After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the
engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and
fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Pumped out water,
flushed cyl. (sprayed inside the cylinders and cranked) with WD-40 few times
until dry and finally sprayed 1 can of fogging oil into all 8 cylinders. I
pulled the intake manifold and there is lots of rust in the intake passages
in both, intake manifold and both cylinder heads. Since all 8 cyl. were
flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust.
(verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust
altogether). Same issue. I also noticed rust on the bottom of the carb (4
barrel). My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes
in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood
all 8 cyl. at once. Please indicate how to test, diagnose the problem. Any
thoughts on the intake idea?
Thx,
Paul

--
"Paul" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the
engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and
fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Pumped out water,
flushed cyl. (sprayed inside the cylinders and cranked) with WD-40 few
times
until dry and finally sprayed 1 can of fogging oil into all 8 cylinders. I
pulled the intake manifold and there is lots of rust in the intake
passages
in both, intake manifold and both cylinder heads. Since all 8 cyl. were
flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust.
(verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust
altogether). Same issue. I also noticed rust on the bottom of the carb (4
barrel). My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders
intakes
in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood
all 8 cyl. at once. Please indicate how to test, diagnose the problem. Any
thoughts on the intake idea?
Thx,
Paul

I had the same problem this year in my boat. I have 454 chevys. Water was in
several cyls. last fall when we winterized. We run it clean and fogged it
heavy. In the spring both motors had water in several cylinders again. There
was even 3 or 4 qts. of water in the oil in both motors. The problem was the
boat cover over time lost its waterproof qualities and rain water was able
to run on the motors. The air cleaners are poorly designed for water running
on the top air cleaner cover. Water will run into the wire screen elements
and into the carbs. After discovering this I now put plastic bags over the
air cleaners after use and have had no more water trouble. A better answer
would be to put another type of air cleaner top on ( bigger than the orig).
Maybe a china cap type thing.
Dixon

Possibly getting in thru the spark arrestor. Or a cracked/rusted out intake
manifold.

"Paul" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the
engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and
fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Pumped out water,
flushed cyl. (sprayed inside the cylinders and cranked) with WD-40 few
times
until dry and finally sprayed 1 can of fogging oil into all 8 cylinders. I
pulled the intake manifold and there is lots of rust in the intake
passages
in both, intake manifold and both cylinder heads. Since all 8 cyl. were
flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust.
(verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust
altogether). Same issue. I also noticed rust on the bottom of the carb (4
barrel). My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders
intakes
in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood
all 8 cyl. at once. Please indicate how to test, diagnose the problem. Any
thoughts on the intake idea?
Thx,
Paul

Intake looks great from top and is in generally v. good condition. Of course
I cannot eliminate water getting into the intake through flame arrestor
(especially that I do not have a special cover that goes on top) but when
the engine is run on a water hose there is steam coming out of the outdrive
that would indicate some leak. Both head gaskets were replaced and the old
ones did not show any leakage or damage.
Here's my trouble:
- can't imagine cracked block as this would not fill the cylinders with
water (not all of them at once), or will it?
- head gaskets replaced, intake manifold inspected and intake gaskets
replaced (no crack signs from the bottom)
- rust in all intake passages from carb and under the carb
- rust in the head intakes, both sides especially the middle passages
closest to the carb
- water in the oil, oil filter and crankcase
- cylinders filled with fresh water (quite a lot)
- no indication of a cracked block (on the outside)
- no watermarks on the flame arrestor indicating water dripping from the
engine cover
- steam from the exhaust (that eliminates water dripping into the intake)
- exhaust manifolds were cleaned and there are no rust marks inside
- the only rusted area is the bottom of the carb, inside of the intake
manifold and all cylinders/spark plugs.

I tried to look into every possibility and am still puzzled. Only
explanation would be a cracked intake manifold leaking into the intake
passages then via cylinders down into the crankcase. Am I wrong? How to
pinpoint the source of the problem?





"JamesgangNC" wrote in message
ink.net...
Possibly getting in thru the spark arrestor. Or a cracked/rusted out
intake
manifold.

"Paul" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank
the
engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked
and
fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded. Pumped out water,
flushed cyl. (sprayed inside the cylinders and cranked) with WD-40 few
times
until dry and finally sprayed 1 can of fogging oil into all 8 cylinders.
I
pulled the intake manifold and there is lots of rust in the intake
passages
in both, intake manifold and both cylinder heads. Since all 8 cyl. were
flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust.
(verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating
exhaust
altogether). Same issue. I also noticed rust on the bottom of the carb
(4
barrel). My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders
intakes
in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would
flood
all 8 cyl. at once. Please indicate how to test, diagnose the problem.
Any
thoughts on the intake idea?
Thx,
Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank the
engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked and
fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded.

Does this mean that water came out of all 8 cylinders after yo had removed
the plugs?

Since all 8 cyl. were
flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust.
(verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating exhaust
altogether).

I am not sure what you mean here. How does creating a closed loop cooling
eliminate the exhaust? Did you create a closed loop cooling system, run the
motor and have all 8 cylinders fill with water again?

When you ran the motor this way, did you not have any water running through
the exhaust system?

My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes
in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would flood
all 8 cyl. at once.

If I understand the situation properly it doesn't sound like the water
enters the cylinder(s) while the engine is running, but rather after the
engine is shut down. If you get water into one cylinder it is easy for it
to migrate to the other cylinders, all it takes is for the intake valve to
be open. The water will flow from the flooded cylinder up into the intake
manifold. At least one other intake valve will be open at the same time
which means it will flood also. When you crank the engine the remaining
cylinders will draw in any water remaining in the intake manifold and they
will flood as well.

You apparently have a leak between the water jacket and either a cylinder
directly or into the intake manifold. This could be from a gasket failure,
either the head gasket (fairly common failure) or the intake manifold gasket
(pretty rare, but certainly possible). If the failure is in the head gasket
a compression check should show which cylinder is the problem.

If the problem is not a gasket then I would bet that the intake manifold has
rusted through to the cooling system. If you still have your "closed
system" rigged up try pressurizing it and seeing if it holds pressure. This
is a standard test on radiator systems, and you can purchase a small pump
and pressure guage that installs in place of the radiator cap for this
purpose. The cooling system should be able to hold 13 PSI without any
significant loss.

Rod

"rmcinnis" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank
the
engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked
and
fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded.

Does this mean that water came out of all 8 cylinders after yo had removed
the plugs?

Since all 8 cyl. were
flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust.
(verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating
exhaust
altogether).

I am not sure what you mean here. How does creating a closed loop cooling
eliminate the exhaust? Did you create a closed loop cooling system, run
the
motor and have all 8 cylinders fill with water again?

When you ran the motor this way, did you not have any water running
through
the exhaust system?

My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes
in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would
flood
all 8 cyl. at once.

If I understand the situation properly it doesn't sound like the water
enters the cylinder(s) while the engine is running, but rather after the
engine is shut down. If you get water into one cylinder it is easy for it
to migrate to the other cylinders, all it takes is for the intake valve to
be open. The water will flow from the flooded cylinder up into the intake
manifold. At least one other intake valve will be open at the same time
which means it will flood also. When you crank the engine the remaining
cylinders will draw in any water remaining in the intake manifold and they
will flood as well.

You apparently have a leak between the water jacket and either a cylinder
directly or into the intake manifold. This could be from a gasket failure,
either the head gasket (fairly common failure) or the intake manifold
gasket
(pretty rare, but certainly possible). If the failure is in the head
gasket
a compression check should show which cylinder is the problem.

If the problem is not a gasket then I would bet that the intake manifold
has
rusted through to the cooling system. If you still have your "closed
system" rigged up try pressurizing it and seeing if it holds pressure.
This
is a standard test on radiator systems, and you can purchase a small pump
and pressure guage that installs in place of the radiator cap for this
purpose. The cooling system should be able to hold 13 PSI without any
significant loss.

Rod



Cheaper to take the boat to someone to do the pressure test. It is about
$135 for the radiator pressure tester. They have been making these things
for 50 years, and the price is still way to high.

Yes, water was presesnt in all cylinders, all plugs were wet and most of the
water was in the middle cyl. 4,6,3,7 but also in the rest of them. Intake
passages are nicely red, so are the connecting cyl. head ports.

I created a closed loop bypassing exhaust altogether, only the block, heads
and intake was in the loop. Water inlet was inside the bucket, so was the
outlet that would normally lead to exhaust manifolds. You could see the
engine sucking from and throwing water back out into the bucket.

Engine also takes the water running (steam) but it is all more apparent whan
you shut down.
I can't comprehend the idea of water travelling from one cyl to another.
Cylinders are air-tight´and intake valve is open only during the downstroke
so how could the piston push water out into the intake (?). That would make
the engine fail any compression test wouldn't it?
As to compression, it is 150-170 on all cyl.
Head gaskets were replaced and old ones were still good, no problem. Bottom
of the carb is quite badly rusted indicating that it has freq. contact with
water (?).
This is a major leak and lots of water enters the engine and cylinders.



"rmcinnis" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank
the
engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked
and
fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded.

Does this mean that water came out of all 8 cylinders after yo had removed
the plugs?

Since all 8 cyl. were
flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust.
(verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating
exhaust
altogether).

I am not sure what you mean here. How does creating a closed loop cooling
eliminate the exhaust? Did you create a closed loop cooling system, run
the
motor and have all 8 cylinders fill with water again?

When you ran the motor this way, did you not have any water running
through
the exhaust system?

My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes
in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would
flood
all 8 cyl. at once.

If I understand the situation properly it doesn't sound like the water
enters the cylinder(s) while the engine is running, but rather after the
engine is shut down. If you get water into one cylinder it is easy for it
to migrate to the other cylinders, all it takes is for the intake valve to
be open. The water will flow from the flooded cylinder up into the intake
manifold. At least one other intake valve will be open at the same time
which means it will flood also. When you crank the engine the remaining
cylinders will draw in any water remaining in the intake manifold and they
will flood as well.

You apparently have a leak between the water jacket and either a cylinder
directly or into the intake manifold. This could be from a gasket failure,
either the head gasket (fairly common failure) or the intake manifold
gasket
(pretty rare, but certainly possible). If the failure is in the head
gasket
a compression check should show which cylinder is the problem.

If the problem is not a gasket then I would bet that the intake manifold
has
rusted through to the cooling system. If you still have your "closed
system" rigged up try pressurizing it and seeing if it holds pressure.
This
is a standard test on radiator systems, and you can purchase a small pump
and pressure guage that installs in place of the radiator cap for this
purpose. The cooling system should be able to hold 13 PSI without any
significant loss.

Rod

The problem with pressure test is that it won't show the leak placement if
I'm correct. It would be a great after-repair confirmation that everything
is OK though, especially in comparison with the initial one. I have no
testing equip. and can't take the boat to the repair shop (boat is on blocks
now). I've put the engine back together after replacing both head gaskets
and it failed the probe miserably so I have to revisit the issue again.



"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"rmcinnis" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't crank
the
engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs, cranked
and
fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded.

Does this mean that water came out of all 8 cylinders after yo had
removed
the plugs?

Since all 8 cyl. were
flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust.
(verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating
exhaust
altogether).

I am not sure what you mean here. How does creating a closed loop
cooling
eliminate the exhaust? Did you create a closed loop cooling system, run
the
motor and have all 8 cylinders fill with water again?

When you ran the motor this way, did you not have any water running
through
the exhaust system?

My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes
in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would
flood
all 8 cyl. at once.

If I understand the situation properly it doesn't sound like the water
enters the cylinder(s) while the engine is running, but rather after the
engine is shut down. If you get water into one cylinder it is easy for
it
to migrate to the other cylinders, all it takes is for the intake valve
to
be open. The water will flow from the flooded cylinder up into the
intake
manifold. At least one other intake valve will be open at the same time
which means it will flood also. When you crank the engine the remaining
cylinders will draw in any water remaining in the intake manifold and
they
will flood as well.

You apparently have a leak between the water jacket and either a
cylinder
directly or into the intake manifold. This could be from a gasket
failure,
either the head gasket (fairly common failure) or the intake manifold
gasket
(pretty rare, but certainly possible). If the failure is in the head
gasket
a compression check should show which cylinder is the problem.

If the problem is not a gasket then I would bet that the intake manifold
has
rusted through to the cooling system. If you still have your "closed
system" rigged up try pressurizing it and seeing if it holds pressure.
This
is a standard test on radiator systems, and you can purchase a small
pump
and pressure guage that installs in place of the radiator cap for this
purpose. The cooling system should be able to hold 13 PSI without any
significant loss.

Rod



Cheaper to take the boat to someone to do the pressure test. It is about
$135 for the radiator pressure tester. They have been making these things
for 50 years, and the price is still way to high.

"Paul" wrote in message
.rogers.com...
The problem with pressure test is that it won't show the leak placement if
I'm correct. It would be a great after-repair confirmation that everything
is OK though, especially in comparison with the initial one. I have no
testing equip. and can't take the boat to the repair shop (boat is on
blocks
now). I've put the engine back together after replacing both head gaskets
and it failed the probe miserably so I have to revisit the issue again.



"Calif Bill" wrote in message
nk.net...

"rmcinnis" wrote in message
...

"Paul" wrote in message
. cable.rogers.com...
After taking the boat out just a few times this your I couldn't
crank
the
engine anymore. Replaced the starter, removed all spark plugs,
cranked
and
fount all cylinders in a 5L V8 OMC 305 engine flooded.

Does this mean that water came out of all 8 cylinders after yo had
removed
the plugs?

Since all 8 cyl. were
flooded at the same time with fresh water I do not suspect exhaust.
(verified by creating a closed loop coolant system and eliminating
exhaust
altogether).

I am not sure what you mean here. How does creating a closed loop
cooling
eliminate the exhaust? Did you create a closed loop cooling system,
run
the
motor and have all 8 cylinders fill with water again?

When you ran the motor this way, did you not have any water running
through
the exhaust system?

My suspect is a leak between cooling passages and cylinders intakes
in the intake manifold. Can't also imagine how a cracked block would
flood
all 8 cyl. at once.

If I understand the situation properly it doesn't sound like the water
enters the cylinder(s) while the engine is running, but rather after
the
engine is shut down. If you get water into one cylinder it is easy
for
it
to migrate to the other cylinders, all it takes is for the intake
valve
to
be open. The water will flow from the flooded cylinder up into the
intake
manifold. At least one other intake valve will be open at the same
time
which means it will flood also. When you crank the engine the
remaining
cylinders will draw in any water remaining in the intake manifold and
they
will flood as well.

You apparently have a leak between the water jacket and either a
cylinder
directly or into the intake manifold. This could be from a gasket
failure,
either the head gasket (fairly common failure) or the intake manifold
gasket
(pretty rare, but certainly possible). If the failure is in the head
gasket
a compression check should show which cylinder is the problem.

If the problem is not a gasket then I would bet that the intake
manifold
has
rusted through to the cooling system. If you still have your "closed
system" rigged up try pressurizing it and seeing if it holds pressure.
This
is a standard test on radiator systems, and you can purchase a small
pump
and pressure guage that installs in place of the radiator cap for this
purpose. The cooling system should be able to hold 13 PSI without any
significant loss.

Rod



Cheaper to take the boat to someone to do the pressure test. It is
about
$135 for the radiator pressure tester. They have been making these
things
for 50 years, and the price is still way to high.





Did you have the heads machined when replacing gaskets? Sometimes the angle
between the head and the intake changes enough that the intake does not seal
to the heads. Pull the intake and look at the gasket to see if it is
compressed all over. Auto parts stores do rent tools and you may be able to
rent a pressure checker.

Pictures are at the bottom of the previous post of mine. Forgot to delete
the text in-between. Sorry.
See the one above this post.