3:00 AM, I would have a
problem. If he did it at 3:00 PM, there would be no problem. The
activity is the same, the noise is the same. What's different is the
time.

You would have no trouble having laws passed which limit noise during
"sleepytime", as the majority of people (Even those who like noise
during the day) want peace and quiet at night. During the day, it
becomes a much different issue, and one which becomes complicated by
personal opinion, subjectivity, and value judgement.

Dave

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ...
Dave: No comments from the peanut gallery.

I'm using the term "speedboats" to describe boats which sound like they have
(and probably do have) a pair of 400+ cubic inch motors in the back? In
order to achieve their purpose (speed), is it absolutely necessary for them
to be as noisy as they are, or are they just designed that way, in the same
way some morons alter their motorcycles because "loud pipes save lives"?
And, when they're idling, why do they sound (and smell) as if the engines
are only firing on half their cylinders?

Well guys, there is quiet a bit of discussion on this thread. I'd like
to add that ulitmately it comes to personal freedom of the one vs.
personal freedom of the other. One finds it fun to roar around the
other finds it fun to listen to the sounds of nature.

Nobody is wrong but from my experience it is that the faster and more
powerized sport/toy/vessel will someday be stripped of its freedom
with overly harsh laws and regulations thus totally wrecking ALL fun.

If you can, then please do not annoy others as they team up and get
laws in place to end your hobby. Be kind and helpful, accept a small
limitation to your sport/fun before it will be taken away for good.
Dont annoy, hurt (yourself or others) and you will enjoy your sport
for much longer as you go annoticed and you can enjoy what you like.
By drawing negative attention to your hobby you will make it harder to
do what you like.

Often little things help. Slow down a little to reduce wake or noise
does make others feel like you try to make their life comfprtable and
they will have less sentiment against you, thus opposing YOUR sport
less.

I i.e. usually slow down when passing stopped vessels, although the
wake at slow speed is much bigger than my wake at WOT... people notice
that someone takes and effort...

Do what you can to keep your sport alive. Trust me on that: There are
already people working on regulations to keep your boat in your the
driveway. Dont give them the fuel they need to light the "Lets outlaw
[insert your sport here]" fire.

Matt

Matt Lang wrote:

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ...
Dave: No comments from the peanut gallery.

I'm using the term "speedboats" to describe boats which sound like they have
(and probably do have) a pair of 400+ cubic inch motors in the back? In
order to achieve their purpose (speed), is it absolutely necessary for them
to be as noisy as they are, or are they just designed that way, in the same
way some morons alter their motorcycles because "loud pipes save lives"?
And, when they're idling, why do they sound (and smell) as if the engines
are only firing on half their cylinders?

Well guys, there is quiet a bit of discussion on this thread. I'd like
to add that ulitmately it comes to personal freedom of the one vs.
personal freedom of the other. One finds it fun to roar around the
other finds it fun to listen to the sounds of nature.

Nobody is wrong but from my experience it is that the faster and more
powerized sport/toy/vessel will someday be stripped of its freedom
with overly harsh laws and regulations thus totally wrecking ALL fun.



"Wrong" is to disturb everyone else's peace so you can "enjoy" the noise
your penisboat makes.

There is no reason why these penisboats have to be so loud. They can be
muffled so they are not annoying, and they can be rigged with
pass-troughs for offshore use.