Is there a better group than this for sailing? The ones I found were pretty
dead.

Yesterday I went out to sail my 13' boat, for what might be about the last
day this year. It is pretty narrow with big sails (a Starwing) and the wind
was rather stronger than forecast, about 15-20. That is way too strong for
me, so I didn't use the jib. In hindsight I should have reefed the main,
but that takes too long.

Had real problems on jibes and tacks. On tacks the boat would just stall
out, and I had to wait for a wind shift to help me out. That never happens
with my jib up. Any tips, or is it just a problem with not using the jib.
The jibes were much worse. The boom swung around violently, and the boat
nearly capsized twice. Again, I have never had that problem; but I have
also never had an unreefed main out in wind like that. Any tips for this
one? (I mean, other than "Learn to sail")

Finally, when I was just trying to sail straight, I was pretty much hiked
out as far as I could go. What do you do in that situation with an even
stronger wind gust? Without the jib, I steer a bit into the wind; with the
jib all I can think to do it let the main out to shed wind. Is there
anything better?

Thanks much.

Is there a better group than this for sailing? The ones I found were pretty
dead.

rec.boats.cruising is about 75% sailors

Thank you, I will repost there.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 03:36:00 GMT, "John" wrote:

Is there a better group than this for sailing? The ones I found were pretty
dead.

Yesterday I went out to sail my 13' boat, for what might be about the last
day this year. It is pretty narrow with big sails (a Starwing) and the wind
was rather stronger than forecast, about 15-20. That is way too strong for
me, so I didn't use the jib. In hindsight I should have reefed the main,
but that takes too long.

Had real problems on jibes and tacks. On tacks the boat would just stall
out, and I had to wait for a wind shift to help me out. That never happens
with my jib up. Any tips, or is it just a problem with not using the jib.
The jibes were much worse. The boom swung around violently, and the boat
nearly capsized twice. Again, I have never had that problem; but I have
also never had an unreefed main out in wind like that. Any tips for this
one? (I mean, other than "Learn to sail")

Not be be a wiseass, but that is really the answer. Applying the mass
and inertia relationship through a turn with a wind powered vessel is
not something that is easily explained. Even big time racing sailors
screw this up from time to time. The key is that you don't have that
problem with the jib up. Think about it for a minute and you'll
understand why.

It's really all about keeping way on while making the tack. As to
violence of the boom swing, that is also experience, but the boom will
swing with some speed when coming about or changing tack in any real
wind. It's all about controlling that. Based on your explanation,
you probably had the boom hauled in tight and didn't let it out at all
to compensate for the increased wind strength.

Finally, when I was just trying to sail straight, I was pretty much hiked
out as far as I could go. What do you do in that situation with an even
stronger wind gust? Without the jib, I steer a bit into the wind; with the
jib all I can think to do it let the main out to shed wind. Is there
anything better?

Let out the boom a little to reduce your hiking angle.

And again, no offence meant here, but take some sailing lessons.

Good luck.

Later,

Tom

John wrote:
Is there a better group than this for sailing? The ones I found were pretty
dead.

Maybe they just seem that way because this one is so lively:-)


Yesterday I went out to sail my 13' boat, for what might be about the last
day this year. It is pretty narrow with big sails (a Starwing) and the wind
was rather stronger than forecast, about 15-20. That is way too strong for
me, so I didn't use the jib. In hindsight I should have reefed the main,
but that takes too long.

Might have been a bit much for a 13 ft boat, to be deliberately out
in?? But if you enjoy it then you need to approach it a little better,
the "drive" needs to be as close the the bow & centre of the boat as
possible & you need to reduce sail so the amount of heel is managable,
heel moves the centre of force outside the boat itself, especially in
smaller boats.


Had real problems on jibes and tacks. On tacks the boat would just stall
out, and I had to wait for a wind shift to help me out. That never happens
with my jib up. Any tips, or is it just a problem with not using the jib.

All the above, it's a small boat with not much displacement (read mass) so;

(i) it has not much inertia, when trying to come about in the stronger
wind & presumable the wind waves caused by same,

(ii) it can easily loose it's way & effectively stop, with just the main
up, even when it's not sheeted on, it's drag acts like a weather vane,
keeping the the bow from swinging,

(iii) if you had dropped the main & used just the headsail, then you
would probably still have finished in irons, because of the lack of
momentum & the conditions, however she would have fallen off much
easier/more quickly, hopefully in the direction you intended:-).

The jibes were much worse. The boom swung around violently, and the boat
nearly capsized twice. Again, I have never had that problem; but I have
also never had an unreefed main out in wind like that. Any tips for this
one? (I mean, other than "Learn to sail")

Again, with just the main up you are pushing a small boat from behind &
with the combination of excessive heeling & the main sheeted well out
the driving force is way out to one side (i.e. the centre of pressure &
therefore effort is what?? 4 or 5 ft outside the lee gunwale??) so it
tends to roundup much easier than when pulled along by the headsail. If
you really must use just the main, try sheeting it in hard as you jibe,
after it swings then slowly let the sheet pressure off & feed it out.


Finally, when I was just trying to sail straight, I was pretty much hiked
out as far as I could go. What do you do in that situation with an even
stronger wind gust? Without the jib, I steer a bit into the wind; with the
jib all I can think to do it let the main out to shed wind. Is there
anything better?

You already know you should have reefed, letting the sheet out till you
spill wind is not good, because as mentioned above your centre of
pressure moves too far outside the boat, tending to make it try to
roundup every time there's an even small gust in the wind, which you see
as the boat steering all over the place.

K



Thanks much.

In cases where you can not come through the wind on a tack you can go
the other way, but it takes more room. If you are tacking from a 310
degree course to a 50 degree course and can not make it, go the other
way around. Shift the course slowly from 310, 200, 180 130 until you can
bring the boat back to the desired 50 degree course. This will involve
bring the boom over while running.

As I understand it was a standard maneuver for a large square rig
sailing vessel.

John wrote:
Is there a better group than this for sailing? The ones I found were pretty
dead.

Yesterday I went out to sail my 13' boat, for what might be about the last
day this year. It is pretty narrow with big sails (a Starwing) and the wind
was rather stronger than forecast, about 15-20. That is way too strong for
me, so I didn't use the jib. In hindsight I should have reefed the main,
but that takes too long.

Had real problems on jibes and tacks. On tacks the boat would just stall
out, and I had to wait for a wind shift to help me out. That never happens
with my jib up. Any tips, or is it just a problem with not using the jib.
The jibes were much worse. The boom swung around violently, and the boat
nearly capsized twice. Again, I have never had that problem; but I have
also never had an unreefed main out in wind like that. Any tips for this
one? (I mean, other than "Learn to sail")

Finally, when I was just trying to sail straight, I was pretty much hiked
out as far as I could go. What do you do in that situation with an even
stronger wind gust? Without the jib, I steer a bit into the wind; with the
jib all I can think to do it let the main out to shed wind. Is there
anything better?

Thanks much.

K. Smith wrote:
Might have been a bit much for a 13 ft boat, to be deliberately out
in??

What, 15 ~ 20 knot wind is too much to sail ing? Only if you're a
chicken****.


... But if you enjoy it then you need to approach it a little better,
the "drive" needs to be as close the the bow & centre of the boat as
possible & you need to reduce sail so the amount of heel is managable,
heel moves the centre of force outside the boat itself, especially in
smaller boats.

WTF kind of gibberish is this?

Go back to blabbering about engines. You don't know anything about them
either, but at least it's funny.

Hey wait, is your day job writing speeches for Vice President Cheney?

DSK

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:02:26 -0400, DSK wrote:

K. Smith wrote:
Might have been a bit much for a 13 ft boat, to be deliberately out
in??

What, 15 ~ 20 knot wind is too much to sail ing? Only if you're a
chicken****.


... But if you enjoy it then you need to approach it a little better,
the "drive" needs to be as close the the bow & centre of the boat as
possible & you need to reduce sail so the amount of heel is managable,
heel moves the centre of force outside the boat itself, especially in
smaller boats.

WTF kind of gibberish is this?

Go back to blabbering about engines. You don't know anything about them
either, but at least it's funny.

Hey wait, is your day job writing speeches for Vice President Cheney?

DSK

Man, that was just mean. :)

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717