On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 14:03:24 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
Anything that
doesn't belong on a racing boat would sink your idea.

=============================================

You mean something like a cooler full of beer, high powered stereo and
a bikini babe or two? Sounds pretty racy to me...

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 14:03:24 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:
Anything that
doesn't belong on a racing boat would sink your idea.

=============================================

You mean something like a cooler full of beer, high powered stereo and
a bikini babe or two? Sounds pretty racy to me...


Maybe even just dishes. :-)

"Bob D." wrote in message
...
You've raised many valid points. Here are a few more to consider:

In article , "JGK"
wrote:

For Christ sakes you are making it sound like every boat that goes by is
a
37' Cigarette Top Gun with twin 502,s running at 7500 RPM. In south Fla
we
have our fair share of them but give me a break, its not like the bay is
thundering with the sound of Ocean Racers 24/7!
I don't have one of these boats, wish I could afford one but I still
enjoy
seeing them run and yes even hearing them run. I guess many of you are
not
race fans, or gear heads that enjoyed working on your cars. The rough
idle
is caused by a hot cam, and when at idle the motors are not that loud,
granted they are louder than most, but they are not ear splitting and
can
even sound good to some people.

Not wanting offshore boats to run unmuffled IS NOT synomynous with any
lack of appreciation for performance. I am sure that many of the posters
who resent people who run their boats without a diverter, enjoy an auto
or boat race as much as the next guy. The difference is:

1. It is an actual race vs someone showing off a toy.

2. They are making an informed decision and electing
to partake in the event versus someone forcing them
to listen to a bunch of noise.

As for ear splitting sound. Maybe maybe not. My criteria for annoyance
in this matter is obviously lower than yours, as I find it annoying long
before any physical damage to my hearing is done. While I can't speak
for everyone, for me it's often not just the noise, its the intent. If an
unmuffled boat idles by, I may not like it, but as you state, it will come
to pass. I have friendly acquaintances at a marina I frequent, two
couples, each with an offshore. They idle in and out quickly and at
reasonable times of day, no problem.

To infer that we as a group are intolerant becuase we don't want to have
to scream at the person next to us just becuase someone wants EVERYONE to
hear how powerful his boat is by choosing not to use his exhaust diverter,
well that may seem intolerant to you, but I might be more tolerant in far
more areas. Don't judge me or anyone else just because we don't
understand the need for anyone who can afford boating to call attention to
themselves. The behaviour is selfish, and quite frankly, unessarily
redundant.

Some of these boats can cruise at over 100 mph which is a pretty
impressive
feat, basically that's like breakfast in Bimini and lunch in the Grove.
In the bay there are speed limits which pretty much limit the sound
because
they are running just above idle, in manatee zones they are running at
idle.
When they go into the inlet to the ocean they throttle up and are out
if
earshot in a minute or two. Unless you are in another boat that can
stay
with them you wont hear them again.

Were all impressed with the speed of these boats. I especially have an
appreciation as I went from sailing into powerboating. I like sailing
more than powerboating, but since the majority of my time on the water is
going to a destination, I find powerboating more in line with the type of
boating I do. I for one like to go fast on the water. I like to go fast
on land. But I like the type of performance that hides itself until
needed. You know, like the AMG Mercedes that could blow the doors off of
a porsche. I have no problem with race boats being loud. I have the
problem with someone who refuses to muffle their exhaust at idle because
the want to get the extra 10HP at WOT they'll rarely if ever ever use on
Lake Erie. In short, multiple people are paying for one persons ego.

Seems that all you people are too quick to try to start finding laws to
ban
them are they really that much of a problem? A little noise and its
time to
call in the feds.
Some of the people in these boats can be jerks, no doubt about that too,
Someone mentioned mufflers on race cars, don't laugh some classes
require
mufflers. When racing Mazda Rotaries you definitely need a muffler.
Again
some of these boats have them. Which makes me wonder why the big gripe
about the noise? If you figure the total number of boat, then take
the
number of go-fasts minus the number of go-fasts with mufflers the
percentage
of boats you are complaining about is very small. Which makes me wonder
if envy comes into play here.

Interesting "statistics". Now heres one for you: All it takes in ONE to
be consistiently next to you and not exercising due courtesy, and maybe
you won't find that "high performance" sound so appealing.

How about the guy fifteen feet away, who is revving up each of engine to
"tune" it in from of his girlfriend.

How about the little dickhead fifty feet away who comes back for the bars
at 3am and feels the need to rev his engines for a few minutes to show
off.

How about the idiot whose exhaust is two feet from the beam of your boat,
where your bunk is, who starts his boat at 7:30 am sunday morning then
leisurely proceeds, to remove his spring lines, power cord, fenders, takes
a dump in the marina bathroom, quickly departing at 7:50am?

These three people alone are the reasons I would vote for tougher noise
laws within a mile from any shoreline.


As a side note, twin high performance 502's at idle still smell a whole
lot
better than any diesel ever would.


I don't exactly know what 502's smell like, but it can't be worse than a
diesel :^)

Bob Dimond

When people say "Our military has lost track of hundreds of Stinger missiles
and they have gotten into the wrong hands", it's really true. I know whose
hands are the right ones. :-)

It's just more thoughtless behavior from the ego challenged "look at
me" crowd. There's no reason at all why a pair of 454s has to be
louder than any other well mannered I/O except that the owners prefer
it that way.

Im not sure I agree...

First, a less restictive (louder) exhaust is in fact a performance
enhancment.

And not "all" high-performance boaters are "look at me" people. I have been
building high-performance boat engines for years, and do more so for R&D,
than fun and thrills.

Thus why I go out at the least busy times.

Take care.

--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/

"Netsock" wrote in message
...
It's just more thoughtless behavior from the ego challenged "look at
me" crowd. There's no reason at all why a pair of 454s has to be
louder than any other well mannered I/O except that the owners prefer
it that way.

Im not sure I agree...

First, a less restictive (louder) exhaust is in fact a performance
enhancment.

And not "all" high-performance boaters are "look at me" people. I have
been
building high-performance boat engines for years, and do more so for R&D,
than fun and thrills.

Thus why I go out at the least busy times.

Take care.

Yeah, but I'll bet you don't start your lawn mower at 7:00 AM, right? If
you come home late, when the whole neighborhood's lights are out, I'd guess
that you lean on your horn as a way of saying hello as you pull into the
driveway. If your car's exhaust develops a leak and gets really loud, but
you can't get to the mechanic for a couple of days, do you try and adjust
your driving needs so as not to **** off the whole neighborhood? Maybe knock
on your neighbor's door and say "Hey...sorry about the noise, it'll be fixed
on Thursday"?

There's a breed of people who just don't get it. Those are the ones we're
talking about here.

Subject: Loud boats
From: "Rod McInnis"

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

Cam timing and lift patterns.

Capt. Bill

Are they, in fact, misfiring at idle?



An engine that is designed for high RPMs will often sacrifice low RPM (idle)
performance to get the engine to breath better at high RPMs.

At the higher RPMs the momentum (or lack thereof) is a substantial factor in
the air flow. The exhaust gases flowing out the manifold have momentum, and
can actually help scavenge the cylinder if the valves are left open a little
past "top dead center". Likewise, it takes a while to get the air intake to
start flowing, plus it takes a while to actually get the valves to open. It
is common for a high RPM cam to have both the exhaust and intake valves open
together for a short period of time.

This works well at 6000 + RPM. It doesn't work well at 800 RPM.

I wouldn't call it a "misfire" as much as the intake system is getting all
messed up.

Rod

What he said. :-)

Capt. Bill

"Bob D." wrote in message
...
You've raised many valid points. Here are a few more to consider:

Not wanting offshore boats to run unmuffled IS NOT synomynous with any
lack of appreciation for performance. I am sure that many of the posters
who resent people who run their boats without a diverter, enjoy an auto
or boat race as much as the next guy. The difference is:

1. It is an actual race vs someone showing off a toy.

2. They are making an informed decision and electing
to partake in the event versus someone forcing them
to listen to a bunch of noise.

As for ear splitting sound. Maybe maybe not. My criteria for annoyance
in this matter is obviously lower than yours, as I find it annoying long
before any physical damage to my hearing is done. While I can't speak
for everyone, for me it's often not just the noise, its the intent. If an
unmuffled boat idles by, I may not like it, but as you state, it will come
to pass. I have friendly acquaintances at a marina I frequent, two
couples, each with an offshore. They idle in and out quickly and at
reasonable times of day, no problem.

I thought about this a lot and it seems that its not the loud boats at all.
I appreciate the sound of performance engines and they are almost music to
my ears.
However I have a very low tolerance for rap music with the heavy bass, hate
it when
I'm at a light and the car behind me has a stereo that has so much bass it
makes my rear
view mirror vibrate. The sound of a Harley is irritating because if I had a
Corvette that hit
the same DB as those bikes I'd get a ticket but the Harleys are un touched,
not to mention
the little Japanese cars that now have more exhaust than engine.
What we are complaining about are people who are rude and have no common
curtsey for others.
Not sure what can be done.... Yeah you can pass laws for noise, get them to
enforce it but then
you have a bigger problem with the government.
Performance boats are not the problem. if I came home from fishing at 3 in
the morning and decided
to rinse my 125 outboard before I went to bed I'm sure the neighbors would
think it was just as loud as
what you are complaining about. Its the people not the bots that are a
problem.
Remember you cannot legislate morality or common sense. Less Government is
better government.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
When people say "Our military has lost track of hundreds of Stinger
missiles
and they have gotten into the wrong hands", it's really true. I know whose
hands are the right ones. :-)

Damn you are one sick puppy... bitching about the inconsiderate people with
the performance boats, then yapping about the barking dogs and trying to
figure out if it would be better to shoot or poison them..
All things considered, I rather have the inconsiderate perfomance boater as
a neighbor than you.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I suspect a judge would ask the LEO to search the boat. Anything that
doesn't belong on a racing boat would sink your idea.

not really you can be out testing and in testing you would have different
things aboard than if you were racing.
If you claim to be racing production class... you could have everything a
production boat came with
stereo, coolers ect...

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:41:30 -0400, (Bob
D.) wrote:

You've raised many valid points. Here are a few more to consider:

In article , "JGK"
wrote:

For Christ sakes you are making it sound like every boat that goes by is a
37' Cigarette Top Gun with twin 502,s running at 7500 RPM. In south Fla we
have our fair share of them but give me a break, its not like the bay is
thundering with the sound of Ocean Racers 24/7!
I don't have one of these boats, wish I could afford one but I still enjoy
seeing them run and yes even hearing them run. I guess many of you are not
race fans, or gear heads that enjoyed working on your cars. The rough idle
is caused by a hot cam, and when at idle the motors are not that loud,
granted they are louder than most, but they are not ear splitting and can
even sound good to some people.

Not wanting offshore boats to run unmuffled IS NOT synomynous with any
lack of appreciation for performance. I am sure that many of the posters
who resent people who run their boats without a diverter, enjoy an auto
or boat race as much as the next guy. The difference is:

1. It is an actual race vs someone showing off a toy.

That you would denigrate a person's recreational choice down to the
category of "a toy" is telling in itself, and indicates a lack of
understanding of the sport. Many people enjoy running fast, but do not
desire (or cannot afford) to "race" officially. The same performance
considerations affect both "official" racers and weekend warriors.

2. They are making an informed decision and electing
to partake in the event versus someone forcing them
to listen to a bunch of noise.

What constitutes "a bunch of noise" is usually a matter of
subjectivity and personal preference. Personally, my boating day would
not be complete without hearing the sweet sounds of many finely tuned
big blocks running at 4000 RPM as they pass by. Now these boats are
not overly loud in my opinion. They do not impair conversation nor do
they drown out the stereo.


As for ear splitting sound. Maybe maybe not. My criteria for annoyance
in this matter is obviously lower than yours, as I find it annoying long
before any physical damage to my hearing is done. While I can't speak
for everyone, for me it's often not just the noise, its the intent. If an
unmuffled boat idles by, I may not like it, but as you state, it will come
to pass. I have friendly acquaintances at a marina I frequent, two
couples, each with an offshore. They idle in and out quickly and at
reasonable times of day, no problem.

Some people just don't get it. If you have a boat with unmuffled thru
transoms with no diverter, then you have to be responsible enough to
understand that not everyone likes and/or appreciates the sound. This
feeling is also very time dependant.

To infer that we as a group are intolerant becuase we don't want to have
to scream at the person next to us just becuase someone wants EVERYONE to
hear how powerful his boat is by choosing not to use his exhaust diverter,
well that may seem intolerant to you, but I might be more tolerant in far
more areas. Don't judge me or anyone else just because we don't
understand the need for anyone who can afford boating to call attention to
themselves. The behaviour is selfish, and quite frankly, unessarily
redundant.

Making the assumption that people who enjoy performance boats, are all
going though a mid-life crisis, need a "penis extension", or are
somehow just looking to show off, is being judgmental and stereotyping
in the worst way.


Some of these boats can cruise at over 100 mph which is a pretty impressive
feat, basically that's like breakfast in Bimini and lunch in the Grove.
In the bay there are speed limits which pretty much limit the sound because
they are running just above idle, in manatee zones they are running at idle.
When they go into the inlet to the ocean they throttle up and are out if
earshot in a minute or two. Unless you are in another boat that can stay
with them you wont hear them again.

Were all impressed with the speed of these boats. I especially have an
appreciation as I went from sailing into powerboating. I like sailing
more than powerboating, but since the majority of my time on the water is
going to a destination, I find powerboating more in line with the type of
boating I do. I for one like to go fast on the water. I like to go fast
on land. But I like the type of performance that hides itself until
needed. You know, like the AMG Mercedes that could blow the doors off of
a porsche. I have no problem with race boats being loud. I have the
problem with someone who refuses to muffle their exhaust at idle because
the want to get the extra 10HP at WOT they'll rarely if ever ever use on
Lake Erie. In short, multiple people are paying for one persons ego.

I would agree right up until your quip about a person's ego. Once
again you are making a judgement. There are many technical reasons why
performance boats are loud. Considering that once you reach the 50 MPH
area, it takes roughly between 10 and 15 HP to gain each additional 1
MPH, every little bit of gain helps. Installing a free flowing exhaust
system (Including tuned headers or a better manifold), can net you up
to 30 more HP (Which means 2 more MPH). It would be great if every
boat had a "captain's call" exhaust diverter, but the truth is that
many don't (mine doesn't). As I get older, I find my tolerance for
noise to be less, which is why I shoved a set of baffles in my
exhausts. Yea, it trimmed a little off the top end, but I don't run
flat out all that much any more, and it makes the boat much more
friendly to everyone else. The last thing I want to do is make enemies
of fellow boaters.

Seems that all you people are too quick to try to start finding laws to ban
them are they really that much of a problem? A little noise and its time to
call in the feds.
Some of the people in these boats can be jerks, no doubt about that too,
Someone mentioned mufflers on race cars, don't laugh some classes require
mufflers. When racing Mazda Rotaries you definitely need a muffler. Again
some of these boats have them. Which makes me wonder why the big gripe
about the noise? If you figure the total number of boat, then take the
number of go-fasts minus the number of go-fasts with mufflers the percentage
of boats you are complaining about is very small. Which makes me wonder
if envy comes into play here.

Interesting "statistics". Now heres one for you: All it takes in ONE to
be consistiently next to you and not exercising due courtesy, and maybe
you won't find that "high performance" sound so appealing.

That's true of any activity. Even your favorite music, when played at
an excessive level at a time when you'd prefer quiet (like 2:00 AM),
becomes very annoying.

How about the guy fifteen feet away, who is revving up each of engine to
"tune" it in from of his girlfriend.

Most women have no clue (or do they want to know) what a tuned up
engine is supposed to sound like, unless she's one of those rare
female gearheads. If it were me reving the engine, my wife would turn
to me and ask "Must you do that?"

How about the little dickhead fifty feet away who comes back for the bars
at 3am and feels the need to rev his engines for a few minutes to show
off.

Who's he showing off to at 3:00 AM?

How about the idiot whose exhaust is two feet from the beam of your boat,
where your bunk is, who starts his boat at 7:30 am sunday morning then
leisurely proceeds, to remove his spring lines, power cord, fenders, takes
a dump in the marina bathroom, quickly departing at 7:50am?

I guess he wants to make sure the engine is thoroughly warmed up
before shoving off. At 5:30 AM even normal outboards or standard
inboards are loud. When I was a marina rat in 1982-84, I used to be
woken up regularly at that time when the gung-ho fishermen would fire
off toward that distant fishing hole. Yet those same guys had the
nerve to bitch when we cruised back into the marina at 2:30 in the
morning after a night of partying. And we didn't even have a
performance boat then.

These three people alone are the reasons I would vote for tougher noise
laws within a mile from any shoreline.

It's a shame that a few people wreck things for the rest of us.

Dave