On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:41:45 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:49:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

My problem with boating and fishing mags is that they depend on the
ads for a living

=============================================

Its worse than that. They also depend on the builders and dealers for
test boats since they can't afford to buy them at retail. If they
start making unfavorable comments, the supply of test boats will dry
up very quickly.

Ok - my .02¢.

Because of time ahead and just-in-time design and production cycles,
it is almost impossible to react to consumer or critical evaluations
such that a better boat can be built incorporating those reviews.
What they can do is incorporate those design ideas forward in time,
but they cannot correct design flaws backward. And that's the major
problem.

I believe there is room for honest evaluation - you just have to work
at it, make arrangements with the manufacturers and force some issues.
Then maybe we'd get better boats for less money.

If I were still in the small boat market, I would have a boat custom
built. And I know where I would build it - Blue Fin Yachts over in
Bristol, RI. That way I could incorporate the ideas (like mounting
the fire extinguisher side ways instead of up and down) and other
things that make a good boat.

If pressed, I'd steal all the good ideas from Polar boats and have one
built by Blue Fin. :)

Later,

Tom

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...

You presumed to declare a motivation behind the article. You were wrong.

Well, I certainly don't know the circumstances behind the article, but is
sure has all the classic signs of a paid advertisement in disguise. You let
the manufacturer lead the discussion, talk only about the strong points,
don't provide any real facts or figures, include several statements that are
misleading, and don't ask any of the obvious questions the "inquiring minds"
would like to know.

This happens all the time. Many, if not all, magazines will trade an
article for either a direct payment or an agreement to run advertising, or
perhaps some other form of sponsership. I have created a new consumer
product and have been through all this. You pay the radio talk show host to
mention the product. You give Oprah one for herself, one for all her
friends, and one to give away on her show to get her to mention it. You pay
NBC big bucks to include one on their sit-com show and even write a show
that works it into the plot.

The marketing department writes "press releases" and sends them out to all
the relevant publications. We would write "articles" and send them out, and
they would get published word for word. We would even write our own
"interviews" and buy space in certain magazines.

Did your magazine actually conduct the interview, or did you just take copy
from the manufacturer? If you are really in a position to know, then I will
take it at your word. But don't be surprised if others doubt your story.

Rod

Did your magazine actually conduct the interview, or did you just take copy
from the manufacturer?

*I* personally conducted the interview.

Got a microcassette recorder? I'll send you the tape.

I believe that "lighter per amp hour" is accurate.

==========================================

Possibly a dangerous assumption since they are still lead-acid cells.


Some comparisons for you:

The 210-amp Meridian battery weighs 131 pounds. That calculates at 1.60 amps
per pound.

A 225-amp West Marine gel cell battery weighs 161 pounds, delivering only 1.39
amps per pound.

The 245-amp West Marine AGM battery weighs 158 pounds, rivaling but not
equaling the Meridian amp/pound output at 1.55 amps per pound.

The West Marine 12-volt flooded cell 8D is rated at 170 amps, and weighs 132
pounds. The equates to less than 1.29 amps per pound.

Without bothering to run a comparsion against every single battery on the
market,
it is possible to establish that these batteries are indeed "lighter per amp
hour"
(or, more amp hours per pound) than many batteries, including every variety of
8D Marine battery offered by the nation's largest marine retailer.

JimH,
I think Chuck might be out of the loop, and doesn't realize the magazines
sell these fluff pieces to anyone who wants to pay for them.

Wrong. I make 100% of the editorial decisions in the publication. Not exactly
"out of the loop".

What I can't figure out is why he is so upset about such a common practice.

Well then figure this out. First, I'm not "upset", just shocked that a guy who
doesn't know **** from shine about the situation presumes to insist that the
item was written to order and involves and advertising deal. You're just flat
wrong, John, Jon, whatever.... Insisting over and over again that you are
right, with *no* evidence other than your own insistence,
makes you look extremely silly.

Gould,
I hate to tell you this, but you are the one uniformed. The question is why
are you so upset if your publisher asked you to write a "fluff" article

My publisher seldom asks me to write anything. I have full editorial
discretion.
That's a concept you probably wouldn't understand, as all you can seem to write
are snide personal remarks about other people.

Why don't you get back over to the OT political threads where you belong, and
stop trying to pick fights and start personal arguments in an on-topic thread?

You want to bitch about my personal or political philosophies, fine. Do it
where it's appropriate. Trying to hijack a thread into a personal squabble is
*exactly* what your very favorite participant in the NG is famous for. Is part
of your fixation on that person a burning desire to emulate his behavior?

It sounded like all
of the "reviews" in boating magazines.


It wasn't a product review, it was an informational interview and represented
as such.

I'd think a guy who claims to be an expert
on writing and publishing, as well as a mind-reader, would know the difference.

On 17 Oct 2004 05:23:20 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
The 210-amp Meridian battery weighs 131 pounds. That calculates at 1.60 amps
per pound.

A 225-amp West Marine gel cell battery weighs 161 pounds, delivering only 1.39
amps per pound.

The 245-amp West Marine AGM battery weighs 158 pounds, rivaling but not
equaling the Meridian amp/pound output at 1.55 amps per pound.

The West Marine 12-volt flooded cell 8D is rated at 170 amps, and weighs 132
pounds. The equates to less than 1.29 amps per pound.

================================================== ==

Based on your numbers, it does look like the AGMs are delivering about
25% more power per pound. Significantly better, but not exactly a
break through. More telling in my mind is that the Meridian seems to
be about the same as other AGMs which is the appropriate criteria for
judging their claims. Getting a lot more capacity in the same space
as an 8D is certainly an attractive proposition regardless of power to
weight ratios. If they'd like to send me a couple, I'd be happy to
conduct some real world life cycle testing for them. :-)

SWS,

It sounds like you know what you are talking about, but what did I say was a
lie? It was all fluff with out really saying anything. When someone cuts
the gauge on metal, they put in "strengthen" ridges or corrugation type
folds to make up for lack of strength, hence "the unique process".

If someone is towing a boat with the family car, weight is important
consideration.

I don't think I lied, I just emphasized the positive and ignored the fact
that the T-Top will not be able to take a lot of excess stress, such as one
might find in strong winds or a careless boater grabbing the T-Top.





"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:58:52 GMT, "Jon Smithe"
wrote:

Tom,
What it would really read much more positive than that. Something along
the
lines of:
The beautiful lines of the Ranger T-Top will protect you from UV rays
while
you troll for those monster fish using the built in rod holders. The
T-Top
utilizes a unique process that allows Ranger to keep the weight as low as
possible, an important consideration for anyone who tows his boat using
the
family car.

In my experience, that would be considered an outright lie, but other
would be considered "truth".

Trust me on this. :)

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

Gould,

I thought your Fluff article was a well written PR piece that was worthy of
any boating magazine. I also believe the PR piece was a payoff for
advertising, both for buying past ads and future ads.

My guess is your "distributor or store" selling the product, contacted your
editor or sales dept. and said, he I have a great new product can you write
up a "review" of the product. They knew he was a good steady advertiser and
thought it would be a great way to fill up some pages and give your
advertiser something special for all of his ads. The editor or sales dept.
knows to refuse to do these PR articles can result in lost ad revenues going
to your competitors..

Now, if a distributor or store who never advertised in your magazine had
contacted your magazine for a fluff piece on a similar product I sincerely
doubt we would ever see the piece, unless he agreed to run some ads.

No need to be ashamed, you are in the business to make money, but don't fool
yourself into believing their is not a "payoff" for advertising..

Any reader of your magazine would know that this was not really a review,
but a nice PR article. It doesn't matter if it is a piece that is sent out
by the builder's PR dept, or a magazine who supplies the writer with a tape
recorder so he can repeat what the builder tells him, it is a fluff PR
piece.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
The magazines, the boat builders and suppliers, and most of the general
public know of the symbiotic relationship, I am surprised that no one
told
Gould about it.

Suddenly we're backpedaling from "a PR piece written in exchange for a
advertising commitment" to a "symbiotic relationship"?

Every aspect of any economy is a "symbiotic relationship."

Gould,

I was not trying to pick a fight with anyone, and was meant to support your
magazine position in running the infomercial.. I was responding to
someone's comment in which he said " Chuck, was that an advertisement? I
read a lot of nice words, but didn't
see any test results or other statistics to support the claims."

My reply was "It's a PR piece for a new product. "Articles" like this is
very common in
all boating magazines. .Normally they agree to run so many ads if the
magazine agrees to run the piece."

Your reply was "You don't know a goddam thing about boats, and don't even
begin to
insinuate you know anything about boating magazines."
In other posts you continue to make personal insults and were trying to pick
a fight. I continued to keep the discussion on topic about boating
magazines.

As far as you comment about the editor asking you to write the piece, didn't
you say your editor asked you to give the president of the company a call?
If not, how did you hear about the product and get the presidents name and
telephone number so you 'interview" him?

Even though you obviously was the one trying to start a fight, I have
deliberately stayed away from a fight and keep the discussion on topic.

As you can see from the all other replies everyone agreed that this is the
typical well written PR piece run by boating magazines.

Again, I am amazed at how upset you became when I made my supporting
comment. I have done everything to keep this on a discussion about boating
magazines, you have made this into a discussion of personalities and not
issues. According to your standards, repeated often in this NG, that is
only done when someone believes they have lost the argument.





"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Gould,
I hate to tell you this, but you are the one uniformed. The question is
why
are you so upset if your publisher asked you to write a "fluff" article

My publisher seldom asks me to write anything. I have full editorial
discretion.
That's a concept you probably wouldn't understand, as all you can seem to
write
are snide personal remarks about other people.

Why don't you get back over to the OT political threads where you belong,
and
stop trying to pick fights and start personal arguments in an on-topic
thread?

You want to bitch about my personal or political philosophies, fine. Do it
where it's appropriate. Trying to hijack a thread into a personal squabble
is
*exactly* what your very favorite participant in the NG is famous for. Is
part
of your fixation on that person a burning desire to emulate his behavior?

It sounded like all
of the "reviews" in boating magazines.


It wasn't a product review, it was an informational interview and
represented
as such.

I'd think a guy who claims to be an expert
on writing and publishing, as well as a mind-reader, would know the
difference.