For those who have interest, either in solving their own problem or
helping out a fellow boater, I have continued troubleshooting my water
leakage problems over this past weekend.

For those who have not read my previous postings on this subject, I am
taking on significant water underway, but not a drop while she is
dockside. My friend managed to track the water ingress as coming from
forward of the engine room bulkhead, but nothing more specific. I have
installed both a counter and a high water alarm for monitoring the
problem.

First, while installing a counter and not a chronometer seemed like a good
idea at the time, it is less than useful in all points of monitoring. I
believe it is more useful at the dock than a chronometer, as it can be
reset, and provides a clear indicator that something has happened without
having to use a logbook to store and retreive previous values. Underway,
the counter will cycle unecessarily as water sloshing in the bilge will
trigger the float to activate even if it is only a split second. I am
investigating putting a delay in the pump circuit where once the bilge
pump is activated it stays on for a predetermined length of time (say 15
seconds) to negate the inherent limitations of the counter alone.

At 5pm Friday afternoon, we headed out on on Lake Erie about 17 miles to
South Bass Island. I had planned on stuffing plastic bags into each
unecessary above the waterline thru-hull (with a string leading to the
deck for instant removal), to confirm or alleviate this suspect as a cause
of my problem. We neglected to do this as we did not have a dock reserved
at our destination, and wanted to leave enough daylight for our return
trip if necessary.

During our trip we were taking 1 to 3 footers on our forward port quarter,
with our ground speed ranging from 16 to 20 miles per hour. I was less
than methodical, failing to keep track of the miles between cyclings, as I
was counting on the counter to work adequately (stupid me). After going
from zero to a high cycle number on the counter, I figured out the problem
and whenever the counter activated, I manually ran the bilge for 30-60
seconds to insure the bilge pump drained everything it could with each
cycle, I then reset the counter. I did not keep track adequately, but
figured the water level increased enough to activate the float switch
between seven and ten times.

Sunday we left with a slightly more methodical approach. After leaving
the harbor, we broke our trip back into five mile increments. Our first
five miles was in complete displacement mode. We ran between 1500 and
2000 RPMs with a ground speed of 9.3 to 10.3 MPH. The lake was very
sloppy, with 2-3 foot steep waves, mostly from the boat traffic within our
course. After 5.6 miles of bouncing around at our leisurely speed, the
counter did not increment once. When we turned the pump on manually, no
water came out. We then increased speed to between 2000 and 2500 RPMs
which put us at about 12 to 13MPH, just on the verge of a full plane.
The counter only incremented once. For our last leg we increased our RPMs
to about 2800 and the counter started incrementing aproximately every 1.5
miles. After the fifth increment, we slowed back down below 2000RPMs and
did not run the bilge manually.

At the dock I ran the bilge manually which pumped water for about thirty
seconds. I then pumped the remaining water out, which was less than five
gallons to dry the bilge. My guess was a total of about 18 gallons.

I am still suspecting the boat is splashing water into a thru-hull or
perhaps a lack of caulking on the underside of the hull deck joint
somewhere. The faster we travel, the more water splashes into this
unknown area. I think if this were leakage were due to a crack it would
show itself at the slower speeds still stressing the crack in rough water,
which it doesn't seem to. I'll need to get the boat on out on a calm day
to confirm.

My plans are to develop more foolproof monitoring methods and a more
methodical approach to get an accurate picture of what is happening. At
the very least, develope a solid baseline so the condition can be
monitored for deviation.

Questions? Comments? More importantly, solutions?

Bob Dimond

In article , wrote:

Thanks, Bob....will keep all this in mind when I go back to the boat
this weekend and investigate some more.

"Bob D." wrote:

Jim,

I'm having the same problem, and am still investigating it.

Here are some things to keep try or keep in mind.

What kind of boat?

--
-Netsock

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."
http://home.insight.rr.com/cgreen/
"Bob D." wrote in message
...
For those who have interest, either in solving their own problem or
helping out a fellow boater, I have continued troubleshooting my water
leakage problems over this past weekend.

[snip]

You know you aren't taking on any water at the dock, under normal
circumstances.

I suspect a cracked stem that is not visible when the hull is not being
stressed, or a failing htd joint.

To test for the latter, rig up a hose and spray water on the hull near the htd
joint in suspected areas. It would help to have somebody in the bilge observing
for water ingress. When you move the hose to a point and water begins appearing
in the bilge, you have found the problem area.

In addition, if you are taking on that much water through failing htd joint or
a breach well above the static water line, there could easily be visual
evidence on the interior of the hull. The water has to be running down the hull
to get to the bilge. Look for a small area that is super clean, or discolored,
still wet, or any of the other typical signs of a stream of water.

I owned a boat where they forget to caulk between the hull and topside, and
I was having the same problem you are. The solution was to remove the rub
rail, apply silicon between the two halves of the boat and then reinstall
the rub rail. It solved the problem.


"Bob D." wrote in message
...
For those who have interest, either in solving their own problem or
helping out a fellow boater, I have continued troubleshooting my water
leakage problems over this past weekend.

For those who have not read my previous postings on this subject, I am
taking on significant water underway, but not a drop while she is
dockside. My friend managed to track the water ingress as coming from
forward of the engine room bulkhead, but nothing more specific. I have
installed both a counter and a high water alarm for monitoring the
problem.

First, while installing a counter and not a chronometer seemed like a good
idea at the time, it is less than useful in all points of monitoring. I
believe it is more useful at the dock than a chronometer, as it can be
reset, and provides a clear indicator that something has happened without
having to use a logbook to store and retreive previous values. Underway,
the counter will cycle unecessarily as water sloshing in the bilge will
trigger the float to activate even if it is only a split second. I am
investigating putting a delay in the pump circuit where once the bilge
pump is activated it stays on for a predetermined length of time (say 15
seconds) to negate the inherent limitations of the counter alone.

At 5pm Friday afternoon, we headed out on on Lake Erie about 17 miles to
South Bass Island. I had planned on stuffing plastic bags into each
unecessary above the waterline thru-hull (with a string leading to the
deck for instant removal), to confirm or alleviate this suspect as a cause
of my problem. We neglected to do this as we did not have a dock reserved
at our destination, and wanted to leave enough daylight for our return
trip if necessary.

During our trip we were taking 1 to 3 footers on our forward port quarter,
with our ground speed ranging from 16 to 20 miles per hour. I was less
than methodical, failing to keep track of the miles between cyclings, as I
was counting on the counter to work adequately (stupid me). After going
from zero to a high cycle number on the counter, I figured out the problem
and whenever the counter activated, I manually ran the bilge for 30-60
seconds to insure the bilge pump drained everything it could with each
cycle, I then reset the counter. I did not keep track adequately, but
figured the water level increased enough to activate the float switch
between seven and ten times.

Sunday we left with a slightly more methodical approach. After leaving
the harbor, we broke our trip back into five mile increments. Our first
five miles was in complete displacement mode. We ran between 1500 and
2000 RPMs with a ground speed of 9.3 to 10.3 MPH. The lake was very
sloppy, with 2-3 foot steep waves, mostly from the boat traffic within our
course. After 5.6 miles of bouncing around at our leisurely speed, the
counter did not increment once. When we turned the pump on manually, no
water came out. We then increased speed to between 2000 and 2500 RPMs
which put us at about 12 to 13MPH, just on the verge of a full plane.
The counter only incremented once. For our last leg we increased our RPMs
to about 2800 and the counter started incrementing aproximately every 1.5
miles. After the fifth increment, we slowed back down below 2000RPMs and
did not run the bilge manually.

At the dock I ran the bilge manually which pumped water for about thirty
seconds. I then pumped the remaining water out, which was less than five
gallons to dry the bilge. My guess was a total of about 18 gallons.

I am still suspecting the boat is splashing water into a thru-hull or
perhaps a lack of caulking on the underside of the hull deck joint
somewhere. The faster we travel, the more water splashes into this
unknown area. I think if this were leakage were due to a crack it would
show itself at the slower speeds still stressing the crack in rough water,
which it doesn't seem to. I'll need to get the boat on out on a calm day
to confirm.

My plans are to develop more foolproof monitoring methods and a more
methodical approach to get an accurate picture of what is happening. At
the very least, develope a solid baseline so the condition can be
monitored for deviation.

Questions? Comments? More importantly, solutions?

Bob Dimond

In article , wrote:

Thanks, Bob....will keep all this in mind when I go back to the boat
this weekend and investigate some more.

"Bob D." wrote:

Jim,

I'm having the same problem, and am still investigating it.

Here are some things to keep try or keep in mind.

The boat is a 1988 Wellcraft Antigua 265. Powered by a 260HP mercruiser
alpha setup.

Bob Dimond

In article , "Netsock"
wrote:

What kind of boat?

"Bob D." wrote in message
...
For those who have interest, either in solving their own problem or
helping out a fellow boater, I have continued troubleshooting my water
leakage problems over this past weekend.

For those who have not read my previous postings on this subject, I am
taking on significant water underway, but not a drop while she is
dockside. My friend managed to track the water ingress as coming from
forward of the engine room bulkhead, but nothing more specific.
snip
I had a similar problem that turned out to be a crack in the underside of the rubber
boot that encases the shift cable. The only time it took in water was when the outdrive
was trimmed up. While dockside with the drive down, it took in no water. Are you sure
the water is coming foward of the engine compartment?
Dom

Well, I finally found my leak....it was just a hose clamp (2 of them)
at the very bottom of a hose where the water is sucked into the
engine....I never could see them, but the guy who came out today found
them and said it probably came from the manufacturer like that...it
took him some time and lots of bending/stretching to get to it...he
double checked all the other hose clamps even though I had done that
this past weekend...I have been getting water in the bilge ever since
I got the boat, but the dealer kept telling me SOME water was normal
and I was not getting a whole lot....now I am getting none....
Perhaps the dealer should reimburse me the service charge I had to
have this guy come out and fix it. I feel a whole lot better about
it now that there is absolutely no leak.

"D. Merenda" wrote:

"Bob D." wrote in message
...
For those who have interest, either in solving their own problem or
helping out a fellow boater, I have continued troubleshooting my water
leakage problems over this past weekend.

For those who have not read my previous postings on this subject, I am
taking on significant water underway, but not a drop while she is
dockside. My friend managed to track the water ingress as coming from
forward of the engine room bulkhead, but nothing more specific.
snip
I had a similar problem that turned out to be a crack in the underside of the rubber
boot that encases the shift cable. The only time it took in water was when the outdrive
was trimmed up. While dockside with the drive down, it took in no water. Are you sure
the water is coming foward of the engine compartment?
Dom

--
-
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 00:34:37 GMT, Jim Woodard
wrote:

I feel a whole lot better about
it now that there is absolutely no leak.

No doubt, and congratulations. Water should only come in the bilge
normally from the stuffing box, and many stuffing boxes today are the
"dripless" kind, which means there can reasonably be NO moisture in
the bilge except for humidity, spilled fluids, splash from the ocean,
wet lockers and Real Trouble, like failed hose clamps, cracked blocks,
cracked stern tubes, failed thru hulls and other Bad Stuff.

Were the clamps stainless steel? I have not heard of TWO failing at
once...that's why you have two instead of one, particularly below the
waterline. Or were they just not tightened properly? Regardless, you
should address this with the dealer.

R.

The hose clamps were stainless steel and they did not fail....they
were never tightened correctly or, as my previous boat mechanic
turned independent said, never tightened at all at the factory.
Sea Ray is supposed to have a better quality control than that.

rhys wrote:

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 00:34:37 GMT, Jim Woodard
wrote:

I feel a whole lot better about
it now that there is absolutely no leak.

No doubt, and congratulations. Water should only come in the bilge
normally from the stuffing box, and many stuffing boxes today are the
"dripless" kind, which means there can reasonably be NO moisture in
the bilge except for humidity, spilled fluids, splash from the ocean,
wet lockers and Real Trouble, like failed hose clamps, cracked blocks,
cracked stern tubes, failed thru hulls and other Bad Stuff.

Were the clamps stainless steel? I have not heard of TWO failing at
once...that's why you have two instead of one, particularly below the
waterline. Or were they just not tightened properly? Regardless, you
should address this with the dealer.

R.

--
-
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Thanks Dom,

My shift cable and all bellows were replaced before my initial launch this
year. The water is coming from forward of the engine compartment.

Bob Dimond



In article , "D.
Merenda" wrote:

I had a similar problem that turned out to be a crack in the underside
of the rubber
boot that encases the shift cable. The only time it took in water was
when the outdrive
was trimmed up. While dockside with the drive down, it took in no water.
Are you sure
the water is coming foward of the engine compartment?
Dom