Hi,

I have decided to purchase a boat and am very much leaning towards a used
house boat. I know little of boats really. My first question is; am I making
a sound decision to go with a houseboat vs cruiser as an entry level
experience? Also I seem to prefer a hull design rather than pontoon. Any one
have any comments? Comments in general greatly appreciated.

The one I am going to look at is a 40'1969 Thundercraft
Drift-a-cruise. My guess is there is a lot of updating etc which I can live
with. The price is $9,500 CDN. What do you think as a starting price for the
vintage?


Thanks,

Steve

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 20:43:16 -0400, "sel1" wrote:

Hi,

I have decided to purchase a boat and am very much leaning towards a used
house boat. I know little of boats really. My first question is; am I making
a sound decision to go with a houseboat vs cruiser as an entry level
experience? Also I seem to prefer a hull design rather than pontoon. Any one
have any comments? Comments in general greatly appreciated.

The one I am going to look at is a 40'1969 Thundercraft
Drift-a-cruise. My guess is there is a lot of updating etc which I can live
with. The price is $9,500 CDN. What do you think as a starting price for the
vintage?


Thanks,

Steve

If you don't want to go ANYWHERE and want to live on the water, a
houseboat would suit that need.

But do I sense a troll at work here?

If you're for real...don't buy that 40 year old houseboat! You'll be
sorry!

John C.

Excuse my ignorance on boats. Would you have the same comment if I were
buying an old cruiser (probably all wood) to fixup/restore. With any boat
that age I fully expect to sink some cash into it over a couple of years.
Are houseboats more of a terror than a cruiser would be?

I have read many newsgroups and web sites and there are many people who
travel by houseboat. What do you mean you you say "If you don't want to go
ANYWHERE". There seems to be a rather high demand for rental houseboats on
the Rideau canal system, the great lakes etc etc. From my visits to marinas,
there are far more houseboats than cruisers to rent.

Anxious to share your experiences. I really don't want to make a "huge"
mistake.

Steve

If you don't want to go ANYWHERE and want to live on the water, a
houseboat would suit that need.

But do I sense a troll at work here?

If you're for real...don't buy that 40 year old houseboat! You'll be
sorry!

John C.

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:17:37 -0400, "sel1" wrote:
I have read many newsgroups and web sites and there are many people who
travel by houseboat. What do you mean you you say "If you don't want to go
ANYWHERE". There seems to be a rather high demand for rental houseboats on
the Rideau canal system, the great lakes etc etc. From my visits to marinas,
there are far more houseboats than cruisers to rent.

==============================================
The biggest issue with houseboats is seaworthiness which is probably
what inspired the original response. They are big roomy boats but
have low freeboard, a huge amount of windage, and are top heavy. All
of that means they are suitable only in well protected water such as
rivers, canals, small lakes, bays, etc. They are totally unsuited to
open water conditions such as the great lakes. I have seen houseboats
on the Rideau take water over the bow and into the cabin from
relatively small boat wakes. They also have trouble maneuvering in
the locks because the high windage and shallow draft makes them prone
to being blown sideways in close quarters.

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:17:37 -0400, "sel1" wrote:

Excuse my ignorance on boats. Would you have the same comment if I were
buying an old cruiser (probably all wood) to fixup/restore. With any boat
that age I fully expect to sink some cash into it over a couple of years.
Are houseboats more of a terror than a cruiser would be?

I have read many newsgroups and web sites and there are many people who
travel by houseboat. What do you mean you you say "If you don't want to go
ANYWHERE". There seems to be a rather high demand for rental houseboats on
the Rideau canal system, the great lakes etc etc. From my visits to marinas,
there are far more houseboats than cruisers to rent.

Anxious to share your experiences. I really don't want to make a "huge"
mistake.

I have a Gibson 36 housboat.

The boat is very well suited for its intended use: gunkholing and weekending
around the Sacramento and San Joaquin River Delta area. We have over 1,000
miles of navigable waterways to explore.

Here's what I like about my houseboat:

At 36 x 12 feet, it is very roomy. The boat sleeps 6 adults, but more than
that, it has a great deal of deck space for hanging out.

It's basically a big ol' scow, drawing 22 inches (plus the outdrive). This
means that it is very easy to run the boat right up to shore, step off onto the
beach with a line and tie up to a tree. It's also a good way to develop the
habit of knowing what the tide is doing when you come to shore (don't ask).

It is very economical to operate. Mine has a single 145 HP Volvo, and burns
(I'm guessing) just a couple of g.p.h. With its huge engine compartment, it is
very easy to work on, as well.

Here's what's not so good--for my purposes:

It's not suitable for taking off the river. A houseboat has very low freeboard,
a great deal of side area and a flat bottom. Even on the river, it's like
driving a big forklift with a sail. Taking it out of the protected waters of
the Delta would be nothing short of disaster. I'm looking for a boat that I can
take out on the San Francisco Bay and possibly outside, so my next boat will be
a trawler.

I bought my boat about three years ago. I did not get an out-of-the-water
survey, for which I have slight regrets. While I did get an excellent buy, the
survey could have eliminated a few surprises. I would have been able to plan
for some of the larger expenditures I've had to make. I would also have paid
less for insurance, as most insurance carriers will require one. I would NEVR
buy any boat without a hull and engine survey. I'd select my own surveyors and
hang over their shoulder as they did the inspections.

Overall, we have enjoyed ours.

HTH,
Joe Parsons



Steve

If you don't want to go ANYWHERE and want to live on the water, a
houseboat would suit that need.

But do I sense a troll at work here?

If you're for real...don't buy that 40 year old houseboat! You'll be
sorry!

John C.

"sel1" wrote in message
.. .
There seems to be a rather high demand for rental houseboats on
the Rideau canal system, the great lakes etc etc. From my visits to
marinas,
there are far more houseboats than cruisers to rent.

You should inquire as to how the average rental customer USES those
houseboats on the Great Lakes. The mere presence of those boats doesn't
speak to their seaworthiness. One afternoon on Lake Ontario when it's in an
"interesting" mood and you'll see what I mean. You may even be able to tell
your friends about it after you're finished with trauma counseling. :-)

Anxious to share your experiences. I really don't want to make a "huge"
mistake.

Steve

If you don't want to go ANYWHERE and want to live on the water, a
houseboat would suit that need.

But do I sense a troll at work here?

If you're for real...don't buy that 40 year old houseboat! You'll be
sorry!

John C.

Sorry to sound so negative, it's just that a you can get into some big
problems with old boats. The bigger the boat, the bigger and more
expensive the problems and if it's your first boat you may be in for
WAY more than you expected.
If you're going to buy an old houseboat like that, make very sure that
you get it well inspected.
Like others mentioned, they are not very seaworthy so you really
can't plan on using it like others would use a cabin cruiser.
Good luck! ,..don't let my comments or others stop you if it's what
you really want to do... just go into it with open eyes and very
cautiously!
John C.

You didn't mention the drive line in the Drift R Cruise that you are
considering buying. A lot of the house boats built in the '60s used the
old Chrysers Drive 90. I spent some time on a friends '67 River Queen
with this drive and it was constant trouble. Plus, the fact that parts
would be almost impossible to get at this point in time.. He took it
into Lake Erie for a weeks vacation and on his return, slammed the keys
on the brokers desk and said, "Sell that @#$%^& boat!!!"

Happy boating
======
Norm

"sel1" wrote in message ...


The one I am going to look at is a 40'1969 Thundercraft
Drift-a-cruise. My guess is there is a lot of updating etc which I can live
with. The price is $9,500 CDN.

Something you really want to ascertain is the condition of the
hull,especially on the inside.A friend bought a boathouse on the
Mississippi in Minnesota in 2001 and a 1960's steel houseboat came
with it.The outside of the hull looked fine but on the inside from the
waterline down was pure rust caused by condensation,the outside cool
water keeping the steel cool below the waterline which condensed the
humidity in the air.The majority of the hull was inaccessable, the
floors and walls sealing it all off.We hauled it to fix a leak and
found that you could easily drive a screwdriver through the hull in a
number of places.The boathouse,houseboat,dock and the land for
parking,a toilet and storage shed with a perpetual lease from the
Corps of Engineers($15 a year)cost $12,500.

"sel1" wrote in message
.. .
Hi,

I am jumping into the discussion a bit late, so sorry if its too late.

My first question is; am I making
a sound decision to go with a houseboat vs cruiser as an entry level
experience?

Without knowing anything about how you intend to use the boat I can't really
say. A houseboat provides the most living space per foot of boat than
anything else. A cruiser is faster and more sea worthy.

My first boat was a 30 year old, 25 foot wooden hull cruiser. It suited my
wife and I and our two toddlers fairly well. I went a lot of semi-protected
places in that boat (it didn't handle rough water all that well). It slept
two adults and two kids, and that was it.

When the kids got bigger that boat was just too small. I moved up to a 36'
Carver Mariner. That boat was sea-worthy and a lot faster. I traveled
longer distances and into unprotected water on a regular basis. There were a
few places I simply couldn't go, however, because it didn't fit under the
bridge. This boat slept four in dedicated beds, 4 more in the salon and
dinette, and a couple of time we slept another one or two in the flybridge.

The kids became teenagers and always wanted to bring friends. Sports and
other kid's activities ruled out the down bay cruises during the school
year. The ski boat was logging many more hours than the cruiser. I finally
sold the cruiser and bought a 55 foot houseboat. This boat sleeps 6 in
dedicated beds, two more on the sofa bed, and as many people as you want on
the roof. On several weekends I have had 15 people on board. This boat
moves real slow, is hard to dock, and is a bitch when it comes to anchors.
But it suits us well right now.

Once the kids leave home I will be looking for an express cruiser, something
in the 35 foot range. Until then I have this floating RV. It is really
comfortable, but it is an entirely different form of boating that what a
cruiser would provide.

Also I seem to prefer a hull design rather than pontoon. Any one
have any comments? Comments in general greatly appreciated.

Pontoon vs hull each have their advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages of pontoon:
1) They are really hard to sink. Even if a pontoon ruptures, they are
generally divided into sections and the boat will just list a little, it
won't sink. On a hull style boat, springing a leak (like having the boot
around the outdrive rupture) can lead to a total loss.

2) A pontoon boat doesn't have a hull to collect gas/propane fumes. Thus,
they are much safer with respect to propane stove and refrigerator. If you
like to anchor out a lot, having propane refrigerator is a wonderful thing.

3) Pontoons are generally very sleek in the water and they move about with
very little effort. Slowly, but with little effort, hence they don't burn
as much gas, use smaller engines, etc.

4) Pontoons are generally a shallower draft, and the pontoons will generally
take a bit of a beating and are more suitable for pulling up to beaches and
such.


Hulls have their advantages too:

a) All that hull space provides for a LOT of storage.

b) The larger hull space allows for larger engines, generators, etc.

c) You can get more living space down low due having cabin at or below the
waterline.


My houseboat is a pontoon style, and it suits me well. There are a few
things I don't like about it, however. The very shallow draft make them slip
sideways really bad in a cross wind. There is no chain locker, and no
winch. The anchor has to be pulled manually and then stowed.

While the boat is very stable with respect to people moving about, a pontoon
boat actually rocks more from boat wakes than a hull boat does. This
surprised me at first, but consider this: When a wake hits the side of a
hull it tends to pass underneath and lift the boat vertically in the
process. There is a small amount of "rock" as the increase in bouyancy moves
past the center of mass, but the overall mass of the boat naturally wants to
resist this. The result is more of a vertical lift than a rock.

On a pontoon boat, the wake acts on each pontoon, or hull, individually. A
6 inch wake hitting broadside will lift the first pontoon 6 inches. The
boat leans that amount. Moments later the wake reaches the other pontoon,
and lifts it 6 inches. The boat leans the other way. Now imagin you get a 1
foot wake, and the peak of one is hitting one pontoon while the trough
reaches the other pontoon. That's a two foot difference and the boat is
really rockin!

Another disadvantage of a pontoon boat is that the bow has very little extra
lift. When a hull hits a wake/wave head on the wave hits the hull and
provides a dramatic amount of extra bouyancy. If you are not driving into
the wave too fast the extra lift will carry the boat up and over the wave.

There isn't much of anything for the wave to act on in the front of a
pontoon boat. The couple of extra inches that the wave can act on the
leading edge of the pontoon just isn't going to get the bow lifted up.
Hence, if your deck is 16 inches above the water, and you enconter an 18
inch wake, it crashes over the top of the deck.

The one I am going to look at is a 40'1969 Thundercraft
Drift-a-cruise. My guess is there is a lot of updating etc which I can
live
with. The price is $9,500 CDN. What do you think as a starting price for
the
vintage?

A 34 year old boat of any construction could have a lot of issues. I am not
familiar with the boat, and I don't even know where you are. This could be
a deal, or it could be a total waste depending on the condition of the boat
and what sort of accomodations it has.

My best advice is to get a survey before you buy ANY used boat. It can be
argued that a survey is a good idea even on a new boat.

The standard practice is to make an offer on a boat contingent on a
sucessful sea trail and acceptable survey (note I didn't say "clean" survey,
such a thing doesn't exist!). If the seller agrees, you take the boat on a
"sea trial", which often is the trip to the boat yard. At the boat yard you
(the buyer) pay for the boat to be hauled out and for the survey. Here in
California I would expect to pay $10 a foot to have the boat hauled out and
another $10 a foot to have the survey done, so you would be looking at
around $800 for this.

On a boat that old I am sure the survey is going to find all sorts of
things. In the end, the survey will include an appraisal for what the boat
is worth, often two: one as is and one if the major items are fixed.

Take this survey and renegotiate with the seller. Some things he may say he
just isn't going to fix. Others he will get fixed. Some things he may
offer to split with you or make other price adjustments. It is also
possible that the survey will report that this boat is simply not worth what
the seller is asking, and if you can't reach a compromise you ask for you
deposit back and walk away. You will be out $800 but that might be a whole
lot better than being out $9500.

If the deal does close then you take possesion of the boat while it is still
in the boat yard. Now do the maintenance that needs to be done with the
boat out of the water. Paint the bottom. Install new zincs. Fix any dings
in the prop. Get the boat ready to go for another year or two. Get the work
done, launch the boat and enjoy.

Rod McInnis