and this has to do with what boating???/

Backyard Renegade wrote:

Real funny, you, a intellectually dishonest man to say the least,
telling me what abortion is and means to women, what a joke you are.

I've read enough about the experiences of women and have heard of the
trauma of women going though an abortion to know that most of them get
over it, especially when the right-wing drooolers aren't trying to lay
some idiotic guilt trip on them.



You can slam my parenting skills all you want, but ask my kids
teachers how I have done as a stay home parent the last decade or so.
My oldest is in Japan teaching English after being on the Presidents
list all through college, my youngest has an IQ rated around 130 and
is "working well up to her potential" according to her teacher. I
sacrifice every day like anyone else to keep my kids in one of the
best funded school systems in the country. My middle daugher has a
great job at Signa...

So, what's your problem?



Correct, I am against abortion, but... I beleive
strongly in an adult womans right to choose, I beleive that being a
medical proceedure it should be available and also supported by tax
dollars as many other medical proceedures are, for those who choose it
as an option. I also beleive that like many other serious proceedures,
it should be preceeded by fair and informative information for the
patient. Not only that, I would not support ANY constitutional
admendment banning abortion, period, that in my mind would take away a
womans free will.


Yeah, so, why are you coming down so hard on women under 18? You think
they're all incapable and stupid?


Some christians not only don't quite live properly,
but also don't expect anyone else to either.

The more they publicly profess their "Christianity" and push it on
others, the less likely they are to be following the teachings of their
Savior.





Still, all of this is just fodder to avoid answering the real
question. Do you support a law that allows non related adults to take
someone else's daughter for an abortion without the parents knowledge
or concent?

Sure, if those parents are going to interfere in anyway with the desire
of the "daughter" to obtain an abortion.



JPS and you and the others are quick to slam me for
wanting to preserve only parental rights in the abortion issue, based
on one line taken out of context from a post I made over a year ago,


The "parental units" aren't pregnant here, the daughter is. The decision
should be between the young lady and her doctor.


so how do you feel about this issue yourself, c'mon Harry, JPS, answer
the question, show me some more of how "tolerant" you are?
Scott Ingersoll

I've already stated my opinion. If a young lady or woman wants to
terminate her pregnancy in a medically acceptable way, that's her business.




--
Email sent to is never read.

you guys are azzholes!%

Harry Krause wrote in message ...
Backyard Renegade wrote:

Real funny, you, a intellectually dishonest man to say the least,
telling me what abortion is and means to women, what a joke you are.

I've read enough about the experiences of women and have heard of the
trauma of women going though an abortion to know that most of them get
over it, especially when the right-wing drooolers aren't trying to lay
some idiotic guilt trip on them.

"Idiotic guilt trip?"

For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but
against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against
those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, and against
wicked spirits in the heavenly realms.
NLT Copyright 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against
principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of
this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly
places.
NKJV Copyright 1982 Thomas Nelson

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the
rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness,
against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}
NASB copyright 1995 Lockman Foundation

For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the
principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this
present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the
heavenly places.
RSV copyright info

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against
principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of
this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with
the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the
darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the
heavenly places;

because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against
principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of
this darkness, against spiritual [power] of wickedness in the
heavenlies.

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the
principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this
darkness, against the spiritual [hosts] of wickedness in the heavenly
[places].

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the
principalities, against the powers, against the world's rulers of the
darkness of this age, and against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in
the heavenly places.

quia non est nobis conluctatio adversus carnem et sanguinem sed
adversus principes et potestates adversus mundi rectores tenebrarum
harum contra spiritalia nequitiae in caelestibus

" the courage of men will fail. But not this day!"
The Lord of the Rings
Return of the King
December 2003

(Florida Keyz) wrote in message ...
you guys are azzholes!%

Yeah, when was the last time you had an on topic post. You have
written me off list and cried about OT here for over a year, why?

Harry Krause wrote in message news:bsil4u$d51ji$1@ID-


Yeah, so, why are you coming down so hard on women under 18? You think
they're all incapable and stupid?

You keep spinning it as simply "under 18", let's get the cards on the
table, let's set a number, like 13. OK, you say a 13 yo girl should be
able to get this medical proceedure without her parents permission or
knowledge, how about field trips? Should the school have to tell me
when they are taking my 13 yo out of town? How about plastic surgery,
dating, cerfews, should she be able to get in a car with her friends
dad and take off to New York on a weekend without her parents
permission? I mean, Harry, where do you draw the line, what age do
parents lose all rights to help their kids make decisions? 18, 13,
10??? Or is is just this one decision, abortion you want to apply this
to as it suits your personal agenda of not wanting anyone to be
accountable for anything?


Some christians not only don't quite live properly,
but also don't expect anyone else to either.

The more they publicly profess their "Christianity" and push it on
others, the less likely they are to be following the teachings of their
Savior.





Still, all of this is just fodder to avoid answering the real
question. Do you support a law that allows non related adults to take
someone else's daughter for an abortion without the parents knowledge
or concent?

Sure, if those parents are going to interfere in anyway with the desire
of the "daughter" to obtain an abortion.



JPS and you and the others are quick to slam me for
wanting to preserve only parental rights in the abortion issue, based
on one line taken out of context from a post I made over a year ago,


The "parental units" aren't pregnant here, the daughter is. The decision
should be between the young lady and her doctor.


so how do you feel about this issue yourself, c'mon Harry, JPS, answer
the question, show me some more of how "tolerant" you are?
Scott Ingersoll

I've already stated my opinion. If a young lady or woman wants to
terminate her pregnancy in a medically acceptable way, that's her business.

On 27 Dec 2003 20:29:45 -0800, (Backyard
Renegade) wrote:

Harry Krause wrote in message news:bsil4u$d51ji$1@ID-


Yeah, so, why are you coming down so hard on women under 18? You think
they're all incapable and stupid?

You keep spinning it as simply "under 18", let's get the cards on the
table, let's set a number, like 13. OK, you say a 13 yo girl should be
able to get this medical proceedure without her parents permission or
knowledge, how about field trips? Should the school have to tell me
when they are taking my 13 yo out of town? How about plastic surgery,
dating, cerfews, should she be able to get in a car with her friends
dad and take off to New York on a weekend without her parents
permission? I mean, Harry, where do you draw the line, what age do
parents lose all rights to help their kids make decisions? 18, 13,
10??? Or is is just this one decision, abortion you want to apply this
to as it suits your personal agenda of not wanting anyone to be
accountable for anything?

Good points. I'll be very surprised if you get anything more than
sarcasm or generalities from Harry, jps, et al.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

John H wrote:
On 27 Dec 2003 20:29:45 -0800, (Backyard
Renegade) wrote:

Harry Krause wrote in message news:bsil4u$d51ji$1@ID-


Yeah, so, why are you coming down so hard on women under 18? You think
they're all incapable and stupid?

You keep spinning it as simply "under 18", let's get the cards on the
table, let's set a number, like 13. OK, you say a 13 yo girl should be
able to get this medical proceedure without her parents permission or
knowledge, how about field trips? Should the school have to tell me
when they are taking my 13 yo out of town? How about plastic surgery,
dating, cerfews, should she be able to get in a car with her friends
dad and take off to New York on a weekend without her parents
permission? I mean, Harry, where do you draw the line, what age do
parents lose all rights to help their kids make decisions? 18, 13,
10??? Or is is just this one decision, abortion you want to apply this
to as it suits your personal agenda of not wanting anyone to be
accountable for anything?

Good points. I'll be very surprised if you get anything more than
sarcasm or generalities from Harry, jps, et al.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


There are too many instances of right-wing extremist parents forcing
their view of morality on minor girls, with devastating results. If a
13-year-old girl wants or needs an abortion, she should be able to get
one. If her parents want to help, fine. If not, tough darts: the courts
should immediately appoint someone to help the young lady.

The world doesn't need any more of the bigotry, hate and
small-mindedness spewed by right-wingers.

"Hello, Mrs. Gingrich? We have your 13-year-old daughter down here, and
she wants an abortion. Our doctor will perform it in 2 hours. Do you
want to come down here and provide her with support? YEs? Okay, be here
by 3 pm. If not, a friend of the court will help your daughter through
her time of need and the doctor will perform the surgery.

"And no, you cannot remove your pregnant daughter from the premises so
you can try to talk her out of this decision. This is her life, not yours."


How's that?


--
Email sent to is never read.

Harry Krause wrote in message ...
John H wrote:
On 27 Dec 2003 20:29:45 -0800, (Backyard
Renegade) wrote:

Harry Krause wrote in message news:bsil4u$d51ji$1@ID-


Yeah, so, why are you coming down so hard on women under 18? You think
they're all incapable and stupid?

You keep spinning it as simply "under 18", let's get the cards on the
table, let's set a number, like 13. OK, you say a 13 yo girl should be
able to get this medical proceedure without her parents permission or
knowledge, how about field trips? Should the school have to tell me
when they are taking my 13 yo out of town? How about plastic surgery,
dating, cerfews, should she be able to get in a car with her friends
dad and take off to New York on a weekend without her parents
permission? I mean, Harry, where do you draw the line, what age do
parents lose all rights to help their kids make decisions? 18, 13,
10??? Or is is just this one decision, abortion you want to apply this
to as it suits your personal agenda of not wanting anyone to be
accountable for anything?

Good points. I'll be very surprised if you get anything more than
sarcasm or generalities from Harry, jps, et al.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


There are too many instances of right-wing extremist parents forcing
their view of morality on minor girls, with devastating results. If a
13-year-old girl wants or needs an abortion, she should be able to get
one. If her parents want to help, fine. If not, tough darts: the courts
should immediately appoint someone to help the young lady.

The world doesn't need any more of the bigotry, hate and
small-mindedness spewed by right-wingers.

"Hello, Mrs. Gingrich? We have your 13-year-old daughter down here, and
she wants an abortion. Our doctor will perform it in 2 hours. Do you
want to come down here and provide her with support? YEs? Okay, be here
by 3 pm. If not, a friend of the court will help your daughter through
her time of need and the doctor will perform the surgery.

"And no, you cannot remove your pregnant daughter from the premises so
you can try to talk her out of this decision. This is her life, not yours."


How's that?


No good, you still will not answer any direct questions.